sunt Nam intantum se Catholicos judicant ut nos ipsos titulo Haereticae praevitatis infament quod ergo illi nobis sunt hoc nos illis They are hereticks but they know it not they are hereticks unto us but not unto themselves for they so far judge themselves to be Catholick that they condemn us for the guilt of Heresie So then what they are to us that we are to them Especilly was your whole practice in this matter solemnly condemned in the Case of Priscillianus recorded by Sulpitius Severus in the end of his second Book the only Instance the Bellarmine could fix upon in all Antiquity for the putting of any men to death upon the account of Religion for the other whom he mentions he confesseth himself to have been a Magitian Ithacius with some other Bishops his Associates procured Maximus the Tyrant to put Priscillianus a Gnosticke with some others to death and to banish some of their followers What saith the Historian thereon Hoc modo saith he homines luce indignissimi pessimo exemplo necati aut exili is mulctati On this manner were those unworthy wretches either slain or punished by banishment by a very evil precedent And what was the success of this zeal Non solum saith he non repressest haeresis sed confirmata latius propagata The heresis was so farre from being repressed by it that it was the more confirmed and propagated And what ensued hereupon in the Church its self Inter nostros perpetuum discordiarum bellum exarsit quod jam per quindecim annos foedis dissensionibus agitatum nullo modo sopiri poterat Et nunc cum maximè discordiis Episcoporum turbari â—isceri omnia cernerentur cunctáque per eos odio aut gratia metu inconstantia invidia factione avâ—aritâ—a arrogantia somno desidia essent depravata postremo plures adver sum paucos bâ—nè consulentes insanis consiliis pertinacibus studiis certabant Inter haec plebs Dei optimus quisque probro atque ludibrio habebatur With which words he shuts up his Ecclesiasticall story Amongst ours a lasting war of discord was kindled which after it hath now for fifteen years been carried on with shamefull contentions can by no means be allayed And now especially when all things appear to be troubled and perverted by the discord of the Bishops and that all things are depraved by them through hatred favour fear inconstancy envy faction covetousuess pride sleepiness and sloth the most with mad counsels and pertinacious endeavours opposing themselves to the sew that are better advised Amongst all these things the people of God and every honest man is become a reproach and scorn Thus that Historian complaining of the consequents of this proceeding But good men lest not the matter so Martinus Turonensis presently refuseth all communion with them who had any hand in the death or banishment of the persons mentioned So doth Ambrose declare himself to have done Epist. 27. as did the rest of the sober godly Bishops of those dayes At length both Ithacius and Idacius the promoters of this work were solemnly excommunicated though one of them had before for very shame foregone his Bishoprick See Prosp. Chron. 389. and I sidore de Viris Illustribus So that here also the judgment and practice of your Church which she is fallen into is publickly eondemned and written against 1300 years ago Should I insist on all the Testimonies that of this kind might be produced Antè diem clauso componet vesper olympo than I could make an end of them I have added this Instance to the former as knowing them to be the two great pillars on which the tottering fabrick of your Church is raised and which if they were removed the whole of it would quickly fall to the ground and you see how long ago they were both publickly condemned 3. Your Papall Oecumenicall Supremacy hath two main Branches 1. Your Popes spirituall Power over all Persons and Churches in the things of Religion 2. His Power over Emperors Kings and Potentates in reference unto Religion or as you speak in ordine ad spiritualia The first your Church stumbled into by many degrees from the dayes of Victor who made the first notable halt to this purpose The latter you stumbled into in the dayes of Gregory the seventh or Hildebrand It were endless to declare how this fall of your Church hath been declared written against opposed condemned by Churches Councels Fathers Princes and learned men in all Ages Some few evidences to this purpose to satisfie your request I shall direct you unto It was written against and condemned by Cyprian Bishop of Carthage and that in a Councell at Carthage an 258. upon an attempt made by Stephen Bishop of Rome looking in some small degree towards that usurped Supremacy which afterwards was attained unto You may if you please there see him rebuked and the practice of your Church condemned The same Cyprian had done no less before in reference unto some actings of Cornelius the predecessor of Stephen Epist. ad Cornel. Though the pretensions of Cornelius and Stephen were modest in comparison of your present vast Claim yet the Churches of God in those dayes could not bear them It is prejudged in the most famous Councell of Nice which assigned bounds unto the Jurisdiction of Bishops giving to severall of them equall Authority Can. 6. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Let the ancient Customes be observed that as to Egypt Lybia and Pentapolis the Bishop of Alexandria have power over them or the Churches in them for so is the custome of the Bishop of Rome that is to have power over the adjoyning Churches likewise about Antioch and in other Provinces that the ancient Rights of the Churches be preserved Your Great Pope whom you so frequently call the Pastor of Christendome was here but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Bishop in the City or Church of Rome or of the Church in the City of Rome And bounds are assigned unto the Authority which he claimed by custome as to his of Alexandria and Antioch It is true the Church of Alexandria hath some power assigned ascribed or granted unto it above other Churches of Egypt Lybâ—a and Pentapolis for a warranty whereof the usage of the Roman Church in reference unto her neighbour Churches is made use of which to deal freely with you and to tell you my private thoughts was a confirmation of a disorder by your example which you were from that day forward seldome wanting to give plenty of So to this purpose Concil Antioch Can. 13 and 15. an 341. Concil Constantinop Can 2. an 381. But this Canon of the Nicene Fathers openly condemneth and is perfectly destructive of your at present claimed Supremacy Three Councels together in Africk within the space of twenty years warned your Church of her fall into this Heresie and opposed her attempts for the promotion of it The first at Carthage an 407. which
as though it could be seen or expressed by colours but for some other end as it seems for their instruction which indeed is honest and fair dealing for they plainly tell them that by their pictures they teach them lyes the language of the Picture being that God may be so pictured whereby all your pictures and Images of God the Father as an old man of the Trinity as one person with three faces and the Holy Ghost as a Dove are approved 2. Religious Worship of Images is confirmed due honour and veneration or worship is to be given unto them saith the Council Now it is not mutual complement they are discoursing about There is no such intercourse between their Images and them ordinarily though sometimes civil salutations have passed between them Nor is it any token of Civil Subjection for Images have no eminency or authority of that kind but it is divine or religious veneration and worship which they affirm is to be assigned unto them 3. They say that due honour and veneration that is religious is to be assigned unto them but what in especial that honour and worship is they do not determine whither it be the same that is due to the sâ—mplar as some the most of your Divines think or whether it be an honour of some inferiour nature as others contend pugnant ipsi ne potesq the Synod leaves them where it found them sufficiently at variance among themselves 4. They further assert the worship that is given by them to Images to be religious or divine in that they affirm the honour done to the Image is referâ—ed unâ—â—â—he Prototype which it doth represent Now suppose this be Jesus Christ himself I suppose that they will grant that all the honour we yield to him by any way or means is divine or religious and therefore so consequently that which they would have to be given unto his Image that is a stock or stone which they fancy so to be must be so aâ—so Now Sir you may see from hence what it is that you are to speak unto and to defend or else to hold your peace in this matter And I shall yet make it a little more plain unto you Your Trent Council approves and commends the second Council of Nice as that which taught and confirmed that Doctrine and practice about Images and their Worship which your Church allows I shall therefore briefly let you know what was the judgement of that Council and what was the Doctrine and Practice confirmed