beg and yet he himselfe brake into heresy because he had been depriued by the Archbishop of Canterbury of a certaine Benefice as all Schismes heresies begin vpon passion which they seeke to couer with the cloake of Reformation Thirdly he condemned lawfull Oaths like the Anabaptists Fourthly he taught that all things came to passe by absolute necessity Fiftly he defended human merits as the wicked Pelagians did namely as proceeding from naturall forces without the necessary help of God's grace Sixtly that no man is a Ciuill Magistrate while he is in mortall sinne and that the people may at their pleasure correcÌ„t Princes when they offend by which doctrine he proues himselfe both an Heretique and a Traytour 53. As for Husse his chiefest Doctrines were That Lay people must receiue in both kinds and That Ciuill Lords Prelates and Bishops loose all right and authority while they are in mortall sinne For other things he wholy agreed with Catholiques against Protestants and the Bohemians his followers being demaunded in what points they disagreed from the Church of Rome propounded only these The necessity of Communion vnder both kinds That all ciuill Dominion was forbidden to the Clergy That Preaching of the word was free for all men and in all places That open Crimes were in nowise to be permitted for auoyding of greater euill By these particulars it is apparant that Husse agreed with Protestants against vs in one only point of both Kinds which according to Luther is a thing indifferent because he teacheth that Christ in this matter (q) In epist ad Bohemos commaunded nothing as necessary And he sayth further If thou come to a place (r) De vtr aâ—â— que specie Sacram. where one only kind is administred vse one kind only as others do Melancthon likewise holds it a thing (s) In Cent. epist. Theol. pag. 225. indifferent and the same is the opinion of some other Protestants All which considered it is cleer that Protestants cannot challenge the Waldenses Wicclifse and Husse for members of their Church although they could yet that would aduaÌ„tage them litle towards the finding out a perpetuall visible Church of theirs for the reasons aboue (t) Num. 49. specifyed 54. If D. Potter would go so farre off as to fetch the Muscouites Armenians Georgians Aethiopians or Abissines into his Church they would proue ouer deare bought For they eyther hold the damnable heresy of Eutiches or vse Circumcision or agree with the Greeke or Roman Church And it is most certayne that they haue nothing to do with the doctrine of Protestants 55. It being therefore granted that Christ had a visible Church in all ages and that there can be none assigned but the Church of Rome it followes that she is the true Cath. Church and that those pretended Corruptions for which they forsooke her are indeed diuine truths deliuered by the visible Catholique Church of Christ And that Luther and his followers departed from her and consequently are guily of Schisme by diuiding themselues from the Communion of the Roman Church Which is cleerely conuinced out of D. Potter himselfe although the Roman Church were but a particular Church For he sayth Whoseuer professes (u) Pag. 70. himselfe to forsake the Communion of any one meÌ„ber of the body of Christ must confesse himselfe consequently to forsake the whole Since therefore in the same place he expressely acknowledges the Church of Rome to be a member of the Body of Christ and that it is cleere they haue forsaken her it euidently followes that they haue forsaken the whole and therefore are most properly Schismatiques 56. And lastly since the crime of Schisme is so grieuous that according to the doctrine of holy Fathers rehearsed aboue no multitude of good workes no morall honesty of life no cruell death endured euen for the profession of some Article of faith can excuse any one who is guilty of that sinne from damnation I leaue it to be considered whether it be not true Charity to speake as we belieue and to belieue as all Antiquity hath taught vs That whosoeuer eyther beginnes or continues a diuision for the Roman Church which we haue proued to be Christs true Militant Church on earth cannot without effectuall repentance hope to be a meÌ„ber of his Triumphant Church in heauen And so I conclude with these words of blessed Saint Augustine It is common (w) Cont. Parm. lib. 2 â—ap 3. to all Heretiques to be vnable to see that thing which in the world is the most manifest and placed in the light of all