men p Iren. l. 3. c. 3. Ad hanc Ecclesiam propter potentâ—rem principalitatem necesse est omnem conuenire Ecclesiam hoc est eos qui sunt vndique fideles in que semper abhis qui sunt vndique conseruata est ea qua est ab Apostolis Traditiâ— To this Church saith he because of her more potent principality it is necessary for euery Church to accord that is the faithfull euery where wherein the Tradition which came from the Apostles hath beene alwaies preserued Now take this reason added by Ireneus which by M. Bishop is concealed and it will plainly appeare why it was necessary for other Churches to accorde with the Church of Rome For this Church for the renowme and famousnesse of the place being then the seate of the Empire was the most eminent Church in the world and therefore continuing still in the doctrine of the Apostles without alteration or change it was most fit of all other to be propounded as a patterne to other Churches whereto to conforme themselues and with which whosoeuer accordeth not did thereby swarue from the doctrine of the Apostles But the case is now altered because the Church of Rome it selfe is now questioned for swaruing from the Tradition of the Apostles which being so that cannot be said to be necessary now which was necessary so long as shee continued in that Tradition And thus sarre we finde only a necessity of consenting then in doctrine with the Church of Rome but for her superiority in gouernement wee finde nothing Yes saith M. Bishop for Ireneus attributeth to the Church of Rome a mightier or more potent principality which what should it import will he say but a superiority of Dominion and gouernment ouer all other Churches But I answer him that principality doth not enforce soueraignty and dominion for he himselfe is holden for a principall man amongst the Seminary Priests and yet hee hath no rule or dominion ouer them Principality importeth specialty and chiefty and noteth an honour of estimation and account and thus the Church of Rome though hauing no title of dominion for ruling and gouerning yet had the honour to bee a chiefe and principall aboue other Churches Now principality is alwayes potent and they that are chiefe and eminent aboue others sway much by their example and perswasion and their very names are very auailable to induce other whom notwithstanding they haue no authority to command according to that which Hilary saith that q Hilar. Epist apud August tom 7. Plureâ— sunt in Ecclesia qui authoritate nominum in sententia tenentur aut ad sententiam transferuâ—tur in the Church there are many who by authority of names are moued either to hold still their opinion or to alter and change the same Such and no other was the potent principality of the Church of Rome and thus doth Ireneus in the same place say that that Church r Iren. vt supr scrip Sit qua est Româ— Ecclesia potentissimas literas Coâ—inthijs c. wrote most potent letters to the Corinthians namely such as were effectuall and strong to moue them and the rather for that they came from such a famous and renowmed place And that M. Bishop may vnderstand that I doe not answere him by a deuice of mine but according to the truth he shall find that Cyprian calleth the Church of Rome Å¿ Cypr. lib. 1. Epist 3. Ad Petri Cathedram Ecclesiam principalem c. the principall Church and yet in the same place he denieth t Ibid. Nauigare audent ad Petri CathedraÌ„ c. Oportet eos quibus praesumâ—s non circumcursare c. Nisi paucis dâ—speratis â—erditis minor esse videtur authoritas Episcoporum in Africa constitutorlâ— c. the authority of the Bishops of Africa to be inferiour to the Bishop of Rome And thus the African Councell acknowledgeth the Church of Rome to be u Conc. Afric cap. 6. Primae sedis Episcopus non appelletur Princâ—ps Sacerdotum aut summus Sacerdos aut aliquid huiusmodi sed tantùm primae sedis Episcopus the first or principall Sea and the Bishop thereof they terme the Bishop of the first or principall Sea and yet they denied to the Bishops of Rome to haue any authority ouer them Yea when Zozimus Bonifacius and Celestmus challenged the same by a forged Canon of the Nicene Councell those x Ibid. c. 101. Quia hic in nullo câ—diâ—â— Grâ—câ— ea poâ—â—imus inuenirâ— ex Orientalibus Ecclesijs vbi perhibetur eadem decreta posse etiam authentica reperiri magis nobis desideramus adferri African Bishops for the disprouing thereof sent to the Patriarches of Antioch Alexandria and Constantinople for authenticall copies of the said Councell wherein they found no such matter and y Ibid. c. 105. Vt aliqui tanquam à tuae sanctitatis latere mittantur nulla inuenimus patrum Synodo constitutum Quod ex parte Nicem Concilij transmisistis in Concilijs verioribus tale aliquid non potuimus reperâ—â—e Executores Cleâ—icos vestros quibusque petentibus nolite mittere c. thereupon wrote to Celestinus that he should forbeare to send his Legates to entermeddle in their matters and z Ibid. c. 92. Non prouocent nisi ad Africana Concilia vel ad primates Prouinciarium sâ—â—rum ad transmarina autem qui putauerit appellandum à nullo intra Africam in communionem suscipiatur forbad all appeales saue to their owne Councels excommunicating them that presumed to appeale to Rome and in this recusancy of subiection they continued afterwards for the space of an hundred yeares vntill Eulalâ—â—s the Bishop of Carthage if it be true which is reported of him and not coyned at Rome betrayed the liberty of that Church and submitted the same to Boniface the second who doubted not most wickedly to say of those African Bishops of whom the learned Father St. Austin was one that a Bonifac. 2. Epist ad Eulal tom 2. Concil Aurelius Carthaginensis Ecclesiâ— olim Episcopus cum collegis suis infâ—igante Diabolo superbire teÌ„poribâ— praedecessorum Bonifacij atque Celestini coÌ„tra RomanaÌ„ Ecclesiam coepit by the instigation of the Diuell they had then begunne proudly to demeane themselues against the Church of Rome As for that potent principality of the Roman Church and necessity of according therewith which M. Bishop intendeth Polycarpus knew it b Euseb hist l. 5. c. 23. Neque enim Anicetâ— suadere Polycarpâ— poterat ne seruaret c. quae semper seruauerat not when he would not be perswaded by Anicetus Bishop of Rome to keepe the feast of Easter according to the manner of the Church of Rome Neither did c Ibid. cap. 22. Episcopis per Asiam qui morem ipsis ab antiquo traditum retineÌ„dum esse affirmabant prâ—erat Polycrates Polycrates the Bishop of Ephesus with the rest of the Churches of Asia acknowledge
rest of the Bishops there And that Councels held it not anâ—â—atter of necessity to haue the confirmation of the Bishop of Rome it is manifest both by the African Councell excluding his authority from amongst them as hath beene before shewed and by the Councell of k Chalcedon which notwithstanding the opposition of the l Concil Chalced. Act. 16. Contradictio nostra his gestis inhâ—reat c. Jâ—dices dixerunt Quod interlocuti sumus tota Synoduâ— approbauit Legates of the Bishop of Rome and l Leo Epist 51. 52. his owne reclayming thereto yet decreed to the Church of Constantinople equality of priuiledges with the Church of Rome saue only that the Bishop of Rome had precedence and priority of place as before also is declared As for M. Bishops other note it is a vaine and fond presumption that all heresies sprung vp since the Apostles daies haue opposed themselues against the Roman Sea and haue beene by it finally ouerthrowne The Church of Rome hath had nothing singular in this behalfe Yea many heresies there haue beene that haue more bent themselues against other Churches then against the Church of Rome neither hath the Church of Rome done so much in the confounding of them as other Churches haue done But yet he bringeth Austin affirming for him that that chaire obtained the top of authority heretikes in vaine barking round about it Where he dealeth very vnhonestly in falsifying the wordes of Austin who in that whole booke by him cited neuer once nameth the Roman Church or chaire nor saith any thing that may be auouched to haue any speciall reference or respect thereto Of the Catholike or vniuersall Church so apparantly to bee discerned from all hereticall combinations St. Austin there saith m Aug. de vtilit credendi c. 17. Dubitabimus nos eius Ecclesiae condere gremio quae vsque ad confessionâ—m generis humani ab Apostolica sede per successio nes Episcoporum frustra hareticis circumlairantibus c. culmâ—n authoritatis obtinuit Shall we doubt to repose our selues in the bosome of that Church which euen by the confession of mankinde from the Apostles sitting or time when the Apostles sate by successions of Bishops hath obtained a height of authority Heretikes in vaine barking round about c. In the whole processe of that booke from the beginning to this place which is almost the very end he speaketh generally of the Catholike Church without relation to any particular Church and therefore vnlikely it is that his wordes here should beare any speciall application to the Church of Rome M. Bishop will say that I mistranslate the wordes ab Apostolica sede and that Apostolica sedes is there meant the Apostolike Sea that is the Roman Church But he must giue vs leaue to vnderstand the meaning of St. Austins wordes by St. Austin himselfe who in this cause so often signifieth by that phrase of speech the time wherein the Apostles themselues sate that is wherein they liued and occupied the roomes of teaching and gouerning the Church Thus he saith in another place n Aug. cont Faust Manich. lib. 11. cap. 2. Vides in hac re quid Ecclesiae Catholicae valeat authoritas quae ab ipsis fundatissimis sedibus Apostolorum vsque ad hodiernum diem succedentium sibimet Episcoporum lot populorum consensione firmatur Thou seest how much the authority of the Catholike Church herein auaileth which from the most surely founded seates of the Apostles vntill this day that is from the time that the seates of the Apostles were most surely founded vntill this day by ranke of Bishops succeeding one another and by the consent of so many peoples is confirmed And againe o Ibid. lib. 28. cap. 2. Vniuersa Ecclesia ab Apostolicis sedibus vsque ad praesentes Episcopos certa successione perducta The vniuersall Church saith he which is deriued by certaine succession from the seates of the Apostles that is from the time that the Apostles sate vnto the Bishops that now are And in another place p Ibid. lib. 33. cap. 9. Eam sequamini que ab ipsius praesentiae Christi tempoâ—ibus per dispensationes Apostolorum 〈◊〉 ab corum â—edibus successiones Episcoporum vsque ad haec tempora peruenit Follow that authority which hath come from the time of the presence of Christ himselfe by the ministery of the Apostles and by other successions of Bishops from their seates from the time wherein they sate vntill this time Which when hee will in more proper wordes expresse hee speaketh thus q Ibid. lib 28. cap. 4. Ecclesia quae ab ipsius Matthaei temporibus vsque ad hoc tempus certa successionum scrie declaratur The Church which from the very time of Matthew vntill this time by certaine ranke of successions is declared r Ibid. lib. 32. cap. 19. Euangelica authoritas ab Apostolorum temporibus vsque ad nostra tempora per successiones certissimas commendata The authority of the Gospell commended by most certaine successions from the time of the Apostles vntill our times And in another place Å¿ Contra Aduers leg Prophet lib. 1. cap. 20. Ecclesia quae ab illorum Apostolorum temporibus per Episcoporum successiones certissimas vsque ad nostra deinceps tempora perseuerat The Church which from the times of the Apostles by most certaine successions of Bishops continueth to our times and so forward Now then sith all these speeches as by conference appeareth serue to expresse only one and the same thing it is plaine that St. Austin when hee said ab Apostolica sede meant nothing else but from the sitting that is from the age and time of the Apostles Of the Apostles I say though he speake in the singular number because hee nameth from thence not a succession as speaking of one but successions as resâ—rting himselfe to those many seates wherein Bishops had succeeded from the time of the Apostles And though wee doe vnderstand it of one Apostle St. Peter as elsewhere he saith t Cont. Epist fundam cap. 4. Tenet ab ipsa ede Petri vsque ad praesentem Episcopâ—tum successio Sacerdotum The succession of Bishops from the very seate of Peter from the very time when Peter sate vntill the Bishopricke that now is holdeth me in the Catholike Church yet doth there nothing hereby follow more to the Church of Rome then to the Church of Antioch where Peter sate as well as he did at Rome and where there had beene Bishops succeeding him vntill that time In a word let M. Bishop take those wordes as hee will yet is there nothing therein to be seene concerning the Church of Rome but only that as the principall Church and specially 〈◊〉 these Westerne parts it serued him most conueniently for instance of the succession which hee pleaded but as for the height or toppe of authority there spoken of it belongeth to