in it under many dreadful Anathematisms This Second of Nice or Pseudo-Synod of the Greeks as it is called by the Council of Frankford whereunto we are sent by the Tridentine Fathers to be instructed in the due Worship of Images was assembled by the Authority of Irene the Empress a proud imperious woman her Son Constantine whose eys she afterwards put out and thrust him into a Monastery in the year 490. Tharasius was then Patriarch of Constantinoples and Hadrian the first Bishop or Pope of Rome This man most zealously or superstitiously addicted unto the worship of Images and that contrary to the judgement of most of the Western Churches as soon afterwards appeared in the Council holden at Frankford by the Authority of Charls the Great had a particular advantage both over the Empress and the Patriarch of Constantinople The Eastern Empire being then greatly weakened by its own intestine divisions and pressed on all sides by the Saracens the Empress began to entertain some hopes of relies from the French in the West whose power was then grown very great and to that end sollicited a marriage for her Son with the daughter of Charls the great and supposed that she might be helped therein by the mediation of Hadrian the Bishops of Rome having no small hand in the promotion of the attempt of Pipin and Charls the Great for the Crown of France and afterwards for the conquest of Italy and Germany And besides she was a woman her self zealously addicted to that kind of superstition which Hadrian had espoused as having in the time of Leo her Husband kept her Images in private contrary unto what she had solemnly sworn unto her Father as Credenus relates in his Annals As for Tarasius he was contrary to all Ecclesiastical Canons of a meer Lay-man at once per saltum made Patriarch of Constantinople which Hadrian upon his first hearing of greatly exclaimed against and refused to receive him into the society of Patriarchs upon his sending of his significatory Epistle This is fully declared in the Epistle of Hadrian extant in the Acts of the Council But yet afterwards bethinking himself how usefull this man might be unto his design in getting the worship of Images established in the East he declares that if he will use means to get the Heresie as he called it of the Image-opposers extirpated and their veneration established he would consent to his Election and Consecration or else not Finding how the matter was like to go with him this Lay-Patriarch undertakes the work and effectually prosecutes it in this Synod assembled at Nice by the Authority of Irence the Empress and her Son Constantine But by the way when the Council was assembled he omitted not the opportunity of improving his own interest getting himself stiled Oecumenical or Vniversal Patriarch which Anastasius Bibliothecarius in his dedication of his Translation of the Acts of this Convention unto John the eighth bewayles and ascribes it unto the flattery of the Greeks The frauds forgeries and follies of this Council and ignorance and dotage of the Fathers of it have been sufficiently by others discovered Our present concernment is only to enquire First What they taught concerning Image Worship and Secondly How they proved what they taught seeing unto them we are sent by the Tridentine Decree to be instructed in your faith in this matter First They make the having and use of Images in the Worship of God of indispensible necessity so that they anathematize and cast out of the Communion of the Church all that refuse to receive and use them according to their prescript Yea they proceed so far as in their approbation of the Confession of Theodosius the Bishop of Ammoria as to denounce an Anathema against them that do but doubt of their reception 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so he closeth his Confession which they all approve as Orthodox Anathema to them that are ambiguous or doubtful in their minds and do not confess with their hearts ex animo that Sacred Images are to be worshipped wherein they and and you with them add Schism to their Idolatry casting out of the Churches those who offend neither against the Gospel nor the determination of any General Council of old making the Rule of your Communion to consist in a sorry piece of Will-worship of your own invention which doubles the crime of your Superstition and layes an intolerable intanglement upon the Consciences of men which are perswaded from the
in a short time to take off from your keenness in the management of this Charge For I hope you will allow that a man may speak the truth without being a Fanatick truth may get hatred I see it hath done so but it will make no man hatefull Without looking back then to your Fiat Lux I shall out of this very Epistle give you to see that you have certainly failed on the one hand in writing about things which you do not at all understand and therefore discourse concerning them like a blind man about colours and as I fear greatly also on the other for I cannot suppose you so ignorant as not to know that some things in your discourse are otherwise than by you represented Nay and we shall find you at express contradictions which pretend what you please I know you cannot at the same time believe Instances of these things you will be minded of in our progress Now I must needs be very unhappy in discoursing of them if this be Logick and Law that for so doing I must be concluded a Fanatick Fourthly You adde Your pert Assertion so oft occurring in your Book that there is neither reason truth nor honesty in my words is but the overflowings of that former intemperate zeal whereunto may be added what in the last place you insist on to the same purpose namely that I charge you with fraud ignorance and wickedness when in my own heart I find you most clear from any such blemish I do not remember where any of those expressions are used by me that they are no where used thus altogether I know well enough neither shall I make any enquiry after them I shall therefore desire you only to produce the instances whereunto any of the censures intimated are annexed and if I do not prove evidently and plainly that to be wanting in your discourse which is charged so to be I will make you a publick acknowledgement of the wrong I have done you But if no more was by me expressed than your words as used to your purpose did justly deserve pray be pleased to take notice that it is lawfull for any man to speak the truth And for my part 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as he said in Lucian I live in the Countrey where they call a Spade a Spade And if you can give any one instance where I have charged you with any failure where there is the least probability that I had in my heart other thoughts concerning what you said I will give up my whole interest in this cause unto you Mala mens malus animus You have manifested your conscience to be no just measure of other mens who reckon upon their giving an account of what they do or say So that you have but little advanced your Charge by these undue insinuations Neither have you any better success in that which in the next place you insist upon which yet were it not like the most of the rest destitute of truth would give more countenance unto your reflection than them all It is that I give you sharp and frequent menaces that if you write or speak again you shall hear more find more feel more more to your smart more than you imagine more than you would which relish much of that insulting humour which the Land groaned under I suppose no man reads this representation of my words with the addition of your own which makes up the greatest part of them but must needs thinks that you have been sorely threatned with some personall inconveniencies which I would cause to befall you did you not surcease from writing or that I would obtain some course to be taken with you to your prejudice Now this must needs savour of the spirit of our late dayes of trouble and mischief or at least of the former dayes of the prevalency of Popery amongst us when men were not wont in such cases to take up at bare threats and menaces If this be so all men that know the Author of the Animadversions and his condition must needs conclude him to be very foolish and wicked foolish for threatning any with that which is as far from his power to execute as the person threatned can possibly desire it to be wicked for designing that evil unto any individuall person which he abhorres in hypothesi to be inflicted on any upon the like account But what if there be nothing of all this in the pretended menaces What if the worst that is in them be only part of a desire that you would abstain from insisting on the personall miscarriages of some that profess the Protestant Religion lest he should be necessitated to make a diversion of your Charge or to shew the insufficiency of it to your purpose by recounting the more notorious failings of the Guides Heads and Leaders of your Church If this be so as it is in truth the whole intendment of any of those expressions that are used by me for the most part of them are your own figments