Nations out of whose Vnity whatsoener they worke though they seeme to doe it with great care and diligence can no more auaile them against the wrath of God then the Spiders web agaynst the extremity of cold But now it is high tyme that we treat of the other sort of Diuision from the Church which is by Heresy CHAP. VI. That Luther and the rest of Protestants haue added Heresy vnto Schisme BECAVSE Vice is best knowne by the contrary Vertue we cannot well determine what Heresy is nor who be Heretiques but by the opposite vertue of Fayth whose Nature being once vnderstood as farre as belongs to our present purpose we shall passe on with ease to the definition of Heresy and so be able to discerne who be Heretiques And this Iâ—ntend to do not by entring into such particular Questions as are controuerted betweene Catholiques and Protestants but only by applying some generall grounds eyther already proued or els yielded to on all sides 2. Almighty God hauing ordayned Man to a supernaturall End of Beatitude by supernaturall meanes it was requisite that his Vnderstanding should be enabled to apprehend that End and Meanes by a supernaturall knowledge And because if such a knowledge were no more then probable it could not be able sufficiently to ouerbeare our Will encounter with human probabilities being backed with the streÌ„gth of flesh and bloud It was further necessary that this supernatural knowledge should be most certaine and infallible and that Fayth should belieue nothing more certainely then that it selfe is a most certaine Beliefe and so be able to beate downe all gay probabilities of humane Opinion And because the aforesayd Meanes and End of Beatificall Vision do farre exceed the reach of naturall wit the certainty of fayth could not alwayes be ioyned with such euidence of reason as is wont to be found in the Principles or Conclusions of humane naturall Sciences that so all flesh might not glory in the arme of flesh but that he who glories should glory (a) 2. Cor. 10 in our Lord. Moreouer it was expedient that our belife or assent to diuine truths should not only be vnknowne or ineuident by any humane discourse but that absolutely also it should be obscure in it selfe and ordinarily speaking be void euen of supernaturall euidence that so we might haue occasion to actuate and testifie the obedience which we owe to our
vs. And Our of you shall (d) Act. 203.30 arise men speaking peruerse things And accordingly Vincentius Lyrinensis sayth Who euer (e) Lib. ad uersus haer cap. 34. began heresies who did not first separate himselfe from the Vniuersality Antiquity and Consent of the Catholique Church But it is manifest that when Luther appeared there was no visible Church distinct from the Roman out of which she could depart as it is likewise well knowne that Luther his followers departed out of her Therfore she is no way lyable to this Marke of Heresy but Protestants cannot possibly auoid it To this purpose S. Prosper hath these pithy words A Christian communicating (f) Dimid temp cap. 5. with the vniuersall Church is a Catholique and he who is diuided from her is an Heretique and Antichrist But Luther in his first Reformation could not communicate with the visible Catholique Church of those times because he began his Reformation by opposing the supposed Errors of the then visible Church we must therfore say with S. Prosper that he was an Heretique c. Which likewise is no lesse cleerly proued out of S. Cyprian saying Not we (g) Lib. de Vnit Ecles departed from them but they from vs and since Heresies and Schismes are bred afterwards while they make to themselues diuers Conuenticles they haue forsaken the head and origen of Truth 19 And that we might not remaine doubtfull what separation it is which is the marke of Heresy the ancient Fathers tel vs more in particular that it is from the Church of Rome as it is the Sea of Peter And therfore D. Potter need not to be so hot with vs because we say writ that the Church of Rome in that sense as she is the Mother Church of all others and with which all the rest agree is truly callled the Catholique Church S. Hierome writing to Pope Damasus sayth I am in the Communion (h) Ep. 57. ad Damas of the Chayre of Peter I know that the Church is built vpon that Rocke Whoseuer shall eate the LaÌ„be out of this house he is profane If any shall not be in the Arke of Noe he shall perish in the tyme of the deluge Whosoeuer doth not gather with thee doth scatter that is