the Catholike or Vniuersall Church discountenancing all partiall and schismaticall combinations and meere impudency is it by those or any other wordes of Austin to challenge to the Church of Rome an authority or superiority of gouernement ouer other Churches when as wee see that both Austin and the rest of the Bishops of Africa did with one consent vtterly disclaime the same Hitherto therefore wee see no cause to attribute to the Church of Rome any such priuiledges as M. Bishop pretendeth and the lesse opinion haue wee that any such there are for that hee bringeth no shew of proofe but onely by wresting and falsifying the Authours whom hee alleageth in that behalfe W. BISHOP §. 3. HEre comes in Master Abbots second proposition but the CHVRCH of Rome is a particular CHVRCH in which is as great doubling and deceit as in the former for albeit the Church of Rome doe in rigour of speech only comprehend the Christians dwelling in Rome yet is it vsually taken by men of both parties to signifie all Churches of whatsoeuer other Country that doe agree with the Church of Rome in faith and confesse the Pastor thereof to be the chiefe Pastor vnder Christ of the whole Church Like as in times past the Roman Empire did signifie not the territory of Rome alone or Dominion of Italie but also any nation that was subiect to the Roman Emperor Euen so the whole Catholike Church or any true member thereof may be called the Roman Church à parte principaliore because the Bishop of Rome is the supreme head of their Church Wherevpon if you demand of a French Catholike of what Church he is his answere will be that he is of the Catholike Roman Church where he addeth Roman to distinguish himselfe from all Sectaries who doe call themselues sometimes Catholikes though most absurdly and to specifie that hee is such a Catholike as doth wholly ioyne with the Roman Church in faith and religion Euen as the word Catholike was linked at first with Christian to distinguish a true Christian beleeuer from an Heretike according to that of Pacianus an ancient Authour Christian is my name Epistola ad Simphorian Catholike is my surname so now adaies the Epitheton Roman is added vnto Catholike to separate those Catholikes that ioyne with the Church of Rome in faith from other sectaries who doe sometimes call themselues also Catholikes though very ridiculously because they be diuided in faith from the greatest part of the vniuersall world Out of the premises may bee gathered that the Roman Church may well signifie any Church that holdeth and maintayneth the same faith which the Roman doth whence it followeth that M. Abbot either dealt doubly when he said the Roman Church to be a particular Church or else he must confesse himselfe to be one of those Doctors whom the Apostle noteth For not vnderstanding what 1. Tim. 1. vers 7. they speake nor of what they affirme R. ABBOT HEre is a new-found distinction and I confesse my selfe to be one of those Doctors that know it not and wee see that M. Bishop as great a Doctor as he is yet can bring neither Scripture nor Father nor Councell nor Story nor any ancient writer whatsoeuer for the warrant of it but such as it is wee must take it barely vpon his owne word The Church of Rome hath abused the world vnder pretence of the name of the Catholike Church alleaging falsly of it selfe that which is truly said of the Catholike Church that without the Church there is no saluation To discouer this fraude we instruct men as truth is that the Church of Rome is but a particular Church and therefore cannot be called the Catholike that is the vniuersall Church and therefore againe that it is but a meere mockery of Popish impostours whereby they say that out of the Church meaning the Church of Rome there is no saluation To this M. Bishop answereth that in that proposition The Church of Rome is a particular Church there is doubling and deceipt And how I pray Forsooth albeit the Church of Rome in rigour of speech doe comprehend only the Christians dwelling in Rome yet it is vsually taken to signifie all Churches of other Countries agreeing in faith with the Church of Rome and confessing the Pope to be chiefe Pastor of the whole Church Where it is to be obserued how hee setteth himselfe meerely to circumuent and cosen his Reader For it being admitted that the Church of Rome is taken to signifie all Churches of other Countries agreeing in faith with the Church of Rome and confessing the Popes chiefty ouer them yet this nothing hindereth but that the Church of Rome is still a particular Church or a part only of the Church because the whole Church doth not agree nor euer hath agreed to giue to the Pope and Church of Rome that chiefty which they require For how many Churches are there not in Europe only but also in Asia and Africa that deride that claime of theirs and neither yeeld nor acknowledge any such superiority to belong vnto them Yea and his owne instance of the Roman Empire confoundeth him in this behalfe because as the Roman Empire was not the Empire of the whole world but imported only the Countries subiect to the Romans there being many other Dominions and Kingdomes that were neuer subiect vnto them euen so the Roman Church is not the Church of the whole world which is the Catholike Church but signifieth only those Churches which professe subiection to the Bishop of Rome there being many other Churches which professe no such subiection Now therefore be it so that the Church of Rome is so vsually taken to signifie other Churches submitting themselues to the Church of Rome M. Bishop for all this to his purpose is neuer a whit the nearer vnlesse he can shew that the Church of Rome is taken to signifie the whole Catholike Church of Christ For if it be not the whole Catholike Church then it is but a member and part thereof and therefore only a particular Church Tell vs then M. Bishop is it any where to be found that the Roman Church is taken to signifie the whole Catholike Church Marke I pray thee gentle Reader how it sticketh betwixt his teeth Faine hee would speake it and yet because hee knoweth it to bee an absurd lye his heart faileth him and only faintly hee telleth vs The whole Catholike Church may be called the Roman Church But M. Bishop doe not tell vs what in your foolish conceipt may bee tell vs what hath beene done The Fathers were interested in this cause as well as wee they haue told vs of the East Church and the West Church the Greeke Church and the Latin Church they haue infinite times made mention of the Roman Church but shew vs that euer they meant by the Roman Church to signifie the whole Church Here hee is blancke and can say nothing and if he would say any thing the
set his owne marke vpon the Church to call it the Catholike Roman Church and the members thereof Roman Catholikes that none should thenceforth bee called Catholikes but such as would bee called Roman Catholikes And hereof M. Bishop very rightly saith that hereby they separate those Catholikes that ioyne in faith with the Church of Rome from other sectaries as importing them also to bee Sectaries that ioyne in faith with the Church of Rome and that by this marke they are to bee knowen from other Sectaries For certaine it is that the name of Roman Catholike is a name of Sect and Schisme and an open proclaiming of a rent and diuision of the Catholike Church of Christ Now for conclusion of this passage hee telleth vs that out of the premises may bee gathered that the Roman Church may well signifie any Church holding the same faith which the Roman doth But what premises may wee thinke hee meaneth here Surely if this bee his conclusion wee finde here nothing but conclusion premises to proue it wee finde none Hee hath told vs before that it may bee so and here full wisely hee repeateth the same againe but neither before nor here doth hee say any thing whereof it should bee gathered that it may bee so And though it may be so yet it auaileth him nothing as hath beene said because it is but a part of the Church that ioyneth in faith with the Church of Rome and therefore the Roman Church cannot bee said to bee the whole Catholike Church so that my proposition still standeth good the Church of Rome is a particular Church and Master Bishop though hee bee a Doctor that sometimes vnderstandeth what hee speaketh yet is not so great a Doctor in this point as that hee can giue vs any reason why hee ought otherwise to vnderstand W. BISHOP §. 4. NOw to this his second sophistication The Roman Church by our rule is the head and all other Churches are members to it but the Catholike comprehendeth all ergo to say the Roman Church is the Catholike is to say the head is the whole body Here is first a mishâ—pen argument by which one may proue or disproue any thing for example I will proue by the like that the Church of England is not Catholike thus The Church of England by their crooked rule is a member of the Catholike Church but the Catholike church comprehendeth all wherefore to say the English Church is the Catholike Church is to say a member is the whole body Besides the counterfaite fashion of the argument there is a great fallacy in it for to omit Fellacia accidentis that wee say not the Church of Rome but the Bishop of Rome to be the head of the Church it is a soule fault in arguing as all Logitians doe vnderstand when one thing is said to be another by a metaphore to attribute all the properties of the metaphore to the other thing For example Christ our Sauiour is metaphorically said to bee a Lyon Vicit Leo de tribu Iuda now if therehence Apocal. 5. v. 5. any man would inferre that a Lyon hath foure legges and is no reasonable creature ergo Christ hath as many or is not indued with reason he might himselfe therefore bee well taken for an vnreasonable and blasphemous creature Euen so must M. Abbot bee who shifteth from that propriety of the metaphore Head which was to purpose vnto others that are cleane besides the purpose For as Christ was called a Lyon for his inuincible fortitude so the Bishop of Rome is called the head of the Church for his authority to direct gouerne the same but to take any other propriety of either Lyon or Head when they be vsed metaphorically and to argue out of that is plainly to play the Sophister Wherefore to conclude this passage M. Abbot hath greatly discouered his insufficiency in arguing by propounding arguments that offend and be very vitious both in matter and for me and that so palpably that if young Logitians should stand vpon such in the paruies they would be hissed oâ—t of the Schooles it must needs be then an exceeding great shame for a Diuine to vse them to deceiue good Christian people in matter of saluation And if after so great vaunts of giuing full satisfaction to the Reader and of stopping his aduersaries mouth that he should not haue a word to reply he be not ashamed to put such bables as these into print he cannot choose but make himselfe a mocking-stocke to the world surely his writings are more meete to stop mustard-pots if I mistake not much then like to stop any meane Schollars mouth R. ABBOT HEre it may well be doubted whether M. Bishop were such a Doctor as to vnderstand himselfe because it should not seeme likely if hee had so done that hee would haue giuen such a brainlesse and stupide answere The first part thereof serueth to shew that when hee hath plaid the wise-man once he cannot be quiet vntill he haue done the like againe Of the shape of the argument I neede say no more then hath beene said of the former being of the same kinde and let him propound as he should that by the like it may be proued that the Church of England is not the Catholike Church and we acknowledge so much and doe take his argument as he hath set it downe The Church of England is only a member of the Catholike church but the Catholike church comprehendeth all wherâ—â—â—re to sâ—y the English Church is the Catholike Church is to say a member is the whole body Wee confesse it to be true and therefore we are not so absurd as to say that the Church of England is the Catholike Church wee affirme it to bee only a member and part thereof and may we not then thinke that this man hath made a doughty fray But beside the counterfait fashion of the argument there is saith he a great fallacy in it And how Marry first wee say not saith he that the Church of Rome but the Bishop of Rome is the head of the Church True it is M. Bishop that when yee compare togither the Church and the Bishop of Rome yee say that the Bishop of Rome is the head of the Church but is it not true also that when yee compare Church with Church yee say the Church of Rome is the head of all Churches Your Master a Bellarm. dâ— Rom. Pont. lib. 2. cap. 13. câ— Synod Nicen. 2. Act. 2. Capuâ— omâ—â—ium Ecclesâ— arum Deâ— Bellarmine hath cited this title as a matter of great moment out of the second Nicene Councel approuing the Epistle of Adrian where it is so called b Ibid. cap. 14. out of Sâ—ricius Innocentius Iohn the second Pelagius the second Gregory the Great Bishops of Rome out of c Ibid. cap 16. Prosper and Victor Vticensis and doe you come now with your slecuâ—lesâ—c tale and tell vs that you say not so The truth is that