whereever they occurre what Conclusion can any rationall man make from them Do they not rather intimate a desire of the use of moderation in these our contests and an abstinence from things personall for which cause also fruitlesly as I now perceive by this your new kind of ingenuity and moderation I prefixed not my Name to the Animadversions which you also take notice of than any evil intention or design This was my threatning you to which now I shall adde that though I may not say of these Papers what Catullus did of his Verses on Rufus Verum id non impunè feceres nam te omnia secla Noscent qui sis fama loquitur anus Yet I shall say that as many as take notice of this discourse will do no less of your disingenuity and manifold falshood in your vain attempt to relieve your dying Cause by casting odium upon him with whom you have to do like the Bonassus that Aristotle informs us of Hist. Animal lib. 9. cap. 24. which being as big as a Bull but having horns turned inward and unusefull for fight when he is persued casts out his excrements to defile his persuers and to stay them in their passage But what now is the End in all this heap of things which you would have mistaken for Reasons that you aym at it is all to shew how unfit I am to defend the Protestant Religion and that I am not such a Protestant as I would be thought to be But why so I embrace the Doctrine of the Church of England as declared in the 29 Articles and other approved publick writings of the most famous Bishops and other Divines thereof I avow her rejection of the pretended Authority and reall Errours of the Church to be her duty and justifiable The same is my judgment in reference unto all other Protestant Churches in the world in all things wherein they agree among themselves which is in all things necessary that
liveth still his Word abideth still but the planters and waterers are dead long ago Again What though we received the Gospell from Rome doth it therefore follow that we received all the Doctrines of the present Church of Rome at the same time Pope Gregory knew little of the present Romane Doctrine about the Pope of Rome What was broached of it he condemned in another even John of Constantinople who fasted for a kind of Popedome and professed himself an obedient servant to his good Lord the Emperour Many a good Doctrine hath been lost at Rome since those old dayes and many a new fancy broached and many a tradition of men taught for a doctrine of truth Hipolyte sic est Thesâ—i vultus amo Illos priores quos tulit quondam puer Quum prima puras barba signaret genas Et ora flavus tenera tingebat rubor We love the Church of Rome as it was in its purity and integrity in the dayes of her youth and chastity before she was deflowred by false worship but what is that to the present Roman carnall confederacy If then any in this Nation did receive their Religion from Rome as many of the Saxons had Christianity declared unto them by some sent from Rome for that purpose yet it doth not at all follow that they received the present Religion of Rome Hei mihi qualis quantum mutatur ab illa which of old she prosessed Multa dies variusque labor mutabilis aevi Rettulit in pejus And this sad alteration declension and change we may bewail in her as the Prophet did the like apostacy in the Church of the Jews of old How is the faithfull City become an harlot it was full of judgement righteousness lodged in it but now murderers thy silver is become dross thy wine mixt with water He admires that it should be so was not ignorant how it became so no more are others in reference unto your Apostacy And what if we had received from you or by your means the Religion that is now professed at Rome I mean the whole of it yet we might have received that with it namely the Bible which would have made it our duty to examine try and reject any thing in it for which we saw from thence just cause so to do unless we should be condemned for that for which the Bereans are so highly commended So that neither is your Position true nor if it were so would it at all advantage your pretensions I adde also Did not the Gospel come from another place to Rome as well as to us or was it first preached there This you have culled out as supposing your self able to say something unto it and what is it Properly speaking it came not so to Rome as it came to us for one of the twelve fountains nay two of the thirteen and those the largest and greatest were transferred to Rome which they watered with their blood We had never any such standing fountain of our Christian Religion here but only a stream derived unto us from thence It is the hard hap it seems of England to claim any priviledge or reputation that may stand in the way of some mens designs No Apostle nor Apostolicall Person must be allowed to preach the Gospel unto us lest we should peirk up into competition with Rome But though Rome it seems must alwayes be excepted yet I hope you do not in generall conclude our condition beneath that of any place where the Gospel at first was preached by one or two Apostles so as to cry Properly speaking it came not to us at all What think you of Jerusalem where Christ himself and his twelve Apostles all of them preached the Gospel Or what think you of Capernaum that was lifted up to Heaven in the priviledge of the means of light granted for a while unto them Do you think our condition worse than theirs The two fountains you mention were opened at Antioch in Syria as well as at other places before they conveyed one drop of their treasures to Rome which whether one of them ever did by his personall presence is very questionable And by this Rule of yours though England may not yet every place where S t Peter and St Paul preached the Gospel may contend with Rome as to this priviledge And what will you then get by your trumphing over us Non vides id manticae quòd à tergo est When men are intent upon a supposed advantage they oftentimes overlook reall inconveniencies that lye ready to seize upon them as it befalls you more than once Besides there is nothing in the world more obscure than by whom or by what means the Gospel was first preached at Rome By S t Paul it is certain it was not for before ever he came thither there was a great number converted to the faith as appears from his Epistle written about the fourteenth year of Claudius and the fifty third of Christ. Nor yet by Peter for not at present to insist on the great incertainty whether ever he was there or no which shall afterwards be spoken unto there is nothing more certain than that about the sixth year of Claudius and fourty fifth of Christ he was at Antioch Gal. 2. Baronius makes the third of Claudius and the fourty fifth of Christ to contemporize but upon a mistake and some say he abode there a good while sundry years and that upon as good authority as any is produced for his coming to Rome But it is generally granted that there was a Church founded at Rome that year but by whom 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as Socrates said of the preference of the condition of the living or dead is known to God alone of mortall men not to any Jam sumus ergo pares For to confess the truth unto you I know not certainly who first preached the Gospel in Brittain some say Peter some Paul some Simon Zelotes most Joseph of Arimathea as I have elsewhere shewed by whom certainly I know not but some one it was or more whom God sent upon his arrand and with his message No more do you know who preached it first at Rome though in generall it appears that some of them at least were of the Circumcision whence the very first Converts of that Church were variously minded about the observation of Mosaicall Rites and Ceremonies And I doubt not but God in his infinitely holy wisdome and providence left the springs of Christian Religion as to matter of fact in the first introductions of it into the Nations of the world in so much darkness as to the knowledge of after-times to obviate those towring thoughts of preheminency which he foresaw that some men from externall advantages would entertain to the no small prejudice of the simplicity of the Gospel and ruine of Christian humility As far as appears from Story the Gospel was preached in England before any Church was founded at Rome It was so saith Gildas Summo