he that is not of Christ is of Antichrist And els where 's Which doth he (i) Lib. 1. Apolog call his fayth That of the Roman Church Or that which is contained in the Bookes of Origen If he answere the Roman then we are Catholiques who haue translated nothing of the error of Origen And yet further Know thou that the (k) Ibid. lib. 3. Roman fayth commended by the voyce of the Apostle doth not receiue these delusions though an Angell should denounce otherwise then it hath once been preached S. Ambrose recounting how his Brother Satyrus inquiring for a Church wherin to giue thanks for his deliuery from Shipwrack sayth he called vnto him (l) De obitu Satyris fratri the Bishop neither did he esteeme any fauour to be true except that of the true fayth and he asked of him whether he agreed with the Catholique Bishops that is with the Roman Church And hauing vnderstood that he was a Schismatique that is separated from the Roman Church he abstained from communicating with him Where we see the priuiledge of the Roman Church confirmed both by word and deed by doctrine and practise And the same Saint sayth of the Roman Church From thence the Rights (m) lib. 1. ep 4. ad Jmperatores of Venerable Communion do flow to all S. Cyprian sayth They are bold (n) Epist. 55. ad Cornel. to saile to the Chaire of Peter and to the principall Church from whence Priestly Vnity hath sprung Neither do they consider that they are Romans whose Fayth was commended by the preaching of the Apostle to whom falshood cannot haue accesse Where we see this holy Father ioynes together the principall Church and the Chaire of Peter and affirmeth that falshood not only hath not had but cannot haue accesse to that Sea And else where Thou wrotest that I should send (o) Epist 52. a Coppy of the same letters to Cornelius our Collegue that laying aside all solicitude he might now be assured that thou didst Communicate with him that is with the Catholique Church What thinke you M. Doctor of these words Is it so strang a thing to take for one and the same thing to communicate with the Church Pope of Rome and to communicate with the Catholique Church S. Irenaeus sayth Because it were long to number the successions of all Churches (p) Lib. 3. çont haer c. 3. we declaring the Tradition and fayth preached to men and comming to vs by Tradition of the most great most ancient and most knowne Church founded by the two most glorious Apostles Peter and Paul which Tradition it hath from the Apostles comming to vs by succession of Bishops We confound all those who any way either by cuill complacence of themselues or vaine glory or by blindnes or ill Opinion do gather otherwise then they ought For to this Church for a more powerfull Principality it is necessary that all Churches resort that is all faythfull people of what place soeuer in which Roman Church the Tradition which is from the Apostles hath alwayes been conserued from those who are euery where S. Augustin sayth It griâ—â—ues vs (q) In psal cont partâ—â—n Donati to see you so to ly cut off Number the Priest euen from the Sea of Peter and consider in that order of Fathers who succeeded to whome She is the Rook which the proud Gates of Hell do not ouâ—rcome And in another place speaking of Cacilianu he sayth He might contemne the conspiring (r) Ep. 162. multitude of his Enemies because he knew himselfe to be vnited by Communicatory letters both to the Roman Church in which the Principality of the Sea Apostolique did alwayes florish and to other Countreys from whence the Gospell came first into Africa Ancient Tertullian sayth If thou be neere Italy thou hast Rome whose (s) Praeser cap. 36. Authority is neere at hand to vs a happy Church into which the Apostles haue powred all Doctrine together with their bloud S. Basill in a letter to the Bishop of Rome sayth In very deed that which was giuen (t) Epist. ad Pont. Rom. by our Lord to thy Piety is worthy of that most excellent voyce which proclaymed thee Blessed to wit that thou maist discerne betwixt that which is counterfeit and that which is lawfull and pure and without any diminution mayest preach the Fayth of our Ancestors Maximianus Bishop of Constantinople about twelue hundred yeares agoe said All the bounds of the earth who haue sincerely acknowledged our Lord and Catholiques through the whole world professing the true Faith looke vpon the power of the Bishop of Rome as vpon the sunne c. For the Creator of the