mouth full of blasphemic a Syluest Prier cot Luther conclus 56. Indulgentiae non innotuêre nobiâ— authorâ—tate Scripturae sed authoritate Ecclesiae Romanae Romanorumque Pontificum quae maior est Indulgences or Pardons haue not beene knowen to vs by the authority of the Scriptures but by the authority of the Church of Rome and Bishops of Rome which is greater then the Scriptures b Alphons de Cast adu haer lib. 8. tit Indulgentiae Inter omnes res de quibus in hoc opere disputamus nulla est quam minùs apertè sacrae literae prodiderint de qua minùs vetusti scriptores dixerint Et post pro indulgentiarum approbatione sacrae Scripturae testimoniâ— apertum deest There is nothing saith Alphonsus de Castro which the Scriptures haue declared lesse plainly or whereof the old writers haue said lesse There is no plaine testimony of Scripture for the approuing of them And yet M. Bishop no skimmer ouer the Scriptures I warrant you but a man of great obseruation and insight into them will take vpon him to haue found where S. Paul teacheth of Pardons not obscurely or darkely but in very formall termes He citeth to this purpose the wordes of S. Paul concerning the incestuous excommunicated Corinthian now much humbled by repentance and hauing giuen thereof great satisfaction and testimony to the Church c 2. Cor. 2. 10. Whom you haue pardoned any thing I so doe also for my selfe also what I haue pardoned for your sakes I haue done it in the sight of Christ that we be not circumuented of Satan Here he saith that the Corinthians and S. Paul himselfe did giue a pardon he did release some part of the penance of that incestuous Corinthian which is properly to giue pardon or indulgence Iust as well fitted as if he had put a Goose quill to a Wood-cocks taile Hee might euen as well haue alleaged our Bishops as giuers of Popish Pardons because they doe release to men vpon occasion some parts of penance inioyned them for criminall demeanours and had he not made a great speake if he had so done What are we come to vnderstand by the Popes Pardons the releasing of Penitents from the bond of excommunication for the restoring of them againe to the communion of the Church It is true which he saith of this that if S. Paul could so doe S. Peter could doe as much and other principall Pastours of Christs Church haue the same power and authority who doubteth hereof But we speake of a power which the Pope challengeth as proper to himselfe to giue Pardons and Libels of Indulgence or to giue authority to others to giue the same out of the Church treasury of the supererogations of Saints not for absoluing Penitents in foro Ecclesiae but in foro Coeli for releasing of soules from Purgatory and for giuing of them remission for so many dayes or yeares or hundreds or thousands of yeares not only to men for themselues liuing but also for their friends dead and that for doing such and such deuotions or paying so much money for such or such vse or aiding him in his wars against Christian Princes or doing any other worke and seruice that he requireth A lewd and wicked deuise and practise of the Popes of some latter ages and as lewdly coloured by M. Bishop by pretense of that that doth in no sort appertaine vnto it For all that the Apostle intendeth in the words alleaged is that which St. Ambrose briefly expresseth thus d Ambros in 2. Cor. 2. Orat ne adhuc exulcerato aduersum illum animo durum esset illis habere cum illo coÌ„munionem Ecclesiae Hee prayeth them that they would not any longer by a minde exasperated against him bee hard to haue with him the communion of the Church This is the forgiuenesse this is the pardon that he desireth in his behalfe that inasmuch as he hath sufficiently shewed himselfe penitent for his fault they will no longer forbeare to haue Christian society and fellowship with him M. Bishop therefore would neuer haue brought vs this place for Popes Pardons but that by a resolute course of impudency he maketh choise to say any thing rather then to say the truth W. BISHOP §. 8. THe last of M. Abbots instances is That S. Paul saith nothing of traditions wherein hee sheweth himselfe not the least impudent for the Apostle speaketh of them very often Hee desireth the Romans to marke them that make dissentions and scandals Rom. 16. ver 17. contrary to the doctrine which you haue learned and to auoide them but the doctrine that they had then learned before S. Paul sent them this Epistle was by word of mouth and tradition for little or none of the new Testament was then written wherefore the Apostle teacheth all men to be auoided that dissent from doctrine deliuered by Tradition And in the Acts of the Apostles it is of record how S. Paul walking through Syria and Silicia confirming the Churches Commanded Act. 15. vers 41. them to keepe the precepts of the Apostles and of the Ancients Item when they passed through the Citties they deliuered vnto them to keepe the decrees Act. 16. vers 4. that were decreed by the Apostles and Ancients which were at Hierusalem and the Churches were confirmed in faith c. Where it also appeareth that those decrees were made matter of faith and necessary to be beleeued to saluation before they were written Hee doth also charge his best beloued Disciple Timothy To 1. Tim. 6. ver 20 keepe the Depositum that is the whole Christian doctrine deliuered vnto him by word of mouth as the best Authours take it auoiding the prophane nouelty of voices and oppositions of falsly called knowledge Againe he commandeth him to commend to faithfull 2. Tim. 2. vers 2. men the things which thou hast heard of me by many witnesses Was not this to preach such doctrine as he had receiued by Apostolike tradition without writing And further which suppresseth all the vaine cauils of the sectaries he saith Therefore Brethren stand and 2. Thess 2. v. 15. hold the Traditions which you haue learned whether it be by word or by our Epistle where you see that some Traditions went by word of mouth from hand to hand as well as some others were written and were as well to be holden and stood too as the written proceeding from the same fountaine of truth Gods spirit Thus much in answere vnto the instances proposed by M. Abbot which he very ignorantly and insolently auoucheth to haue no proofe or sound of proofe out of S. Paul R. ABBOT HEre M. Bishop playeth the Iugler againe and casteth a mist before his Readers eyes by altering the state of the question betwixt vs and them For the question is not whether the doctrine of truth haue beene at any time deliuered by Tradition that is by word of mouth without writing but whether
sensibly apprehended as appeareth by that that is said of Simon Magus that c Acts 8. 18. he saw that through laying on the Apostles hands the holy Ghost was giuen and is otherwise also plainly to be perceiued Very absurdly therefore doth M. Bishop apply this place to their Sacrament of Orders where it is manifest that no such grace is giuen yea and to proue it to be a Sacrament because here is mention of grace giuen whereas the grace of Sacraments is no temporary gift but that inuisible eternall grace of remission of sinnes and sanctification of the holy Ghost whereby the inner man is renewed from day to day and the soule prepared and furnished vnto eternall life And thus we are come to an end of his proofes of their religion out of St. Pauls Epistles He telleth vs that he should be too long if he would prosecute all but be thou assured gentle Reader that he hath made here as good choise of his proofes as his wit would serue him and thou seest what they are and maiest by these esteeme what all the rest would be impertinent idle detorted wrested strained carrying no shew no colour when they are looked into of any such matter as he pretendeth Albeit thou art also to remember that all this while he hath sitten beside the cushion the thing propounded being that of Theodoret that the Epistle to the Romans containeth in it all kind of doctrine whence I inferred that sith the doctrine of Popery teacheth so many things whereof there is nothing to be found in the Epistle to the Romans it cannot be that doctrine which was at first deliuered to the Church of Rome To this he should haue directly answered and haue shewed vs that their Popery is to bee proued by the Epistle to the Romans But from this he stealeth away and to dawbe vp this breach as well as he can he maketh a scambling shift out of the rest of the Epistles and catcheth here and there a sentence as much to the purpose as if he had said nothing But the trimmest iest of all is his answer to that which I vrged as touching St. Peter whom they haue made the founder and head of their Church that it is strange that he should forget the triple crowne that he should say nothing for Popery no not a word that nothing hindereth in either of his Epistles but that he must be taken for a Protestant What doth M. Bishop say to this Marke it well gentle Reader for it is a learned answere and such as may giue thee great satisfaction in the cause As for St. Peter saith hee I will wholly omit him because the Protestants haue no confidence in him Where I may very well vse the words of St. Austine as touching the like dealing of Petilian the Donatist d Aug. contlit Petil. lib. 3. cap. 57. Videatis quà m inuictè positum sit contra quod ille nihil tutius inuenire potuit quâ—m silentium Marke how inuincibly this is set downe against which he could finde no way more safe then to say nothing What St. Peter to be theirs so nearely so entirely and yet to say nothing for them to be wholly the same that the Papists now are and yet writing two Epistles to write nothing tending thereto to say nothing at all but what we say Looke vpon the Epistles which they attribute to the Bishops of Rome that succeeded and what a worke is there in them concerning the exaltation of St. Peter concerning the dignity and authority of the Church of Rome by him ouer all other Churches and what is it not strange that St. Peter himselfe if hee had beene of the same spirit should say nothing thereof nothing of all the religion which is now proper to the Church of Rome nothing but what wholly standeth with the Protestants religion Will M. Bishop thus ridiculously babble that the Protestants haue no confidence in St. Peter when as he can alleage nothing that St. Peter saith against them or can we be perswaded that the Papists haue any confidence in him when as they can tell vs nothing that he hath said for them M. Bishop you obiect to me in this matter shamelesse impudency but I wish the Reader to consider by this answere of yours to whom the title of shamelesse impudency doth most iustly belong As for your forked argument I doubt not but you your selfe see and know that I am out of the danger of it but I feare that the one graine of it hath already giuen you a deadly wound I am afraide that it will be found that you haue wittingly and wilfully rebelled against God I feare there is a sting in your conscience pricking and vexing you day and night which howsoeuer you for the present violently oppresse yet you are not able to pull out Take heede and beware in time if you doe not glorifie God by your conuersion and confession of his truth God will certainly glorifie himselfe in your destruction FINIS Errata PAge 18. line 24. so reade to p. 19. l. 11. for all r. for all ibid. l. 33. you r. your p. 27. l. 11. accordeth r. accorded p. 28. l. 2. in marg scrip sit r. scripsit p. 66. l. 19. in marg Part. 1. r. Chapt. 1. p. 144. l. 2. Achan only r Achan only p. 179. l. 10. in marg cedite r. incedite p. 214. l. 33. these Kings to whom haue they r. these Kings to whom they haue p. 245. l. 34. in marg creatum quae r. creatum secundum piam fidem quae p. 291. l. 21. they they r. then they p. 334. l. 19. widomes r. widowes p. 363. l. 21. a matter r. matters