tempore Tiberii Caesaris that is extremo about the end of the raigh of Tiberius Caesar who died in the thirty ninth year of Christ five or six years at least before the foundations of the Roman-Church were layed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 These things we must speak unto because you suppose them of importance unto your Cause The second Assertion ascribed unto your Fiat in the Animadversions is That whence and from whom we first received our Religion there and with them we must abide therein to them we must repair for guidance and return to their rule and conduct if we have departed from them To which you now say This Principle as it is never delivered by Fiat Lux though you put it upon me so is it in the latitude it carries and wherein you understand it absolutely false never thought of by me and indeed impossible For how can we abide with them in any truth who may not perhaps abide in it themselves Great part of Flanders was first converted by English men and yet are they not obliged to accompany the English in our now present wayes I am glad you confess this Principle now to be false it was sufficiently proved so to be in the Animadversions and your whole Discourse rendred thereby useless For to what purpose will the preceding Assertion so often incuicated by you serve if this be false For what matter is it from whence or whom wereceive the profession of Religion if there be no obligation upon us to continue in their communion any further than as we judge them to continue in the truth And to what purpose do you avoid the consideration of the Reasons and Causes of our not abiding with you and manage all your Charge upon the generall head of our departure if we may have just cause by your own concession so to do It is false then by your own acknowledgement and I am as sure in the sense which I understand it in that it is yours And you labour with all your art to prove and confirm it both in your Fiat pag. 44 45 46 47. and in this very Epistle pag. 38 39 40 41 c. On the account that the Gospel came unto us from Rome you expresly adjudge the preheminence over us unto Rome and determine that her we must all hear and obey and abide with But if you may say and unsay assert and deny avow and disclaim at your pleasure as things make for your advantage and think to evade the owning of the whole drift and scope of your Discourse by having expressed your self in a loose flourish of words it will be to no great purpose further to talk with you Quo teâ—eam vultus mutantem Protea nodo To lay fast hold and not startle at a new shape was the counsell his daughter gave to Menelaus And I must needs urge you to leave off all thoughts of evading by such changes of your hue and to abide by what you say I confess I believe you never intended knowingly to assert this Principle in its whole latitude because you did not as it should seem consider how little it would make for your advantage seeing so many would come in for a share in the priviledge intimated in it with your Roman Church and you do not in any thing love competitors But you would fain have the Conclusion hold as to your Roman Church only those that have received the Gospel from her must alwayes abide in her communion That this Assertion is not built on any generall foundation of Reason or Authority your self now confess And that you have no speciall priviledge to plead in this Cause hath been proved in the Animadversions whereof you are pleased to take no notice CHAP. IV. Further Vindication of the first Chapter of the Animadversions Church of Rome not what she was of old Her Falls and Apostacy Difference between Idolatry Apostacy Heresie and Schism Principles of the Church of Rome condemned by the antient Church Fathers and Councels Imposing Rites unnecessary Persecution for Conscience Papall Supremacy The Branches of it Papall Personall Infallibility Religious veneration of Images THe third Assertion which you review is That the Roman profession of Religion and practice in the worship of God are every way the same as when first we received the Gospel from Rome nor can they ever otherwise be whereunto you say This indeed though I do no where formally express it yet I suppose it because I know it hath been demonstratively proved a hundred times over You deny it hath been proved why do you not then disprove it because you decline say you all common places All that I affirmed was that you did suppose this Principle and built many of your Inferences on the supposition thereof which you here acknowledge And so you have already owned two of the Principles whereof in the foregoing Page you affirmed that you could hardly own any one and that in the sense wherein by me they are proposed and understood But what do you mean that you no where formally express it If you mean that you have not set it down in those syllables wherein you find it expressed in the Animadversions no man ever said you did you do not use to speak so openly and plainly To do so would bring you out of the corners which somewhat that you pretend unto never lead you into But if you deny that you asserted and laboured to prove the whole and entire matter of it your following Discourse wherein you endeavour a vindication of the Sophisme wherewith you pleaded for it in your Fiat will sufficiently confute you And so you have avowed already two of the hardly any one Principles ascribed unto you And this you say hath been demonstratively proved an hundred times over and ask me why I do not disprove it giving a ridiculous Answer as from me unto your Enquiry But pray S r talk not of Demonstrations in this matter palpable Sophismes such as your Masters use in this Cause are far enough from Demonstrations And if you think it enough for you to say that it hath been proved why is it not a sufficient Answer in me to remind you that it hath been disproved and your pretended proofs all refuted And according to what Rules of Logick do you expect Arguments from me to disprove your Assertion whilest I was only answering yours that you produced in its confirmation But that you may not complain any more I shall make some addition of the proofs you require by way of supererrogation when we have considered your vindication of your former Arguments for the confirmation of this Assertion wherewith you closed your Discourse in your Fiat Lux. This you thus propose again The Roman was once a true flourishing Church and if she ever fell she must fall either by Apostasie Heresie or Schisme So you now mince the matter in your Fiat it was a most pure flourishing and Mother Church and you know there are many that yet
abode of Peter there never once mentions him in any of the Epistles which from thence he wrote unto the Churches and his fellow labourers though he doth remember very many others that were with him in the City 7. He asserts that in one of his Epistles from thence which as I think sufficiently proves that Peter was not then there for he saies plainly that in his triall he was forsaken by all men that no man stood by him which he mentions as their sin and prays for pardon for them Now no man can reasonably think that Peter was amongst the number of them whom he complained of 8. The Story is not consistent with what is expresly written of Peter by Luke in the Acts and Paul in his Epistle to the Galatians Paul was converted unto the faith about the 38 th year of Christ or 5 th after his Ascension After this he continued 3 years preaching the Gospel about Damascus and in Arabia In the 40 th or 41 st year of Christ he came to Jerusalem to conferr with Peter Gal. 1. which was the first of Claudius As yet therefore Peter was not removed out of Judaea 14 years after that is either after his first going up to Jerusalem or rather 14 years after his first Conversion he went up again to Jerusalem and found Peter still there which was in the 52 d year of Christ and the 13 th of laudius Or if you should take the date of the 14 years mentioned by him shorter by 5 or 6 years and reckon their beginning from the passion and Resurrection of Christ which is not improbable then this going up of Paul to Hierusalem will be found to be the same with his going up to the Councel from Antioch about the 6 th or rather 7 th year of Claudius Peter was then yet certainly at Hierusalem That is about the 46 th year of Christ some while after you would have the Church to be founded by him at Rome After this when Paul had taken a long progress through many Countreys wherein he must needs spend some years returning unto Antioch Act. 18. 22. he there again met with Peter Gal. 2. 