world amongst all men of the world elected him he speakes of S. Peter to whom he granted the Chaire of Doctour to be principally possessed by a perpetuall right of Priuiledge that whosoeuer is desirous to know any diuine and profound thing may haue recourse to the Oracle and Doctrine of this instruction Iohn Patriarck of Constantinople more then eleauen hundred yeares agoe in an Epistle to Pope Hormisda writeth thus Because (u) Epist ad Hormis PP the beginning of saluation is to conserue the rule of right Fayth in no wise to swarue from the tradition of our for-Fathers because the words of our Lord cannot faile saying Thou art Peter and vpon this Rocke I will build my Church the proofes of deeds haue made good those words because in the Sea Apostolicall the Catholique Religion is alwayes conserued inuiolable And againe We promise heerafter not to recite in the sacred Mysteries the names of them who are excluded from the Communion of the Catholique Church that is to say who consent not fully with the Sea Apostolique Many other Authorities of the ancient Fathers might be produced to this purpose but these may serue to shew that both the Latin Greeke Fathers held for a Note of being a Catholique or an Heretique to haue been vnited or diuided from the Sea of Rome And I haue purposely alledged only such Authorities of Fathers as speake of the priuiledges of the Sea of Rome as of things permament and depending on our Sauiours promise to S. Peter from which a generall rule and ground ought to be taken for all Ages because Heauen and Earth shall (w) Matt. 24.35 passe but the word of our Lord shall remaine for euer So that I heere conclude that seing it is manifest that Luther and his followers diuided themselues from the Sea of Rome they beare the inseparable Marke of Heresy 20. And though my meaning be not to treate the point of Ordination or Succession in the Protestants Church because the Fathers alledged in the last reason assigne Succession as one marke of the true Church I must not omit to say that according to the grounds of Protestants themselues they can neyther pretend personall Succession of Bishops nor Succession of doctrine For whereas Succession of Bishops signifies a neuer-interrupted line of Persons endued with an indeleble Quality which Deuines call a Character which caÌ„not be taken away by deposition degradation or other meanes whatsoeuer and endued also with Iurisdiction and Authority to teach to preach to gouerne the Church by lawes precepts censures c. ProtestaÌ„ts cannot pretend SuccessioÌ„ in either of these For besids that there was neuer Protestant Bishop before Luther and that there can be no continuance of Succession where there was no beginning to succeed they coÌ„monly acknowledge no Character consequently must affirme that when their pretended Bishops or Priests are depriued of Iurisdiction or degraded they remaine meere lay Persons as before their Ordination fulfilling what Tertâ—â—â—lian obiects as a marke of Heresy To day a Priest to morrow (x) Praeser çap. 41. a Lay-man For if there be no immoueable Character their power of Order must consist onely in Iurisdiction and authority or in a kind of morall deputation to some function which therefore may be taken away by the same power by which it was giuen Neither can they pretend Succcession in Authority or Iurisdiction For all the Authority or Iurisdiction which they had was conferred by the Church of Rome that is by the Pope Because the whole Church collectiuely doth not meet to ordayne Bishops or Priests or to giue them Authority But according to their owne doctrine they belieue that the Pope neyther hath or ought to haue any Iurisdiction Power Superiority Preheminence or Authority Ecclesiasticall or Spirituall within this Realme which they sweare euen when they are ordained Bishops Priests and Deacons How then can the Pope giue Iurisdiction where they sweare he neyther hath nor OVGHT to haue any Or if yet he had how could they without Schisme withdraw themselues from his obedience Besides the Roman Church neuer gaue them Authority to oppose Her by whome it was giuen But grant their first Bishops had such Authority from the Church of Rome after the decease of those men who gaue Authority to their pretended Successours The Primate of England But from whome had he such Authority And after his decease who shall conferre Authority vpon his Successours The temporall Magistrate King Henry neyther a Catholique nor a Protestant King Edward a Child Queene Elizabeth