of the blisse of the life to come CHAP. XIIII That the Epistles of St. Paul are loosely and impertinently alleaged by the Papists for proofe of their Popery as namely for Iustification before God by workes for Free-will against certainty of saluation and particular Faith for the Merit of single life for Monkish vowes for Purgatory and prâ—yer for the Dead for Images and inuocation of Saints for the Masse and Reall presence for the Authority of thâ— Church of Rome for Pardons for Traditions for the perpetuall visibility of the Church for Satisfactions and workes of supererogation for seuen Sacraments c. THE TRVE ANCIENT ROMANE CATHOLICKE CHAP. I. That the Church of Rome doth vainely and absurdly challenge to it selfe the name of the Catholicke Church Answere to Doct. BISHOPS Epistle Sect. 3. HEre M. Bishop propoundeth briefely to his Maiestie the summe of his Petition c. to It is therefore a meere Vsurpation c. Doct. BISHOPS REPROOFE Pag. 89. §. 1. MAster Abbot is now at length come from his extrauagant rouing narrations vnto some kind of argumentation Here he will giue a proofe of his valour here we shall soone trie whether he come so wel furnished into the field that he neede not to doubt of the victory as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he 〈…〉 ed of himselfe on whether his speciall skill and force die not rather lie in râ—â—ling at vs and in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Reader then in any sound kinde of re 〈…〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 out of St. Aug 〈…〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the â—ord Catholike we â—â—llingly â—â—mit off to wit That religion is Catholike that faith is Catholike which is spread ouer all the world and hath beene alwaies imbraced and practised euen from the Apostles time to our daies and such is the religion which I would haue perswaded his Maiesty to receiue into his Princely protection To this what saith M. Abbot marry that his Maiesty hath already receiued it How doth he proue that not by any one plaine and round argument directly to the purpose but from the Catholike religion falleth to the Catholike Church and so spendeth the time in most friuolous arguing against the Roman Church of which I made no mention at all Doth he not deserue a Lawrell garland for the worshipfull ranging of his battell and is he not like to fight it out valiantly that thus in the beginning flyeth from the point of the Question Proue good Sir that his Maiesty imbraceth and maintaineth that religion which is spread ouer all the world and that hath continued euer since the Apostles time and then you may iustly say that he vpholdeth the Catholike religion according to your owne explication out of the ancient Fathers But because Mr. Abbot saw this to be impossible he gaue it the sâ—ippe and turneth himselfe to proue the Roman religion not to be the Catholike and perceiuing that also as hard to performe as the other he shuffles from the religion and faith of which the Question was vnto the Roman Church that is from the faith professed at Rome to the persons inhabiting the City of Rome whom he will proue not to be Catholikes and the Roman Church not to be the Catholike Church Doe you marke what winding and turning and what doubling this simple Minister is driuen vnto ere he can come to make any shew of a silly argument R. ABBOT I Doe not maruell that my narrations seeme to M. Bishop to be extrauagant and rouing who hauing set vp his owne marke thinketh all to be extrauagant and rouing that flyeth not by his aime Albeit he is beholding to me for those extrauagant and rouing narrations because they haue ministred him matter towards the making vp of a prety handsome booke which must haue beene much shorter if he had beene tyed to the substantiall points of his owne defence As for the victory that I ominated to my selfe thanks be to God I haue obtained it being become Master of the field and M. Bishop enforced to leaue the maine battell contented now only out of a corner to thrust an ambush that he may make some shew that he is not quite spent I triumph ouer him in his owne conscience being priuy to himselfe what desperate shifts he hath beene faine to vse to how cruell a racke he hath beene forced to put himselfe to make men beleeue that he hath strength enough left to saue himselfe It is but risus Sardonius whereby he iesteth at the simple Minister driuen to winding and turning and doubling it is indeede for his behoofe to haue it taken so but the Ministers proceeding is direct and orderly familiar and sensible to euery mans vnderstanding inferring by due course the very point that doth require proofe The Minister is not so simple but that he can easily discerue the pittifull case of a Popish Masse-monger who being troubled with a vertigo or some other distemperature of the braine thinketh all to be winding and turning about him when there is no turning at all but in his owne head The issue betwixt him and me was Whether his Maiesty doe 〈◊〉 and maintâ—ine the only true Catholike and Apostolike faith To proue that he doth so it was necessary first to explicate what is meant by the Catholike and Apostolike faith Of the Catholike Church it is that the faith is called The Catholike faith For there hath beene one and the same faith from the beginning as shall afterwards appeare but it could not be called the Catholike faith till the Church became the Catholike Church If of the Catholike Church the faith be called the Catholike faith then to shew what is meant by the Catholike faith I was first to shew what is meant by the Catholike Church This I did and 〈◊〉 occasion thereof taxed as due order required the 〈…〉 of the Pope and his complices in vsurping to themselues the name of the Catholike Church and thence terming themselues Catholikes that hauing destroyed their ridiculous and foolish claime there might be thereof no let to the collection whereat I aimed that the Catholike faith is the faith of the Catholike Church that the Catholike Church though becomming Catholike by being spred ouer the whole world yet containeth as a part thereof euen * Aug. de Catechiz rudib c. 19. Velut totus homâ— dum nascitur etiamsi manum in nascendo praemittat tameÌ„ vniuerso corpori sub capite coniuncta atque compacta est quem admodum etiam nonnulli in ipsis Patriarchis in buius ipsius rei signum manu praemissa nati sunt c. as an arme or hand come out of the wombe before the rest of the body the whole Church of God from the beginning of the world that of this whole body of the Church from the beginning to the end there is in substance but one faith and religion towards God that therefore what was the faith of the Patriarks and Fathers from the beginning the sâ—me and no other is now the Catholike faith whence it
the world for it is totum integrale to vse the schoole termes and not totum vniuersale quod dicitur de multis Secondly the Catholike Church â—oth also designe and note very properly euery particular Church that embraceth the same true Christian faith which hath continued euer since Christs time and beene receiued in all Countries not only because it is totum similare as Mr. Abbot speaketh wherefore euery true member of the Catholike Church mâ—y be called Catholike but also because each of the said particular Churches hath the same Faith the same Sacraments and the same order of gouernement all which are as it were the soule and forme of the Catholike Church which Mr. Abbot acknowledgeth and further also confesseth out of S. Augustine that Christians were called Catholikes Ex communicatione totius orbis By hauing Epistola 48. communion of faith with the whole world If then by his owne confession euery particular Church yea euery particular Christian that imbraceth and professeth that faith which is dilated all the world ouer be truly called Catholike how fondly then did he goe about to proue the Church of Rome not to be Catholike and Papists not to be Catholikes because forsooth they were particulars Yet that he may be thought not to dote outright but rather to dreame he addeth That at least the Church of Rome hath no reason to assume to her selfe the prerogatiue of that title because that euery Church where the true faith is taught is truly called Catholike and no one more then another I note first that this man is as constant and stable as the weather-cocke on the toppe of a steeple before he proued stoutly as you haue heard that no particular Church could be called Catholike now he will haue euery particular Church that receiueth the true faith to be called Catholike Neither doe we say that any one Oxthodoxe Church is more Catholike then another if the word Catholike be taken precisely though we hold that among all the particular Catholikes the Roman holdeth the greatest priuiledges both of superiority in gouernement and of continuance and stability in the same true Catholike faith which is deduced out of the word of God because that Church is the Rocke according to the Math. 16. v. 18. exposition of the ancient Fathers vpon which the whole Church was built and against which the gates of hell should neuer preuaile Againe the Bishop of Rome succeedeth lineally vnto S. Peter Whose faith Luc. 22. v. 23. through the vertue of Christs prayer shall neuer faile Wherefore S. Ireneus a most learned Archbishop of Lyons in France and a glorious Martyr of great antiquity saith That all Churches ought to agree with the Lib. 3. cap. 3. Church of Rome for her more mighty principality S. Cyprian Archbishop of Carthage in Africke affirmeth That perfidiousnesse and falshood in matters Lib. 1. Epist 3. of faith can haue no accesse vnto the See of Rome S. Ambrose taketh it to be all one to say the Catholike and the Roman Church in these wordes If he shall agree De ob Satyri with the Catholike that is with the Roman Church So doth S. Hierome when he saith of Ruffinus What Hieron in Apol. 1 cont Russi c. 1. faith doth he say his to be if the Roman faith we are then Catholikes affirming men to become Catholikes by holding the Roman faith Tertullian Epiphanius De Prascript Epiph. hares 27. Lib. 2. cont Parmeni August Epist 165 Optatus S. Augustine dâ—e proue their Churches to be Catholike and themselues to be Catholikes by declaring that they doe communicate with the Church of Rome in society of faith and doe condemne their aduersaries to be Schismatikes and Heretikes because they did not communicate with the same Roman Church And which is greatly to be noted no generall Councell of sound authority wherein the Christian truth hath beene expounded and determined but is confirmed by the Bishop of Rome And on the other side no heresie or error in faith hath sprong vp since the Apostles dayes that did not oppose it selfe against the Roman See and was not by the same finally ouerthrowne Whereupon S. Augustine had good reason to say De vtil cred cap. 17. That that chaire obtayned the top of authority Heretikes in vaine barking round about it This little I hope will suffice for this place to declare that there is great cause why we should attribute much more to the Roman Church then to any other particular Church what soeuer and yeeld to it the prerogatiue of all singular titles in a more excellent manner R. ABBOT VVHereas M. Bishop made motion to his Maiesty to accept of the Catholike faith I tooke occasion to note that the Catholike faith is so called of the Catholike Church and consequently to shew that the Catholike Church by the very signification of the word importeth the vniuersal Church so called as I noted out of Austin and Athanasius a Aug. de vnit Eccles cap. 2. Qâ—am maiores nostri Catholicam nominarâ—t vt ex ipso nomine ostenderent quiâ— per totum est Athanas quest 71. Catholica propterea quòd per totum mundum diffusa sit Quia per totum est because it is ouer all or through all the world and is not tyed to any Countrey place person or condition of men b Aug. in Psal 56. Corput eius est Ecclesâ—â— non hâ—c aut illa â—ed toto orbe diffusa nec ea quae nunc est in hominibus qui prâ—sentem vitam agunt sed ad â—am pertinentibus â—â—iam his qui fuerunt ante nos his qui futâ—ri sunt post nos vsque in sinem seculi Not this Church or that Church as S. Austin further saith but the Church dispersed through the whole world and not that which consisteth in men now presently liuing but so as that there belong to it both those that haue been before vs and shall be after vs to the worlds end Now before I could conueniently make vse and application hereof I was to remoue the stumbling blocke that lay in the way by the absurd presumption of the Church of Rome which like c Anian fabul the Asse in the fable of Antanus that to make himselfe terrible put on him a Lions skin so being become the Asse to carry Balaam the false Prophet who for d 2. Pet. 2. 15. Apoc. 2. 13. the wages of vnrighteousnesse hath set his heart to curse and scandalize the people of God to take away the reproch hereof and to gaine to it selfe a soueraigne authority ouer other Churches hath laboured by all meanes to entitle it selfe to a propriety of the name of the Catholike Church so as none should be taken to be a member of the Catholike Church but only as he is subiect to the church of Rome Duraeus the Iesuit out of the abundance of his Catholike wit hath told vs a tale which the old Catholike