11. Peter being yet still in the East to wards the end of the Raign of Claudius At Antioch where Paul found him if any of your Witnesses may be believed he abode 7 years Besides he was now very old and ready to lay down his mortality as our Lord had shewed him and in all probability after his remove from Antioch spent the residue of his dayes in the Eastern Dispersion of the Jews For 9 ly much of the Apostles work in Palestine among the Jews was now drawing to an end the elect being gathered in troubles were growing upon the Nation and Peter had as we observed before agreed with Paul to take the Care of the Circumcision of whom the greatest number by far excepting only Judaea its self was in Babylon and the Eastern Nations about it Now whether these and the like observations out of the Scripture concerning the Course of S t Peters life be not sufficient to out-ballance the Testimony of your disagreeing Witnesses impartial and unprejudiced men may judge For my part I do not intend to conclude peremptorily from them that Peter was never at Rome or never preached the Gospel there but that your Assertion of it is improbable and built upon very Questionable grounds that I suppose I may safely conclude And God forbid that we should once imagine the present faith of Christians or their Profession of Christian Religion to be built upon such uncertain Conjectures or to be concerned in them whether they be true or false Nothing can be spoken with more reproach unto it than to say that it stands in need of such supportment And yet if this one Supposition fail you all your building falls to the ground in a moment Never was so stupendous a fabrick raised on such imaginary foundations But that we may proceed Let us suppose this also that Peter was at Rome and preached the Gospel there What will thence follow unto your advantage what towards the settlement of any man in Religion or bringing us unto the Unity of faith the things enquired after He was at he preached the Gospel at Hierusalem Samaria Joppa Antioch Babylon and sundry other places and yet we find no such Consequences pleaded from thence as you urge from his Coming to Rome Wherefore you adde 1 V. That St Peter was Bishop of the Roman Church that he fixed his seat there and there he died In gathering up your Principles I follow the footsteps of Bellarmine Baronius and other great Champions of your Church so that you cannot except against the method of our proposals of them Now this Conclusion is built on these three Suppositions 1. That Peter had an Episcopal Office distinct from his Apostolical 2. That he was at Rome 3. That he fixed his Episcopal Sea there whereof the Second is very Questionable the First and Last are absolutely false So that the Conclusion its self must needs be a notable fundamentall Principle of Faith It is true and I shewed it before that the Apostles when they came into any Church did exercise all the Power of Bishops in and over that Church but not as Bishops but as Apostles As a King may in any of the Cities of his dominions where he comes exercise all the Authority of the Mayor or particular Governour of that place where he is which yet doth not make him become the Mayor of the place which would be a diminution of his royall Dignity No more did the Apostles become Local Bishops because of their exercising Episcopal Power in any particular Church by virtue of their Authority Apostolical wherein that other was included as hath been declared And Cui Bono to what purpose serves this fictitious Episcopacy All the Priviledges that you contend for the Assignation of unto Peter were beâ—â—owed upon him as an Apostle or as a believing disciple of Christ. As such he had those peculiar grants made unto him The Keys of the Kingdome of heaven were given unto him as an Apostle or according to S t Austin as a believer as such was he commanded to feed the sheep of Christ. It was unto him as an Apostle or a professing believer that Christ promised to build the Church on the faith that he had professed You reckon all these things among the priviledges of Peter the Apostle who as such is said to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or first in order As an Apostle he had the Care of all Churches committed unto him As an Apostle he was divinely inspired and enabled infallibly to reveal the mind of Christ. All these things belonged unto him as an Apostle and what Priviledge he could have besides as a Bishop neither you nor I can tell no more than you can when how or by whom he was called and ordained unto any such office all which we know well enough concerning
God in his Word than unto these Principles of yours is rejected by you out of the limits of the Catholick Church that is of Christianity for they are the same To make good your judgement and censure then you vent endless Cavils against the Authority Perfection and Perspicuity of the Scriptures pretending to despise and scorn whatever is offered in their viâ—dication This rope of Sand composed â— false suppositions groundless presumptions inconsequent inferences in all which there is not one word of infallible Truth at least that you can any way make appear so to be is the great Bond you use to gird men withall into the Unity of Faith In brief you tell us that if wee will all submit to the Pope wee shall be sure all to agree But this is no more but as I have before told you what every party of men in the world tender us upon the same or the like condition It is not a meer agreement wee aym at but an agreement in the Truth not a meer Vnity but a Unity of Faith and Faith must be built on Principles infallible or it will prove in the close to have been fancy not Faith carnall imagination not Christian belief otherwise wee may agree in Turcism or Judaism or Paganism as well as in Christianity and to as good purpose Now what of this kind do you tender unto us Would you have us to leave the sure word of Prophesie more sure than a voyce from Heaven the Light shining in the dark places of this world which wee are commanded to attend unto by God himself the Holy Scripture given by Inspiration which is able to make us wise unto Salvation the Word that is perfest sure right converting the Soul enlightning the eyes making wise the simple whose observation is attended with great reward to give heed yea to give up all our Spirituall and eternall concernments to the credit of old groundless uncertain Stories inevident presumptions fables invented for and openly improved unto carnal secular and wicked ends Is your request reasonable Would wee could prevail with you to cease your importunity in this matter especially considering â—the dangerous consequence of the admission of these your Principles unto Christianity in generall For if it be so that S t Peter had such an Episcopacy as you talk of and that a continuance of it in a Succession by the Bishops of Rome be of that indispensable necessity unto the preservation of Christian Religion as is pretended many men considering the nature and quality of that Succession how the means of its continuation have been arbitrarily and occasionally changed what place formerly popular Suffrage and the Imperial Authority have had in it how it came to be devolved on a Conclave of Cardinals what violence and tumults have attended one way what briberies and filthy respects unto the lusts of unclean Persons the other what Interruptions the Succession it self hath had by vacancies Schisms and contests for the place and uncertainty of the Person that had the best right unto the Popedome according to the customes of the dayes wherein he lived and that many of the Persons who have had a place in the pretended Succession have been plainly men of the world such as cannot receive the Spirit of Christ yea open enemies unto his Cross would find just cause to suspect that Christianity were utterly failed many Ages ago in the world which certainly would not much promote the Settlement in Truth and Unity of Faith that we are enquiring after And this is the first way that you propose to supply that Defect which you charge upon the Scripture that it is insufficient to reconcile men that are at variance about Religion and settle them in the Truth And if you are able by so many uncertainties and untruths to bring men unto a Certainty and Scttlement in the Truth you need not despair of compassing and thing that you shall have a mind to attempt But you have yet another Plea which you make no less use of than of the former which must therefore be also now you have engaged us in this work a little examined This is the Church its Authority and Infallibilâ—ty The truth is when you come to make a practical Application of this Plea unto your own use you resolve it into and confound it with that foregoing of the Pope in whom solely many of you would have this Authority and Infallibility of the Church to reside Yet because in your mannagement of it you proceed on other Principles than those before mentioned this pretence also shall be apart considered And here you tell us 1. That the Church was before the Scripture and giveth Authority unto it By the Scriptures you know that wee understand the Word of God with this â—ne Adjunct of its being written by his command and appointment We do not say that it belongs unto the Essence of the Word of God that it be written Whatever is spoken by God wee admit as his Word when wee are infallibly assured that by Him it was spoken and that wee should do so before himself doth not require at our hands for he would have us use our utmost diligence not to be imposed upon by any in his Name Therefore wee grant that the Word of God was given out for the Rule of men in his Worship two thousand years before it was written but it was so given forth as that they unto whom it came had infallible assurance that from Him it came and his Word it was And if you or any man else can give us such assurance that any thing is or hath been spoken by him besides what we have now written in the Scripture wee shall receive it with the same faith and obedience wherewith wee receive the Scripture its self Whereas therefore you say That the Church was before the Scripture if you intend no more but that there was a Church in the world before the word of God was written wee grant it true but not at all to your purpose If you intend that the Church is before the Word of God which at an appointed time was written it may possibly be wrested unto your purpose but is farre from being true seeing the Church is a society of men called to the knowledg and worship of God by his Ward They become a Church by the call of that Word which it seems you would have not given untill they are a Church of Effects produce their Causes Children beget their Parents Light brings forth the Sunne and Heat the Fire So are the Prophets and Apostles built upon the foundation of the Church whereof the Pope is the Corner stone So was the Judaical Church before the Law of iâ— constitution and the Christian before the Word of Promise whereon it was founded and the Word of Command by which it was edified In brief from the day wherein Man was first created upon the earth to the days wherein we live never did a Person or