a Woman An Infant of one houres Age is true King in case of his Predecessours decease But shal your Church lye fallow till that Infant-King and greene Head of the Church come to yeares of discretion Doe your Bishops your Hierarchy your Succession your Sacraments your being or not being Heretiques for want of Succession depeÌ„d on this new-found Supremacy-doctrine brought in by such a man meerely vpon base occasions and for shamefull ends impugned by Caluin and his followers derided by the Christian world euen by chiefe Protestants as D. Andrewes Wotton c. not held for any necessary point of fayth And from whome I pray you had Bishops their Authority when there were no Christian Kinges Must the Greeke Patriarks receiue spirituall Iurisdiction from the Greeke Turke Did the Pope by the Baptisme of Princes loose the spirituall Power he formerly had of conferring spirituall Iurisdiction vpon Bishops Hath the temporall Magistrate authority to preach to assoile from sinnes to inflict excommunications and other Censures Why hath he not Power to excommunicate as well as to dispense in Irregularity as our late Soueraigne Lord King Iames either dispensed with the late Archbishop of Canterbury or els gaue commission to some Bishops to doe â—t and since they were subiect to their Primate and not he to them it is cleere that they had no Power to dispense with him but that power must proceed from the Prince as Superiour to them all and head of the Protestants Church in England If he haue no such authority how can he giue to others what himselfe hath not Your Ordination or Consecration of Bishops and Priests imprinting no Character can only consist in giuing a Power Authority Iurisdiction or as I said before some kind of Deputation to exercise Episcopall or Priestly functions If then the temporall Magistrate confers this Power c. he can nay he cannot chuse but Ordaine and consecrate Bishops and Priests as often as he confers Authority or Jurisdiction and your Bishops as soone as they are designed and confirmed by the King must ipso faclo be Ordained and Consecrated by him without interuention of Bishops or Matter and Forme of Ordination Which absurdities you will be more vnwilling to grant then well able to auoid if you will be true to your owne doctrines The Pope from whom originally you must beg your Succession of Bishops neuer receiued nor will nor can acknowledge to
Victor had excommunicated and so they came to be ranked among Heretiques vnder the name of Quartadecimam You may know what opinion S. Irenaeus had of Popes by these words Euery Church ought to haue recourse (h) Aduers Haeres lib. 3. cap. 3. to Rome by reason of her more powerfull Principality And euen in this your instance Eusebius doth only say that Irenaeus did fitly exhort Pope Victor that he should not cut off all the Churches of God which held this ancient Tradition Which exhortation doth necessarily imply that Pope Victor had Power to do it as I said already And now I pray you reflect vpon your precipitation in saying of Vactor and Stephen Their Censures (i) Pag. 50. were much sleighted and their Pride and Schisme in troubling the peace of the Church much condemned For they did nothing which was not approued by the vniuersall Church of God and the Doctrines which they condemned were no lesse then hereticall And therfore to answere also to what you obiect pag. 52. If the British and Scotish Bishops did adhere to the Churches of Asta in their Celebration of Easter after the matter was knowne to be defined by the Church their example can only be approued by such as your selfe nor can it either impeach the Authority or darken the proceeding of the Pope You cite Baronius (l) Aun 604. in the Margent who directly against you relates out of Bede that when our Apostle S. Augustine could neither by Arguments nor by Miracles wrought in their presence bow their stifnes he prophefied that they should perish by the English as afterwards it hapned But you are a fit Champion for such men and they no lesse fit examples to be alleaged against the Authority of the Roman Church 33. Your other example that S. Augustine and diuers other Bishops of Africa and their Successours for one hundred yeares together were senered from the Roman Communion is manifestly vntrue in S. Augustine and some other chiefe Bishops For when king Thrasimundus had banished into Sardinia almost all the Bishops to wit two hundred and twenty Pope Symmachus maintained them at his owne