it is all one now to say the Catholike and to say the Roman Church The Church of Rome as the most famous and chiefe Church was most fit to bee named in this case but otherwise it may euen as well be said They were Catholike Bishops that coÌ„municated with the Church of Millan where Ambrose was Bishop therefore to say the Church of Millan is all one as to say the Catholike Church As little discretion is there in his next allegation out of Hierome who mentioning the words of Ruffinus concerning some workes of Origen by him translated The Latin Reader shall finde nothing in them different from our faith demandeth thus a Hieron Apolog aduers Ruffin lib. 1. Fide suam quam vocat Eamnè qua Romana pollet Ecclesia an illam quâ— Origenis voluminibus continâ—tur si Romanam respondeâ—it ergo Catholâ—ci sumus qui nihil de Origenis errore transtulimus c. Which calleth hee his faith that which the Church of Rome professeth or that which is contained in the bookes of Origen If he answere the Roman faith then are we Catholikes who haue translated nothing of the errour of Origen For what is there here said of the Roman Church but what might likewise bee saâ—d of any other Church professing the true faith The argument followeth because the Roman Church did then maintayne the true Catholike faith so should it follow of the rest If he professe the faith of the Church of Constantinople of Antioch of Alexandria yea of the poore Church of Eugubium then is he a Catholike because al these did then professe the Catholike faith But what is this to M. Bishops purpose to proue in the Church of Rome a priuiledge of continuance and stability in the same true Catholike faith to proue that the Roman faith should bee alwaies the certayne and vndoubted patterne of the true Catholike faith In which conclusion his other Authours also doe all faile him who though it be graunted him that they did as he saith proue themselues then to be Catholikes and their Churches Catholike by declaring themselues to communicate with the Church of Rome and their aduersaries to bee Heretikes because they did not so for that the Church of Rome was then famously knowen to haue continued the same from the beginning in the points of faith then impugned by the Heretikes yet very idlely and childishly are they alleaged to proue that which M. Bishop intendeth that it should alwayes thenceforth continue so But indeede hee racketh his Authours and wrongeth them neither doe they say that which hee would haue them taken to say Tertullian appealeth to other Churches as well as to the Church of Rome and referreth his Reader to the most famous of them accordingly as they are nearest at hand b Tertul. de praescript Percurre Ecclesiaâ— Apostolicas apud quas ipse adhuc Cathedrae Apostolorum suis locis praesidentur c. Proxima est tibi Achaiai habes Corinthum Si non longè es a Macedonia habes Philippos habes Thessalonicenses Si potes in Asiam tenderâ— habes Ephesum Si autem Italâ—ae adiaces habes Romanam Runne through the Apostolike Churches in which there are Bishops still sitting in the seates of the Apostles in their places Is Achaia next vnto thee thou hast Corinthus If thou be not farre from Macedonia thou hast Philippos and the Thessalonians If thou canst goe into Asia thou hast Ephesus If thou border vpon Italie thou hast the Church of Rome What is there here for M. Bishops turne c Epiph. haeres 27. Epiphanius setteth downe a Catalogue of the Bishops of Rome but saith not a word to that effect as M. Bishop citeth him Optatus approueth his part to be Catholike not simply by communicating with the Church of Rome but for that togâ—ther with the Church of Rome d Optat. lib. 2. Siâ—icius hodie noster est socius cum quo nobis totus orbis coÌ„mercio formatarum in vna communionis societate concordant they communicated with thâ—â—hurch of the whole world Yea in the same booke hee attributeth as much in this behalfe to the seuen Churches of Asia as to the Church of Rome therby as strongly reproueth the Donatists e Ibid. Cum quibus Ecclesijs nullum communionis probamini habere consâ—rtiâ— c. Extra septem Ecclesias quicquid soris est alienum est You are proued to haue no fellowship of coÌ„munion with the seuen Churches Whatsoeuer is without the seuen Churches is stranger to the Church Austin setteth downe the succession of the Bishops of Rome and vpbraideth the Donatists that f Aug. Epist 165. In hoc ordine successionis nullus Donatista Episcopiâ— inuenitur no Donatist was found amongst them but as well doth he obiect to them that whereas g Ibid. Quile gunt in codicibus sanctis Ecclesias quibus Apostoli scripseruÌ„t nullum in eis habeÌ„t Episcopum Quid autem peruersius insaniê° quà m lectoribê° easdem Epistolas legentibus dicere pax tecum ab earum EcclesiaruÌ„ pace separare quibus ipsa Epistolae scriplae suÌ„t they read the Epistles of the Apostles they diuided themselues from the peace and fellowship of those Churches to which the Apostles wrote the same Epistles So then in all these Authors which he alleageth he doth but meerely abuse his reader which is the cause why he thus set downe their names without their wordes for that he presumed that only alleaging their names men would imagine that vndoubtedly they said somewhat for him whereas if he had set downe their wordes euery man might see that they said nothing Yea but it is greatly to be noted saith M. Bishop that there is no generall Councell of sound authority wherein the Christian truth hath beene expounded and determined but is confirmed by the Bishop of Rome Well and it is as greatly to be noted that the sentence of no Bishop of Rome was anciently holden sufficient for the deciding of a question of faith except the same were confirmed by a generall Councell Therefore doth Leo Bishop of Rome mention h Leo epist 61. Apostolicae sedis Epistola vniuersali sancta Synodi assensâ— firmata Et Epist 70. Scripta mea adiecta vniuersalis Synodi coÌ„firmatione c. his Epistle against the heresie of Eutyches confirmed by the vniuersall assent of the sacred Synode and his writings hauing the confirmation of the generall Councell added thereto And what his authority was in the Councell it may be conceiued by that he wrote to the Councell of Ephesus i Idem Epist 14. Misi qui vice mea sancto conueÌ„tui vestrae fraternitatis intersint communi vobiscum sententia qua Domino sint placitura constituant I haue sent my deputies to be present with you in your assembly and by sentence in common to decree those things which may be pleasing to the Lord where wee see that he challengeth no more but a voice in common with the
you know not what to say because you see it sorteth absurdly whatsoeuer you say Well let vs omit this because M. Bishop is willing so the vpshot of his answere is that it is a fiule fault in arguing when one thing is said to be another by a metaphore to attribute all the properties of the metaphore to the other thing And this he handleth very grauely by example of Christs being called a Lyon whence notwithstanding hee saith it is not to bee argued that hee hath foure legges and therefore that M. Abbot must bee an vnreasonable creature who shifteth from that propriety of the metaphore Head which was to purpose vnto others that are cleane besides the purpose Now here a simple man who commonly admireth that most which hee vnderstandeth least imagineth that M. Bishop hath shewed himselfe a learned man and hath told a worthy tale when as that which hee hath said is as much to the matter as if hee had told vs in great sadnesse that a bird bolt hath no braines Vndoubtedly hee dreamed very strongly that I had said that the Church of Rome because it is the head must haue a nose in the middle of the face or because it is old must haue wrinckles in the browes or must haue long eares because it is become an Asses head If not who can take him for any other but a foure-legged creature that thus impertinently commeth in with a tale of foure legges What property of a head doe I speake of that he should say that I shift from that propriety which was to the purpose to others that are beside the purpose My wordes are these To speake by their rule the Roman Church is the head and all other Churches are membâ—rs vnto it I name no property of a head at all let it bee what it will or what they will haue it it shall bee all one to mee for in whatsoeuer respect they will make the Church of Rome the head of all Churches in the same respect they must make all other Churches the members and body to this head Let it bee that property of a head which he mentioneth and which I intended as meant by them that all other Churches are to bee directed and gouerned by the authority of the Church of Rome as the members of the body by the head accordingly my argument shall proceede that the Church of Rome by their learning is the head of all other Churches and all other Churches are as the members and body to this head but the Catholike Church comprehendeth all euen the whole both head and body To say then that the Roman Church is the Catholike Church is all one as if a man should say that the head is the whole body Who can speake hereof more clearely then I haue done and who can answere more absurdly then hee hath done And albeit hee haue thus egregiously played the foole and hath bewraied plainly that hee was here put to his trumps and knew not what to say yet to flourish and face the matter hee admirably vaunteth and insulteth vpon my insufficiency in â—rguing and telleth mee of being hissed oâ—t of the Schooles and making my selfe a mocking-stocke and that my writings are more meete to stoppe mustard-pots then likely to stoppe any meane Schollers mouth You say well M. Bishop You shall doe well to stoppe your mustard-pot with some part thereof that your mustard may bee kept quicke and strong to cleare your head for if it bee alwayes as dull as you haue shewed it here it may very well bee said that such a head hath but a little wit As for your mouth it may bee it will not bee stopped because you are sicke of Pisoes disease b Hieron ad Ocean Pisoniano vilio cum lâ—qui nesciret tacâ—re non potuit Who though hee knew not what to say yet could not hold his peace A man may well thinke that your mouth is not easily stopped who rather then you would say nothing would tell such a wise tale as you haue here done CHAP. II. The comparison betwixt the Donatists and the Papists is iustified and enlarged ANSWERE TO THE EPISTLE IT is therefore a meere Vsurpation whereby the Papists call the Roman Church the Catholike c. to There was reason why Austin should c. W. BISHOPS REPROOFE Pag. 95. §. 1. IN the former passage M. Abbot bestowed an argument or two raked out of the rotten rubbish of those walles to vse some of his owne wordes which were before broken downe by men of our side Now he commeth to his owne fresh inuention as I take it for it is a fardle of such beggarly base stuffe and so full of falshood and childish follies that any other man I weene would not for very shame haue let it passe to the print It consisteth in a comparison and great resemblance that is betweene the old doating Donatists and the new presumptuous Papists if M. Abbot dreame not The Donatists saith he held the Catholike Church to be at Cartenna and the Papists doe hold it to bee at Rome in Italie False on both sides because we doe not hold it to be so at Rome as they did at Cartenna for we hold it to be so at Rome as it is besides also dispersed all the world ouer they that it was wholly included within the straight bounds of Cartenna in Mauritania and her confines so that whosoeuer was conuerted in any other Countrey must goe thither Epistola 48. to bee purged from their sinnes as S. Augustine testifieth in expresse termes in the very place by M. Abbot allâ—aged False also in the principall point that the Donatists held the Catholike Church to bee at Cartenâ—â— for there dwelt only the Rogatists who were as Saint Augustine there speaketh Breâ—â—ssimum frustum dâ— frusto maiore A most small gobbet or fragment broken out of a greater peece that is to say a few Schismaticall fellowes fallen from the Donatists as the Puritans are from the Protestants or the Anabaptists from the Sacramentaries so that although men of that sect held the Catholike Church to be at Cartenna yet the maine body of the Donatists maintayned it not to bee there at all but held that congregation of Cartenna to bee wholly Schismaticall and no true member of the Catholike Church This first part then of the comparison is most vgly and monstrously false R. ABBOT IN this comparison betwixt the Donatists and the Papists I must confesse that I committed some little ouer-sight by vnderstanding that generally of the Donatists which belonged only to a part of them and thereby affirming that wholly of Cartenna in Mauritania which is to be referred to that which properly and particularly is called Africa I obserued the errour my selfe long since and meant in another edition if any should be to correct it and in the meane time to haue noted it in the Preface of my third part But now since it falleth out to be first noted by M. Bishop