over the flocks but Ministers of their faith By these are the flocks of Christ governed as by shepherds appointed by him the great Bishop and Shepherd of their souls according to the Rules by him prescribed for the rule of the one and obedience of the other But if by governed by another man you mean absolutely supreamly at his will and pleasure then we deny that any Disciple of Christ is in the things of God so to be governed by any man and affirm that to assert it is to cast down Jesus Christ from his Throne But you say if he be not immediate head unto all but Ministers head the people and Christ heads the Ministers this in effect is nothing but to make every Minister a Bishop Why do you not plainly say what it is more then manifest you would have All this while you heed no more the Laws of the Land then constitutions of the Gospel Answ. I have told you how Christ is the immediate Head unto all and yet how he hath appointed others to preside in his Churches under him and that this should infer an equality in all that are by him appointed to that work is most senseless to imagine nor did I in the least intimate any such thing but only that therefore there was no need of any one supream head of the whole Catholick Church nor any place or room left for such an one without the deposition of Christ himself Because the King is the only supream Head of all his people doth it therefore follow that if he appoint Constables to rule in every parish with that allotment of power which by his Laws he gives unto them and Justices of Peace to rule over them in an whole County that therefore every Constable in effect is a Justice of Peace or that there is a sameness in their office Christ is the head of every man that is in the Church be he Bishop or Minister or private man and when the Ministers are said to head the people or the Bishops to head them the expression is improper an inferiour Ministerial subordinate rule being expressed by the name of that which is supream and absolute or they head them not absolutely but in some respect only as every one of them dischargeth the Authority over and towards them wherewith he is intrusted This assertion of Christs sole absolute Headship and denial of any Monarchical state in the Church Catholick but what ariseth from thence doth not as every child may see concern the difference that is about the superiority of Bishops to Ministers or Presbyters For notwithstanding this there are degrees in the Ministry of the Church and several orders of men are engaged therein and whatever there are there might have been more had it seemed to our good Lord Christ to appoint them And whatever order of men may be supposed to be instituted by him in his Church he must be supposed to be the Head of them all and they are all to serve him in the Duties and Offices that they have to discharge towards the Church and one another This headship of Christ is the thing that you are to oppose and its exclusiveness to the substitution of an absolute Head over the whole Catholick Church in his place because of his bodily absence from the earth But this you cast out of sight and instead thereof fall upon the equality of Bishops and Ministers which no way ensues thereon Both Bishops and Presbyters agreeing well enough in the Truth we assert and plead for This you say is contrary to the Gospel and the Law of the Land What is I pray that Christ is the only absolute Head of the Catholick Church No but that Bishops and Ministers are in effect all one But what is that to your purpose will it advantage your Cause what way ever that problem be determined Was any occasion offered you to discourse upon that Question Nay you perceive well enough your self that this is nothing at all to your design and therefore in your following discourse you double and sophisticate making it evident that either you understand not your self what you say or that you would not have others understand you or that you confound all things with a design to deceive for when you come to speak of the Gospel you attempt to prove the appointment of one supream Pastor to the whole Catholick Church and by the Law of the Land the Superiority of Bishops over Ministers as though these things were the same or had any relation one to another whereas we have shewed the former in your sense to be destuctive to the latter Truth never put any man upon such subter fuges and I hope the difficulties that you find your self perplexed withall may direct you at length to find that there is a deceit in your right hand But let us hear your own words As for the Gospel the Lord who had been visible Governour and Pastor of his flock on earth when he was now to depart hence as all the Apostles expected one to be chosen to succeed him in his care so did he notwithstanding his own invisible presence and providence over his flock publickly appoint one And when he taught them that he who was greatest among them should be as the least he did not deny but suppose one greater and taught in one and the same breath both that he was over them and for what he was over them namely to feed not to tyrannize not to domineer and hurt but to direct comfort and conduct his flock in all humility and tenderness as a servant of all their spiritual necessities and if a Bishâ—p be otherwise affected it is the fault of his Person not his place And what is it that you would prove hereby is it that Bishops are above Ministers which in the words immediately foregoing you asserted and in those next ensuing confirm from the Law of the Land is there any tendency in your Discourse towards any such purpose Nay do not your self know that what you seek to insinuate namely the instiâ—ution of one supream Pastor of the whole Catholick Church one of the Apostles to be above and ruler over all the rest of the Apostles and the whole Church besides is perfectly destructive of the Hierarchy of Bishops in England as established by Law and also at once casting down the main if not only foundation that they plead for their station and order from the Gospel For all Prelate Protestants as you call them assert an equality in all the Apostles and a superiority in them to the 70. Disciples whence by a parity of reason they conclude unto he superiority of Bishops over Ministers to be continued in the Church And are you not a fair Advocate for your Cause and well meet for the reproving of others for not consenting unto them But waving that which you little câ—re for and are not at all concerned in let us see how you prove that which we know you
your out-cry at its entrance First You observe that I say Joseph of Arimathea was in England but that he taught the same religion that is now in England Unto which you reply But what is that Religion and this enquiry I have observed you elsewhere to insist upon But I told you before that I intend the Protestant Religion and that as confirmed and established by Law in this Kingdom and the advantage you endeavour from some differences that are amongst us is little to your purposes and less to the commendation of your ingenuity For besides that there are differences of as high a nature and considering the Principles you proceed upon of greater importance among your selves and those agitated with as great animosities and subtilties as those amongst any sort of men at variance about Religion in the world you that so earnestly seek and press after a forbearance for your profession besides and against the established law should not me thinks at the same time be so forward in reproaching us that there are dissenters in the Kingdom from some things established by Law especially considering how utterly inconsiderable for the most part they are in comparison of the things wherein you differ from us all This I fear is the reward that they have cause to expect from many of you who are enclined to desire that you amongst others might be partakers of indulgence from the extremity of the Law though from others of you for whose sakes they are enclined unto those desires I hope they may look for better things and such as accompany charity moderation and peace so that your first exception gives a greater impeachment unto your own Candor and ingenuity then unto the Truth or Sobriety of my story You proceed and say that I tell you that the story of Fugatius and Damianus Missioners of Pope Eleutherius is suspected