charges as persons belonging to his Communion To the Epistle of Boniface the second to Eulalius Bishop of Alexandria and the Epistle of Eulalius to the same Boniface recited by you out of which it is gathered that after the sixt Councell of Carthage for the space of one hundred yeares the Bishops of Carthage were separated from the Communion of the Roman Church that in the end they were reconciled to her Eulalius submitting himselfe to the Apostolique Sea and anathematizing his Predecessors Bellarmine (m) de Rom. Pont. l. 2. c. 25. answereth that these Epistles may iustly be suspected to be Apochryphall for diuers reasons which he alleageth and it seemeth also by your owne words that you do doubt of them For you say If their owne Records (n) Pag. 50 be true Yet if they be authenticall their meaning cannot be that all the Predecessors of Eulalius were for so long space diuided from the Roman Church the contrary being most manifest not only in S. Augustine who kept most strict amity with Zozimus Innocentius and Celestinus Popes but also in S. Fulgentius and others but it must be vnderstood only of some Bishops of Carthage and in particular of Eulalius himselfe till he being informed of the truth submitted himselfe to the Roman Church And you ought rather to haue alleaged his submission and condemnation of his Predecessors to proue the Popes Authority ouer the African Church then to obiect against it the example of some of his Predecessors of himselfe who afterward repented and condemned his owne fact You do well only to mention the Protensions and forgeries of the sea of Rome in the matter of Appeales For you may know that Bellarmine (o) Vbisup doth so fully answere that point as nothing can be more effectuall to proue the Popes Supremacy in Africa then the right of Appeales from Africa to Rome in causes of greater moment 34. Your last instance about three Chapters of the Councell of Chalcedon condemned by the fifth Generall Councell the Bishop of Rome at length consenting for which diuers Bishops of Italy and also the Bishops of Ireland did ioyntly depart from the Church of Rome is like to your former Obiections For Baronius whome you cite in your Margent hath these words as coÌ„trary to your purpose as may be Hence was it that the (q) Ann. 553. num 14. apud Spond Bishops of Venice the adicyning Regions did gathâ—â— together a Councell at Aquileia agaynst the Fifth Synode and the diuisions at length went as farre as â—reland for all these relying on the Decree of Vigilius Pope persuaded themselues that they might doe it Is this to depart from the Pope or the Roman Church to oppose that which he is thought to oppose formally because he is thought to oppose it Now as for the thing it selfe when Vigilius had afterward condeÌ„ned the three Chapters which at the first he refused to doe and had confirmed the fifth Councell which had coÌ„demned them whosoeuer opposed that Condemnation were accounted Schismatiques by the whole Catholique Church which plainly shewes the Popes Authority and therefore whatsoeuer Bishops had opposed Vigilius their example could proue no more then the faction of rebellious persons can preiudice the right of a lawfull King And in fine all this Controuersy did nothing concerne any matter of faith but only in fact and not doctrine but persons as may be seen at large in Baronius Neither was it betwixt Catholiques and Heretiques but among Catholiques themselues The rest of your Section needs no answere at all Only whereas you say Whosoeuer willfully opposeth (r) Pag. 57 any Catholique Verity maintayned by the Catholique Visible Church as doe Heretiques or peruersly diuides himselfe from the Catholique Communion as doe Schismatiques the Condition of both them is damnable What vnderstand you by Catholique verities of the Catholique Church Are not all Verityes mayntayned by the Catholique Church Catholique Verities or how do you now distinguish Heresy and Schisme from the Catholique Communion You tells vs pag. 76. that it is the property of Schisme to cut off from the Body of Christ and the hope of Saluation the Church from which it separats and is it not an Heresy to cut off from the Body of Christ hope of Saluation the Catholike Church How then can one according to your principles be a Schismatique from the Catholique Church not be iointly an Heretique CHAP. III. THE Protestants (a) Pag. 59. neuer intended to erect a new Church but to purge the Old The Reformation did not change the substaÌ„ce of Religion but only cleansed it from corrupt and impure Qualities Therfore say we the visible Church extaÌ„t before those your cleansing dayes had still hath the substance of Religion and so according to your owne ground we are safe if