That we are not to imitate our fore-fathers descendeth to the subsequent to wit That his Maiesties Progenitours Kings of England and Scotland were not of our Roman faith which he will proue hereafter at more leasure that is to say neuer For he doth not deny but that the religious and holy man Augustine sent into our country by Gregory the Great Bishop of Rome to conuert our Ancestours the Saxons and English to the Christian faith did then teach the same Roman faith which we now professe so that aboue this thousand yeares by his owne confession his Maiesties Progenitours haue beene of our Catholike Roman faith and religion and very few Kings now liuing I weene can deriue their pedegree much further Afterward he doth rake out of the chanels of Bale Iewel Hollinshead and such like Page 198. late partiall writers which any man not past all care of his reputation would be ashamed to cite for sufficient witnesses in matters of controuersie wherein they themselues were parties that there was great disagreement betweene Augustine the Italian Monke as he speaketh and the Churches of England and Scotland whereas venerable Bede a most approued authour and neare vnto those times who did as most diligently trace out those matters so record them most faithfully he I say whose authority is sufficient to put downe an hundreth late writers interessed in the cause affirmeth that there was no variance betwixt them in any one article of faith but only in some few points of ceremonie namely in these two Vpon what day the feast of Easter was to be kept Beda lib. 2. histor cap. 2. and about the rites of Baptisme For S. Augustine offered them to beare with all other their different rites if they would yeeld vnto him in these two points Vt Pascha suo tempore celebretis That yee would keepe Easter-day at the due time appointed by the Councell of Nice and minister the Sacrament of Baptisme after Euseb in vita Const lib. 3. 17. Epiphan lib. 3. Haeres 70. the manner of the Roman Apostolike Church And concerning these two points who can thinke but that the Sacrament of Baptisme was like to be administred in those daies in the most renowmed City of Rome after a more decent and deuout manner then among the Britans that liued in a corner of the world Now for the other of keeping the feast of Easter the fourteenth day of the first Moone with the Iewes It was many yeares before condemned in the first most famous generall Councell of Nice and therefore it cannot be denyed but that those Britans were either very ignorant in the Canons of the Church if they knew not so solemne a decree or else too too contentious and wilfull in refusing to yeeld vnto it A third clause was added by S Augustine that the Britans would ioyne with him and his fellowes Beda ibidem in preaching the word of God vnto the English nation which also argueth yet more strongly that they agreed together in all articles of faith or else they would not haue required their helpe in instructing others in matters of faith And this is not only registred by S. Bede that holy Historiographer but also reported by their owne late writers Hollinshead and * M. Godwine Volum 1. page 103. * Page 6. in his Catalogue of the Bishops of England S. Bede also witnesseth further in the place aboue said that the same Britan Christians euen then confessed that they did perceiue that to be the true way of iustice which Augustine did preach Furthermore the principall Preachers and most godly men that liued not long before S. Augustines arriuall among the Britans as namely S. Dulcitius and S. Dauid were brought vp at Rome and one of them the Popes Legate too as the aduersaries Iohn Bale in their liues themselues confesse Whereupon it followeth clearely that not only for these later thousand yeares but also in the former hundreths all his Maiesties Ancestors both English and Britans embraced and maintayned the same Catholike Roman faith which we now doe R. ABBOT MAster Bishop kindly threapeth vpon me that I denie not but that Austin the Monke sent hither by Gregory Bishop of Rome did then teach the same Roman faith that they now professe whereas I doe not only deny it to be so but also doe bring a Answ to the Epistle to the King sect 31. diuers instances to proue directly that it is not so Of those diuers let one only here suffice The religion brought in by Austin the Monke continuing here till the time of Charles the Great though it approued the hauing of Images yet condemned the second Nicene Councell for that it approued the worshipping of them The thing by Roger Houeden is thus reported that b Roger. Houeden Annal. p. 1. Anno 792. Carolê° Rex FraÌ„corum misit Synâ—dalem librum ad Britanniam sibi à Constantinopoli directum in quo libro beu proâ— dolor multa inconuenientia verâ— fidei coÌ„traria reperiebantur maximè quòd penè â—mnium Orientalium Doctorum non minus quà m trecentorum vel â—o amplius Episcoporum â—nanima assertione confirâ—atum fuerit Imagines adorari debere quod omninò Ecclesia Dei execratur Contra quod scripsit Albinus EpistolaÌ„â—x authoritate diuinarum Scripturarum mirabilitèr affirmataÌ„ illamque cum â—odâ—m libâ—o ex person 1 Episcoporum ac Principli nostro 〈…〉 â—rancorum 〈…〉 t. in the yeare 792. Charles the King of France sent ouer into Britaine a synodall booke or booke of a Councell directed to him from Constantinople in which booke alas for woe many things were found inconuenient and contrary to true faith specially for that by agreement of all the Easterne Doctors no lesse then three hundred Bishops and more it was decreed that Images should be worshipped which thing the Church of God wholly accurseth Against which saith he Albinus wrote an Epistle wonderfully strengthened by authority of holy Scriptures and brought it together with the booke to the King of France in the name or behalfe of our Bishops and Peeres The Roman faith which Austin brought condemned that Nicene Councell Tho Roman faith which M. Bishop bringeth approueth that Councell for so hath he done in his c Sect. 12. Epistle to the King Therefore the Roman faith which M. Bishop bringeth is not now the same that Austin brought He cannot doubt but that Austin being sent hither by Gregory did teach the same faith here which Gregory himselfe taught at Rome But the faith which Gregory taught at Rome shall be shewed if God will in this booke in many particulars to haue beene contrary to that faith that is now taught from Rome As for our writers Bale Iewell Hollinshead and such like I cite them not as sufficient witnesses in matters of controuersie as he vainly cauilleth but I name them only as recording matters of history which they haue taken out of former stories and writers when mine owne Library
testimony of Pighius one of his owne fellowes should be sufficient to choake him a Pigh Eccles Hierarch l. 6. cap. 3. Quis per Râ—manaÌ„ Ecclesiam vnquam intellexit aut vniuersalem Ecclesiam aut generale Concilium Who did euer by the Roman church vnderstand the vniuersall Church A generall Councell is holden to be by representation the vniuersal or Catholike church and who was there euer so far out of his wits as to cal a generall Councell the Roman Church The seuen Churches of Asia haue been taken to betoken the vniuersall Church as we haue seene before but who euer said or thought that they did betoken the Roman church Now whereas he telleth vs that it may be so taken I answer him that so some man may take M. Bishop to signifie a ioined-stoole For if men will take names words to signifie what they list why may not some man be as wilfull in the one as he seeth them witlesse in the other What authority haue they to impose significations vppon words and phrases contrary to the first original thereof and to the alwaies continued custome and vse of the whole Church The Church of Christ absolutely is but one dispersed and scattered ouer the whole world Of this one Church there are notwithstanding diuers parts which all being in nature alike are by the name of the whole called by the name of b Act. 15. 41. Rom. 16. 16. Churches For distinction of these Churches they haue euery of them their denomination of the places where they are The church of Antioch is called c Act. 13. 1. the Church which is at Antioch the Church of Corinth is d 1. Cor. 1. 2. the Church of God which is at Corinth the Church of Ephesus are e Ephes 1. 1. the Saints which are at Ephesus And thus when the Apostle meant to write to the Church of Rome he writeth f Rom. 1. 7. to all that be at Rome beloued of God c. For as the Church of Thessalonica is g 1. Thess 1. 1. the Church of the Thessaelonians that is of them that inhabite Thessalonica so the Church of Rome is the Church of the Romans that is of them that inhabite Rome And thus we see that in the inscriptions of the Epistles of the ancient Bishops of Rome accordingly as we haue them albeit sometimes they wrote themselues Bishops of the Catholike Church yet doe shew that they meant it no otherwise then as all Bishops wrote themselues Bishops of the Catholike Church as I haue before shewed namely with limitation thereof to the Citty of Rome whereof they were Bishops without euer dreaming of M. Bishops vniuersall Roman Church Thus we finde h Calixt Epist 1. Calixtus Archiepiscopus Ecclesiae Catholicae vrbis Romae Calixtus Archbishop of the Catholike Church of the Citty of Rome i Marcellin Epist 1. Marceilinus Episcopus Sanctae Ecclesiae Catholicae vrbis Romanae Marcellinus Bishop of the holy Catholike Church of the Citty of Rome k Marcell Epist 2. Marcellus Episcopus Sanctae Apostolicae Catholicae vrbis Romae Marcellus Bishop of the holy and Apostolike and Catholike Citty of Rome And so Leo onewhere writing himselfe l Leo. Epist 13. Leo Catholicae Romanae Ecclesiae Episcopus Leo Bishop of the Catholike Roman Church doth otherwhere plainly expresse the meaning thereof m Epist 1 2. 3. Leo vrbis Romae Epi copios Et Epist 12. Leo Papa Ecclesiae Catholicae vrbis Romae Leo Bishop of the City of Rome Leo Bishop of the Catholike Church of the Citty of Rome To bee short it is not to bee found that euer the Church of Rome was otherwise vnderstood but only for the Church of the Citty of Rome and shall wee hearken to these new vpstart Minters that thus coyne vs a Church of Rome that was neuer heard of before And therefore it is nothing to vs what they by abuse of speech teach their followers to say let their French Disciples say they are of the Catholike Roman Church we vnderstand them thereby to take part with the Church of Rome but the Church of Rome is that of Rome only whereto they addict themselues Albeit by that addition what doe they but shew themselues Sectaries and Schismatikes diuiding themselues factiously apart from the whole the Catholike Roman Church absurdly so named by themselues from that which is absolutely and therefore truly called the Catholike Church For the Catholike Church is the whole Church as hath beene said but Roman put to it is a terme of diminution and abridgeth the whole to a part the vniuersall to a particular because the whole is not Roman Therefore to say Catholike Roman is to say Catholike not Catholike and Roman Catholikes are Catholikes which are no Catholikes and of them it may be truly said which Optatus said of the Donatists n Optat lib. 2. Vultis vos solos esse totum qui in omni toto non estis You would haue your selues only to be the whole who are not in all the whole Now here we may aske them with what face they can talke of antiquity who haue brought into the Church so strange a nouelty as this is The name of Catholikes and of the Catholike Church which pleased antiquity is not enough for them Pacianus said of old o Pacian ad Simpron epist 1. Christianus mihi nomen est Catholicus verò cognomen Christian is my name and Catholike my surname but that is changed now into Roman Catholike is my surname disclaiming thereby the communion and fellowship of the Catholike Church and banding themselues in a partiall and factious confederacy with the Roman Church Thus hauing departed from the ancient faith and discipline of the Catholike Church they doe notwithstanding for colouring of their Apostasie retaine certaine names and formalities thereof but they doe it so as that by their additions and constructions they make no other but mungrels and bastards of them And this appeareth by the reason that M. Bishop giueth of their adding Roman to Catholike namely to separate them that ioyne in faith with the Church of Rome from other sectaries because Catholikes were of old so called not for ioyning in faith with this or that Church but for being members of the vniuersall Church And if that reason were sufficient it should haue waighed of old as well as now when there were so many Sects and Heresies in the Church when Schismatikes and Heretikes vsurped to themselues the name of Catholikes and yet the Catholike saw no reason to draw the whole to the name of any part or to call themselues otherwise then by the name of Catholikes as resoluing to professe no other communion or fellowship but vniuersally with the Church of the whole world Neither was it otherwise till Antichrist had exalted himselfe in the Roman Sea who challenging to himselfe and his only to bee the Church of God tooke vpon him to