by me for many reasons and reply because you assign none I am therefore moved to think they may be all reduced unto one which is that you will not acknowledge any good thing ever to have come from Rome But see what it is for a man to give himself up unto vain surmizes You know full well that I plead that you are no way concerned in what was done at Rome in the dayes of Eleutherius who was neither Pope nor Papist nor knew any thing of that which we reject as Popery so that I had no reason to disclaim or deny any good thing that was then done at Rome or by any from thence Besides I can assure you that to this day I would willingly own embrace and rejoyce in any good that is or may be done there may I be truly and impartially informed of it and should be glad to hear of more then unprejudiced men have been able of late Ages to inform us of I am far from making an enclosure of all goodness unto any party of men in the world and far from judging or condemning all of any party or supposing that no good thing can be done by them or proceed from them Such conceits are apt to flow from the high towring thoughts of Infallibility and supremacy and the confining of Christianity to some certain company of men in some parts of the world which I am a stranger unto I know no party among Christians that is in all things to be admired nor any that is in all things to be condemned and can perfectly free you if you are capable of satisfaction from all fears of my dislike of any thing because it came or comes from Rome For to me it is all one from whence Truth and Virtue come They shall be welcome for their own sakes But you seem to be guided in these and the like surmizes by your own humour Principles and way of managing things in Religion a Lesbian Rule which will suffer you to depart from the Paths of Truth and Charity no oftener then you have a mind so to do To deliver you from your mistake in this particular I shall now give you some of those reasons which beget in me a suspicion concerning the Truth of that story about Fagatius and Damianus as it is commonly told only intimating the heads of them with all possible brevity First then I suppose the whole story is built on the Authority of the Epistle of Elutherius unto Lucius which is yet extant other foundations of it that I know of is neither pleaded nor pretended Now there want not Reasons to prove that Epistle as the most of those fathered on the old Bishops of Rome to be supposititious For 1. The Author of that Epistle condemneth the Imperial Laws and rejecteth them as unmeet to be used in the Civil Government of this Nation which Eleutherius neither ought to have done nor could safely do 2. It supposeth Lucius to have sent unto Eleutherius to have the Roman Law sent unto him which had been long before exercised in this Nation and was well known in the whole Province as he witnesseth of dayes before these Gallia causidicos docuit facunda Brittannos 2. The first Reporters of this Story agree not in the time wherein the matter mentioned in it should fall out Beda lib. 1. cap. 4. assigns it unto the year 156. which was twenty two years before Eleutherius was Bishop as Baronius manifests Henricus de Erfordia ascribes it unto the nineteenth year of the reign of Verus the Emperour who reigned not so many years at all Ado refers it unto the time of Commodus with some part of whose reign the Episcopacy of Eleutherius did indeed contemporate 2. Geoffrey of Monmouth the chief promoter of this report joyneth it with so many lyes and open fictions as may well draw the Truth of the whole story into Question So that divers would have us believe that some such thing was done at one time or other but when they cannot tell 3. Both the Epistle of Eleutherius and the reporters of it do suppose that Lucius to whom he wrote was an Absolute Monarch in England King over the whole Kingdom with Supreme Authority and Power ruling his Subjects by the Advice of his Nobles without being obnoxious unto or dependent in his Government on any others But this Supposition is so openly repugnant to the whole story of the State of things in the Province of England in those dayes so that it is beyond the wit of man to make any reconciliation between them For besides that Caesar and Tacitus do both plainly affirm that in the dayes of the Romans â—â—ance upon this Island there was no such King or Monarch among the Brittans but that they were all divided into several Toparchies and 〈◊〉 â—ortal feuds and variance among themselves 〈…〉 de for the conquest of them all it was now become a Presidiary Province of the Roman Empire and had been so from the dayes of Claudius as Suetonius Tacitus and Dio inform us Especially was it reduced into and settled in that form by Pub.
and righteousness of his wayes against their proud repinings Pray be as angry with me as you please but take heed of justifying any against God The task will prove too hard for you And yet to this purpose are your following contemptuous expressions For unto my observation that after these times the Goths and Vandals with others overflowed the Christian world you subjoyn either to punish them we may believe or to teach them how to mend their manners Sir I know not what you believe or do not believe or whither you believe any thing of this kind or no. But I will tell you what I am perswaded all the world believes who know the story of those times and are not Atheists and it is that though the Goths and Vandals Saxons Huns Francks and Longobards with the rest of the barbarous Nations who divided the Provinces of the Western Empire amongst them had it may be no more thoughts to punish the Nations professing Christianity for their sins wickedness and superstition though one of their Chief Leaders proclaimed himself the Scourge of God against them then had the King of Babylon to punish Judah for her sins and Idolatry in especial yet that God ordered them no less then he did him in his Providence for those ends which you so scorn and despise that is either to punish them for their sins or to provoke them to leave them by repentance Take heed of being a scoffer in these things least your bands be made strong God is not unrighteous who exerciseth judgement The Judge of all the world will do right Nor doth he afflict any people much less extirpate them from the face of the earth without a Cause Many wicked provoking sinful Idolatrous Nations he spareth in his patience and forbearance and will yet do so but he destroyes none without a Cause And all that I intended by the remembrance of the sins of those Nations which were exposed unto devastation was but to shew that their destruction was of themselves You leap unto another clause which you rend out of mydiscourse that these Pagans took at last unto Christianity and say happily because it was a more loose and wicked life then their own Pagan Profession But are you not ashamed of this trifling doth this disprove my Assertion Is it not true Did they not do so Did not the above mentioned Nations when they had settled themselves in the Provinces of the Empire take upon them the Profession of the Christian Religion Did not the Saxons do so in Brittany the Francks in Gaule the Goths and Longobards in Italy the Vandals in Africk the Huns in Bannonia I cannot believe you are so ignorant in these things as your exceptions bespeak you Nor do I well understand what you intend by them they are so frivolous and useless nor surely can any man in his right wits suppose them of any validity to impeach the evidence of the known stories which my discourse relates unto But you lay more weight on what you cull out in the next place which as you have layed it down is That these now Christened Pagans advanced the Popes authority when Christian Religion Was now grown degenerate and say now we come to know how the Roman Bishop became a Patriarch above the rest by means namely of the new converted Pagans But I wonder you speak so nicely in their chief affair As though that were the Question whether the Bishop of Rome according unto some Ecclesiastical constitutions were made a Patriarch or no and that whither he were not esteemed to have some kind of preheminence in respect of those other Bishops who upon the same account were so stiled When we have occasion to speak of this Question we shall not be backward to declare our thoughts in it For the present you represent the Pope unto us as the absolute Head of the Church Catholick the supream Judge of all controversies in Religion the sole fountain of Unity and spring of all Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction c. Nor did I say that your Pope was by these Nations after their conversion advanced unto the height you labour now to fix him in but only that his Authority was signally advanced by them which is so certain a Truth that your own Historians and Annalists openly proclaim it and you cannot deny it unless you would be esteemed the most ungrateful Person in the world But this is your way and manner all that is done for you is meer duty which when it is done you will thank no man for Are all the Grants of Power