him bring in Iacob 5. v. 14. the Priests of the Church and let them pray ouer them anoiling them with Oile in the name of our Lord c. Confesse therefore your sinnes one to Ibidem 16. another These and an hundred more plaine texts recorded in that fountaine of life wherein our Catholike Roman doctrine is deliuered in expresse tearmes to wit Thereall presence of Christs body in the Sacrament That Priests haue power to pardon sinnes That Christ built his Church vpon S. Peter That good workes doe in iustice deserue eternall life That we are iustified not by faith alone but also by good workes That in extremity of sicknesse wee must call for the Priest to anoile vs with holy Oile That we must confesse our sinnes not to God alone but also vnto men these and diuers such like heads of our Catholike faith formally set downe in holy Scripture the Protestants will not beleeue though they bee written in Gods word neuer so expresly but doe ransacke all the corners of their wits to deuise some â—dde shift or other how to flie from the euidence of them Whereupon I conclude that they doe not receiue all the written word though they professe neuer so much to allow of all the bookes of Canâ—nicall Scripture For the written word of God consisteth Lib. 2. de Trinitate ad Const not in the reading but in the vnderstanding as S. Hierome testifieth that is it doth not consist in the bare letter of it but in the letter and true sense and meaning ioyned togither the letter being as the body of Scripture and the right vnderstanding of it the soule spirit and life thereof he therefore that taketh not the written word in the true sense but swarueth from the sincere interpretation of it cannot be truly said to receiue the written word as a good Christian ought to doe Seeing then that the Protestants and all other sectaries doe not receiue the holy Scriptures according vnto the most ancient and best learned Doctors exposition they may most iustly be denyed to receiue the sacred written word of God at all though they seeme neuer so much to approue all the Bookes Verses and Letters of it which is plainly proued by S. Hierome vpon the first Chapter to the Galathians R. ABBOT I Haue noted a §. â— before in this Chapter that St. Austin faith of the Prophets and faithfull of the people of the Iewes that though not in name yet in deede they were Christians as we are As they were Christians then with vs so are we now Iewes with them not according to M. Bishops vnderstanding of the name of Iewes to whom I may well say as Austin said to Iulian the Pelagian b August coÌ„â— Iulian. l. 4. c. 3. Cùm insana dicis rides phrenetico es similis When thou speakest madly and laughest thou art like to a frantike Bedlem but according to the Apostles construction thereof c Rom. 2. 29. He is a Iew which is one within and d Phil. 3. 3. we are the circumcision which worship God in the spirit and reioyce in Christ Iesus and haue no confidence in the flesh We must be Iewes by vnity of faith with them as they were Christians with vs because they with vs and wee with them make but one body and one Church whereof though there be diuers Sacraments yet there is but one faith from the beginning to the end receiued first by the Patriarches written afterwards by the Prophets written againe more clearly by the Apostles so that e Ephes 2. 20. vpon the foundation not foundations but one foundation because one euen one written doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets the houshold of God are built and our faith resteth wholly thereupon I haue walked no rounds I haue broken through no brakes of thornes but haue kept a direct and euen way and haue so strongly builded all this as that I scorne M. Bishops poore paper-shot as much too weake to throw it downe To him I know these things are rounds and mazes he knoweth not which way to get out of them they are brakes of thornes he lyeth fast tyed in them God giue him grace to yeeld to that which he seeth himselfe vnable to reproue He is very angry it seemeth as touching the last point that I should say that the Protestants receiue and beleeue all the written word He saith that therein I begge that which is principally in question and thinketh that I haue little wit or iudgement to thinke that they would freely grant me that But our vsage and debating of questions with them is sufficient to put that out of question We vse the Scriptures our selues we translate them for common vse we reade and expound them publikely in our Churches we exhort men to reade them priuately in their houses wee instruct them to receiue no doctrine but what they see there wee make the same written word the soueraigne Iudge of all our controuersies wee defend the authority and sufficiency thereof against the impeachments and disgraces which Papists haue cast vpon it What may we doe more to make M. Bishop beleeue that we receiue and beleeue the written word Surely if I tell him that the Sunne shineth at noone day he will not beleeue it if it seeme to him to sound any thing against the Pope But he will giue instance to proue that we doe not so first for that we reiect diuers bookes of the old Testament Wherein he saith vntruly for the bookes of the old Testament are the bookes of Moses and the Prophets the Psalmes f August coÌ„t Gaudent lib 2. cap. 23. Non habent Judaei sicut legem Prophetas Psalmos quibus Dominus testimonium perhibet tanquam testibus suis To which saith Austin our Lord Iesus gaue testimony as his witnesses of which we reiect none the other bookes that are adioyned to these we doe not reiect but we reade them and commend them yea we say as much of them as M. Bishop vouchsafeth to say of Pauls Epistles and the rest that they contayne many most diuine and rare instructions but yet we giue them no authority for confirmation of matters of faith because Christ and his Apostles haue giuen no testimony or witnesse of them and the primitiue Church in that respect hath expresly disclaimed them as I haue shewed at large g Of Traditions sect 17. before and resteth hereafter in this booke to bee shewed againe Secondly he bringeth sundry texts of the new Testament to proue that we doe not rightly vnderstand and beleeue all that is written in Gods word wherein he saith their Catholike Roman doctrine is deliuered in expresse termes First to proue the reall presence of Christs body in the Sacrament he citeth the wordes This is my body which shall be giuen for you c. But if the Romish doctrine be here deliuered in expresse termes how is it that their owne Scotus saith that
the Scots in the doctrine of the Church of Rome euen as Augustine was from S. Gregory into England From which the Scots Church neuer swarued vntill of late yeares Knoxe Buchanan and such like giddy headed and fiery spirited fellowes seduced them And M. Abbot most ignorantly or impudently affirmeth it to haue beene 1200. yeares after the incarnation of Christ ere the Popes authority could get any acknowledgment there for in the very same hundreth yeare by him named they were so farre off from denying the Popes authority ouer them in causes Ecclesiasticall that they did acknowledge him to be also their Protectour in temporall affaires For when King Edward the third would haue giuen them Iohn Balial for their King they answered him That they would not accept of him for such Walsingham in vita Edw. Anno 1292. without the Popes consent who had their country in protection as they then pleaded And M. Abbots argument to the contrary is most friuoulous Alexander the King bade the Popes Legate to enter his country at his perill ergo he did not acknowledge the Popes authority By the like argument one might proue that King Philip and Queene Mary did not acknowledge the Popes authority for they commanded a Legate of his to stay at Calis and to forbeare entrance into this Realme at his perill The Popes Legates then when they be sent about affaires that doe seeme to the Prince and his Councell preiudicious to the temporall slate may be refused without disparagement to the Popes supreme authority in causes Ecclesiasticall And the King of Scots had reason to refuse that Cardinall Legate whose speciall arrand was to collect money to maintaine the warres of the holy Land which was not to be spared in his Countrey Besides the very entertainement of such a great State so accompanied was reputed as needlesse so ouer costly for that poore Countrey If M. Abbot haue no better stuffe then this to vphold his badde cause he that best knew his owne meaning and designement hath to the life painted out himselfe where he saith They care not indeede what they say or write so that it may carry a magnificall and braue shew to dazell the eyes of them that are not well acquainted with their lewde and naughty dealing R. ABBOT a Bale Script BritaÌ„nic Cent. 1. oper minor PAlladius and Patritius were sent into Scotland by Celestinus Bishop of Rome to instruct the Scots against the doctrine of Pelagius the Heretike which is a certaine argument of the apostasie of the Church of Rome inasmuch as the Church of Rome now patronizeth and defendeth the doctrine of Pelagius as I haue b Of Free will sect 5. before shewed Little doth M. Bishop gaine by all this alleagement of teachers then sent from Rome We know what was then the religion of the Church of Rome and we know that the streame the longer it ranne the more soile it gathered but yet it was very pure and tollerable then in comparison of that that now it is There followeth now an assertion of mine that it was twelue hundred yeares after the incarnation of Christ ere the Popes authority could get any acknowledgement in Scotland which he saith I doe most impudently or ignorantly affirme But how doth it appeare that I so doe Forsooth in the very same hundreth yeare by him named saith he they were so farre off from denying the Popes authority ouer them in causes Ecclesiasticall that they did acknowledge him to be their Protectour in temporall affaires Marke well gentle Reader that I name twelue hundred yeares and he saith in the very same hundreth yeare and yet for the thing which he reporteth of the Scots alleaging that the Pope had their Countrey in protection he noteth the yeare 1290. which was almost a hundred yeares after the time by me set downe Be it M. Bishop that at the end of twelue hundred and ninety yeares they had receiued the Pope to be the Protectour of their Countrey that nothing hindereth the truth of my speech that for twelue hundred yeares they acknowledged not any authority of the Pope amongst them in Church affaires You should haue brought vs some records to shew that within the compasse of those twelue hundred yeares the Pope had without controllement exercised in the Realme of Scotland Ecclesiasticall and ordinary iurisdiction which seeing you doe not you iustifie my assertion and the impudency whereof you speake must be the staine of your owne face who will take vpon you to contradict me with such an impertinent and sleeuelesse tale To proue that there was no such iurisdiction acknowledged I referred the Reader to the King of Scots owne wordes who as Matthew Paris reporteth c Math. Paris in Henrico 3. Anno 1237. Volenti autem Domino Legato intrare regnum Scotiae vt ibi de negotijs Ecclesiasticis tractaret sicut in Anglia respondit Rex Scotiae Non memini Legatum in terra mea vidisse nec opus esse iquem esse vocandum Deo gratias nec adhuc opus est omnia benè se habent Nec â—tiam tempore Patris mei vel alicuius AntecessoruÌ„ meorum visus est aliquis Legatus intâ—oitum habuisse nec ego dum mei compos suero tolerabo when the Lord Legate was desirous to enter into the Kingdome of Scotland there to deale in Ecclesiasticall matters as he had done in England answered him I doe not remember that I haue seene any Legate in my Countrey nor that there hath beene any neede thanks be to God that any should be called neither is there any neede all things are well No nor in the time of my Father or of any of my Predecessours hath any Legate beene seene to haue had any entrance there neither will I suffer any so long as I am in my right wits This euidence is cleare none had entred in his time none had entred in the time of his Father or any of his Predecessours none should enter so long as he could keepe him in his right minde and though things were amisse yet none had authority to enter but as he should be called and warranted by him The same in effect he alleaged two yeares after when the Legate againe was attempting to goe into that Countrey and though after much adoe vpon intercession of the Nobles of England and Scotland he was content for once to admit him that he might not haue the disgrace of being repulsed yet it was with condition as I haue d See the Aduertisement concerning D. Bishops Reproofe sect 15. formerly declared that the said Legate should put in caution vnder his hand and seale that his entrance should not be drawen to a matter of example whereupon to presume the like another time This matter is more plaine then that M. Bishops paltry shifts can put it off King Philip and Queene Mary respited the entrance of a Legate for a time but wholly to deny him entrance for ordering matters
Christs mediation hee held it needfull to request other farre meaner then himselfe to pray for him All this is good saith a good Protestant for to instruct vs to request the helpe of other mens prayers that are liuing with vs but not of Saints who are departed this world Yes say we because the Saints in heauen are more charitable and desirous of Gods honour and of our spirituall good then any friend we haue liuing and therefore more forward to assist vs with their prayers They are also more gracious in the sight of God and thereby better able to obtayne our requests All which may easily be gathered out of S. Paul who saith that charity neuer faileth but is maruailously encreased 1. Cor. 13. ver 8. Ephes 2. ver 19. in that heauenly Country Also that we are not strangers and forraigners to the Saints but their fellow Cittizens and the houshold seruants of God with them yea we are members of the same body wherefore they cannot choose but tender most dearely all our sutes that appertaine vnto the glory of God and our owne saluation They therefore haue finally no other shift to auoide praying to Saints but to say that though all other circumstances doe greatly moue vs thereto yet considering that they cannot heare vs it is labour lost to pray to them To which we reply and that out of S. Paul that the Saints can heare vs and doe perfectly know our prayers made vnto them For the Apostle comparing the knowledge of this life with that of the life to come saith In part wee know and in part wee prophesie but 1. Cor. 13. ver 9. â—0 12. when that shall come which is perfect that shall be made voide which is in part And a little after VVe see now by a glasse in a darke sort but then face to face Whence not I but that Eagle-eyed Doctor S. Augustine De Ciuitat Dei lib. 22. cap. 29. doth deduce that the knowledge of the heauenly Cittizens is without comparison farre more perfect and clearer then euer any mortall mans was of things absent and to come yea that the Prophets who were indued with surpassing and extraordinary light did not reach any thing neare vnto the ordinary knowledge of the Saints in heauen grounding himselfe vpon these expresse wordes of the Apostle We prophesie in part that is imperfectly in this life which shall be perfect in heauen If then saith he the Prophets being mortall men had particular vnderstanding of things farre distant from them and done in other Countries much more doe those immortall soules replenished with the glorious light of heauen perfectly know that which is done on earth though neuer so farre from them thus much of praying to Saints R. ABBOT WE collect saith he as though it were any thing to vs what they collect when the question is what the Apostle teacheth It is true that the Apostle heartily craueth the Romans a Rom. 15. 30. to helpe him in their prayers and hopeth by the helpe b 2. Cor. 1. 11. of the Corinthians prayers to be deliuered from great dangers but what of that Marry saith he hence we reason thus If such a holy man as Paul was stoode in neede of other mens prayers much more neede haue we poore wretches of the prayers of Saints But doth not the wise man see that he here maketh a rodde to whip himselfe for if such a holy man as Paul was standing in neede of other mens prayers yet craued not any prayers of the Saints that were dead but only of the brethren that were aliue doth he not teach vs to doe the like that though we be to begge the helpe of other mens prayers yet we begge the same of the liuing only not of them that are dead Yea but the Saints in heauen saith he are more charitable and desirous of Gods honour and our spirituall good more forward to pray for vs and more gracious in Gods sight to obtaine our requests But why then say I did not St. Paul rather seeke to the Saints in heauen then to men liuing vpon the earth Why did he not say O Abraham Isaac Iacob pray for vs Why did he not desire God that by the merits and intercession of the holy Virgin of Saint Stephen St. Iames St. Ioseph and such others he would haue mercy vpon him Why did he seeke to them that were farre meaner then himselfe when hee might haue gone to those that were superiors to himselfe and more gracious in Gods sight Did not he know that charity is maruelously increased in that heauenly Countrey that they tender dearely all our sutes that they can heare vs and doe perfectly know our praiers made vnto them Why did he omit then rather to craue their prayers then the prayers of the Romans the Corinthiaus and others to whom he wrote M. Bishop cannot here answere any thing to giue satisfaction to any reasonable man yea it plainly appeareth by the Apostles example that all his collections are but vaine and phantasticall speculations Against which we oppose briefly that it is c Iam. 5. 15. the prayer of faith which saueth and true faith hath it seate d Rom. 10. 10. in the heart and God heareth euery mans prayer e 1. Kings 8. 39. as he knoweth his heart and f Ibid. he only knoweth the hearts of all the children of men and therefore the Saints know not our prayers because they know not our hearts And thus the Prophet Esay saith g Esay 63. 16. Abraham knoweth vs not and Israel is ignorant of vs. Wherupon St. Austin concludeth h August de cura pro mort gerenda c. 13. Si tanti Patriarchâ— quid erga populum ex his procreatum ageretur ignoraâ—erunt quibus Deo credentibus populus ipse de illorum stirpe promissus est quomodomortui suorum rebus atque actibus cognoscendis adiuâ—aÌ„disque miscentur Quomodo dicimus cis fuisse consultum qui obierunt antequam venirent mala quae illoruÌ„ obitum consecuta sunt si post mortem sentiunt quaecunque in vita humanae calamitate contingunt Et paulò pòst Ibi sunt ergò spiritus defunctor um vbi non vident quaecunque agâ—tur aut euenâ—â—nt in ista vita hominibus If so worthy Patriarches did not know what was done as touching the people that was descended of them to whom beleeuing God the same people was promised to come of their stocke how haue the dead to doe with the knowledge or helping of the state and doings of theirs and how doe we say that they were prouided for who died before those euils came which ensued after their death if after death they vnderstand what euils befall in the calamity of this life He concludeth The soules of the dead are there where they see not what things are done or happen to men in this life This M. Bishop cannot abide to heare of from St. Austin because he thinketh
it to be great disaduantage to him and on the contrary to aduantage himselfe by St. Austins authority he sticketh not most wilfully and absurdly to belie him calling him in the meane time the Eagle-eyed Doctor after the manner of the i Mat. 23. 30. Scribes and Pharisees hypocrites who garnished the Sepulchres of the Prophets but their doctrine they could not abide First he setteth downe St. Austins ground in the Apostles wordes k 1. Cor. 13. 9. We know in part and we prophesie in part but when that which is perfect is come then that which is vnperfect shall be done away And againe l Vers 12. Wee see now by a glasse in a darke sort but then face to face Hereof he saith that St. Austin doth deduce that the knowledge of the heauenly Cittizens is without comparison farre more perfect and cleare then euer any mortall mans was of things absent and to come Yea he alleageth these as the very words of Austin If then the Prophets being mortall men had particular vnderstanding of things farre distant from them and done in other Countries much more doe those immortall soules replenished with the glorious light of heauen perfectly know that which is done on earth though neuer so farre from them For this hee quoteth August de ciuit Dei lib. 22. cap. 29. Now would not a man maruell that M. Bishop should dare to cite such a sentence as out of Austin when Austin hath no such And yet he doth so most folsly and vnhonestly St. Austin saying nothing in that place of the immortall soules now in heauen but only of the body and soule conioyned after the resurrection The very thing that he propoundeth to speake of in the beginning of the Chapter is this l August de Ciu. Dei l. 12. c. 29. Nunc iam quid actari sint in corporibus immortalibus atque spiritualibus fancti non adhuc eâ—rum carne carnaliter sed spiritualitèr iam viuente quantum Dominus dignatur adiuuare videamus What the Saints shall doe in their immortall and spirituall bodies the flesh now liuing no longer carnally but spiritually To set forth the sight and knowledge of things which the Saints shall then haue he taketh a coniecture from the example of Elizeus m Ibid. Si Propheta Helizeus pucrum â—uum Gâ—eziabsens câ—rpore vidâ—t accipientem munera quae dedit et Naaman Syrus c. quantò magis in illo corpore spirituali videbunt sancti omnia non solum sioculos claudaÌ„t verumâ—tiam vnde sunt corpore absentes Tunc enim erit perfectum illud de quo loquens Apostolus Ex parte inquit scimus c. Itane cum venerit quod perfectum est nec iam corpus corruptibile aggrauabit animam sed incorruptibile nihil impediet illi sancti ad ea quae videnda sunt â—culis corporeis quibus Helisaeus absensad seruum suum videndum non indiguit indigebunt who being absent yet saw his seruant Gehezi taking gifts of Naaman the Syrian How much more saith he shall the Saints in that spirituall body see all things not only though they shut their eies but also where in body they are absent fir then shall be the perfection saith he whereof the Apostle speaketh citing the wordes which are before set downe and then inferring againe When that is come which is perfect and the corruptible body shall no longer clogge the soule but being incorruptible shall nothing hinder it shall the Saints neede bodily eyes for the seeing of things which Elizeus needed not for the seeing of his seruant I will not stand here to dispute of the strength of this collection nor of St. Austins application of those words of the Apostle but wee see that here is no such matter as M. Bishop pretendeth but by his collecting head hee bath meerely coined a sentence of his owne St. Austin in the one place denyeth that the Saints now are acquainted with our matters and in the other place saith nothing to the contrary but speaketh only vncertainly of the state that shall be after the resurrection from the dead and is not M. Bishop in the meane time a trusty man thus to bolster a false matter with a forged proofe I conclude with a briefe answere to his ground that our crauing of ech others prayers liuing is a request of mutuall loue but Popish prayers to Saints are prayers of adoration and religion performed to them In the one we pray only as fellow members in compassion in the other the Saints are made to pray as Patrones by mediation The one therefore hath no fellowship or agreement with the other and very deceiptfully doth M. Bishop deale to bring the pretence of the one for the colouring of the other W. BISHOP §. 6. NOw to the Masse The same profound diuine Saint Aug. Epist 59. ad Paulinum Ambros Chrysost in hunc locum Augustine with other holy Fathers who were not wont so lightly to skimme ouer the Scriptures as our late new Masters doe but seriously searched them and most deeply pierced into them did also finde all the parts of the Masse touched by the Apostle S. Paul in these wordes I desire that obsecrations prayers postulations 2. Tim. 2. vers 1. thanks-giuings be made for all men c. declaring how by these foure wordes of the Apostles are expressed the foure different sorts of prayers vsed in the celebration of the holy Mysteries By Obsecrations those prayers that the Priest saith before consecration By Prayers such as be said at and after the consecration vnto the end of the Pater noster By postulations those that are said at the Communion vnto the blessing of the people Finally By Thanks-giuing such as are said after by both Priest and People to giue God thanks for so great a gift receiued He that knoweth what the Masse is may by these wordes of the Apostle see all the parts of it very liuely paintedout in this discourse of S. Augustine who though he calleth not that celebration of the Sacrament by the name of Masse yet doth he giue it a name equiualent Sacri Altaris oblatio the oblation or sacrifice â—pistola 59. of the holy Altar in the solution of the fift question at the exposition of these wordes Orationes As for the principall part of the Masse which is the Reall presence of Christs body in the blessed Sacrament S. Paul deliuereth it in as expresse termes as may be euen as he had receiued it from our Lord This is my body which shall be deliuered 1. Cor. 11. v. 23. for you c. and addeth that he that eateth and drinketh it vnworthily eateth and drinketh iudgement to himselfe not discerning the body of our Lord. And in the Chapter before maketh this demaund The Chalice or cup of benediction which we blesse is it not the communication of the bloud of Christ and the bread which we breake is it not the participation of