Priviledges and Possessions made unto your Papal See by the Kings of this Nation both before and since the Conquest by the Kings of France and Emperours of the Posterity of Charles the Great by the Kings of Poland Denmark and Sweden by the Longobards in Italy not worth your thanks It is well you have got your ends the net may be cast away when the fish is caught But an odd chance you say it was that they should think of advancing him to what they never heard either himself or any other advanced unto before among Christians but yet this was done and no such odd chance neither Your Popes had for a season before been aspiring to greater heights then formerly they had attained unto and used all wayes possible to commend themselves and their Authority not what truly it was but what they would have it to be unto all with whom they had to do and thereupon by sundry means and artifices imposed upon the nations some undue conceits of it though it was not fully nor so easily admitted of as it may be you may imagine But in many things they were willing to gratifie him in his pretensions little knowing the tendency of them many things he took the advantage of their streights and divisions to impose upon them many things he obtained from them by flattery and carnal compliances untill by sundry serpentine advances he had brought them all unto his bow and some of the greatest of them to his stirrup It was yet more odd say you and strange that all Christendome should calmly submit unto a power set up anew by young converted Pagans no Prince or Bishop either here or of any either Christian Kingdom either then or ever after to this day excepting against it Had not all the Bishops and Priests of Africa Egypt Syria Thrace Greece and all the Christian world acknowledged by an hundred experiments the supream Spiritual Authority of the Roman Patriarch in all times before this deluge of Goths and Vandals But why do I expostulate with you who write these things not to judicious Readers but to fools and children who are not more apt to tell a truth then to believe a lye But Sir you shall quickly see whose discourse yours or mine stand in need of week and credulous Reader That which you have in this place to oppose is only this that your Papal Authority received a signal advancement
Platin. vita Gregor 6. Sigon de Reg. lib. 8. From that time forward untill the Reformation no one age can be instanced in wherein great open and signal opposition was not made unto the Papal Authority which you seek again to introduce The instances already given are sufficient to convince the vanity of your pretence that never any opposition was made unto it Of the same nature is that which you nextly affirm of all the Bishops and Priests of Africa Egypt Syria Thrace Greece and all the Christian world by an hundred experiments acknowledging the supream spiritual Authority of the Roman Patriarch I must I see still mind you of what it is that you are to speak unto It is not the Patriarchate of your Pope with the Authority Priviledges and preheminences which by virtue thereof he layes claim unto but his singular succession to Christ and Peter in the absolute Headship of the whole Catholick Church that you are treating about Now supposing you may be better skilled in the affairs of the Eastern Church then for ought as I can yet perceive you are in those of the Western let me crave this favour of you that you would direct me unto one of those hundred experiments whereby the acknowledgment you mention preceding the Conversion of the Nothern Nations may be confirmed It will I confess unto you be a singular kindness seeing I know not where to find any one of that nature within the time limited noâ— to tell you the Truth since unto this day For I suppose you will not imagine that the faigned Prosessions of subjection which poverty and hopes of supplies from the Court of Rome hath extorted of late from some few mean persons whose Titles only were of any Consideration in the world will deserve any place in this disquisition Untill you are pleased therefore to favour me with your information I must abide in my ignorance of any such experiments as those which you intimate The Artifices I confess of your Popes in former dayes to draw men especially in the Eastern Church to an acknowledgement of that Authority which in their several seasons they claimed have been many and their success various Sometimes they obtained a seeming compliance in some and sometimes they procured their Authors very shrewd rebukes It may not be amiss to recount some of them 1. Upon all occasions they set forth themselves the dignity and preheminence of your See with swelling Encomiums and Titles asserting their own Primacy and Power Such self assumings are many of the old Papal Epistles stuffed withall A sober humble Christian cannot but nauseate at the reading of them For it is easily discernable how Antievangelical such Courses are and how unbecoming all that pretend themselves to be Disciples of Jesus Christ from these are their chiefest Testimonies in this Case taken and we may say of them all they bear witness to themselves and that contrary to the Scripture and their witness is not true 2. When and wherever such Letters and Epistles as proclaimed their Priviledges have been admitted through the inadvertency of Modesty of them to whom they were sent unwilling to quarrel with them about the good opinion which they had of themselves which kind of entertainment they yet sometimes met not withall the next successors allwayes took for granted and pleaded what their predecessours had presumptuously broached as that which of right and unquestionably belonged unto them And this they made sure of that they would never lose any ground or take any one step backwards from what any of them had advanced unto 3. Wherever they heard of any difference among Bishops they were still imposing their Vmpirage upon them which commonly by the one or other of the parties at variance to ballance thereby some disadvantages that they had to wrestle withall was admitted yea sometimes they would begin to take part with them that were openly in the wrong even Hereticks themselves that they might thereby procure an address to them from others which afterwards they would interpret as an express of their subjection And wherever their Vmpirage was admitted they were never wanting to improve their own interest by it like the old Romans who being chosen to determine a Controversie between other People about some lands adjudged them unto themselves 4. If any Person that was really injured or pretended so to be made any Address unto them for any kind of Relief immediately they laid hold of their Address as an Appeal to their Authority and acted in their behalf accordingly though they were sometimes chidden for their pains and advised to meddle with what they had to do withall 5. Did any Bishops of note write them Letters of respect presently in their rescripts they return them thanks for their profession of subjection to the See Apostolick so supposing them to do that which in truth they did not they promise to do for them that which they never desired and by both made way for the enlargment of the confines of their own authority 6. Where any Prince or Emperour was entangled in his affairs they were still ready to crush them into that condition of trouble from whence they could not be delivered but by their assistance or to make them believe that their adherence unto them was the only means to preserve them from ruine and so procured their suffrage unto their Authority Unto these and the like heads of Corrupt and sinful Artifices may the most of the Testimonies commonly pleaded for the Popes Supremacy be referred By such wayes and means hath it been erected Yet far enough from any such prevalency for seven hundred years as to afford us any of the experiments which you boast of The next thing you except against in my story is my affirming that Austin the Monk who came hither from Rome was a man as far as appears by story the little acquainted with the Gospel In the repetition of which words to keep your hand in ure you leave out that expression as far as appears by the story which is the evidence whereunto I appeal for the Truth of my Assertion and add to aggravate the matter the word very very little and then add here is the thanks that good St. Austin hath who out of his love and kindness entred upon the wild forrest of our Paganism with great hazards and inexpressible sufferings of hunger cold and other corporal inconveniencies But in the place you except against I acknowledge that God made him a special instrument in bringing the Scripture or Gospel amongst us which I presume also he declared according to the light and ability which he had But you are your own Mothers Son nothing will serve your turn but absolute most pure and perfect For what I have further intimated of him there are sundry things in the History of his coming hither and proceedings here that warrant the suggestion The Questions that he sent for Resolution unto Gregory at Rome discover what manner of man he