now And heertofore I haue declared at large in what sense and vpon what occasion and reason S. Augustine against the Donatists made recourse to Scripture alone 26. You begin to impugne the Popes infallibility by saying that Charity-Mistaken meanes by his infallible Church only the Pope Which saying of yours doth well declare how fallible your affirmations are And that if the Pope define that to be white which the eye iudges to be blacke it must be so admitted by vs you pretend to proue out of I know not what papers of the Iesuites found in Padua in witnes wherof you alleage Paulus Soarpius a seditious scandalous and condemned Author we must by no meanes belieue you without better proofe You cite also out of Bellarmine these words If he the Pope should (b) De Rom â— Pont. lib. 4. c. 5. §§ Quodantens erre and command the practise of vice or forbid the exercise of vertue the Church were bound in conscience to belieue vices to be good and vertues to be bad Who would not thinke by these words of Bellarmine as you corrupt him that indeed we might belieue Vice to be good and Vertueil The direct contrary wherof he affirmes and from thence infers that the Pope whom the Church is obliged to obey as her Head and Supreme Pastor cannot erre in decrees of manners prescribed by him to the whole Church These be his words If the Pope did erre in commanding vices or forbidding Vertue the Church were bound to belieue that Vice is good and Vertue ill vnles she would sinne against her conscience For in doubtfull things the Church is bound to subiect herselfe to the Iudgment of the Pope and to do what he commands and not to do what he forbids and lest she should sinne agaynst her conscience she is bound to belieue that what he commands is good that what he forbids is ill For the auoyding of which inconuenience he concludes that the Pope cannot erre in Decrees concerning manners by forbidding Vertue or commanding Vice If one should proue that Scripture cannot erre in things concerning manners because otherwise Christians who are bound to belieue whatsoeuer the Scripture sayth should be obliged to belieue Vertue to be ill and Vice to be good would you infer that indeed we are to belieue Vertue to be ill and Vice to be good Or rather that indeed Scripture could not propose or command any such thing This is that which Bellarmine sayth But your selfe is he according to whose principles we might be obliged to imbrace vice c. For since you affirme that the authority (d) Pag. 1â—â— of Generall Councels is immediately deriued from Christ and that their Decrees bind all persons to externall Obedience and seing you hold that they may erre perniciously both in fayth and manners What remaines but that we must be obliged euen by authority immediately deriued from Christ himselfe to erre with the Councell and at lest externally imbrace Vice 29. You come afterward to discourse thus These men (e) Pag. 17â— deale not plainely with vs when they pretend often in their disputations against vs Scriptures Fathers Councells and the Church since in the issue their finall and infallible argument for their fayth is only the Popes Authority It were indeed a happy thing and a most effectuall way to end all Controuersies if people would submit themselues to some visible liuing Iudge by whom they might be instructed by whom it might be declared who alledge Scriptures and Fathers right or wrong Which since you and your Brethren refuse to do no wonder if we be constrained to alledge Scriptures and Fathers as you likewise do though you say that Scripture is infallible and that all Controuersies must be decided by it alone Besides though the Pope be infallible yet he is not so alone as if he did exclude all other infallible meanes for Scriptures Generall Councells and the Consent of the whole Catholique Church are also infallible And therfore as I was saying it is no wonder that we alledge other Arguments besides the decrees of Popes alone For since in our disputes with you we abound with all kind of arguments why should we not make vse therof And if you will know the reason why Councells be gathered to the great good of the Church notwithstanding the Popes infallibility you may read Bellarmine who giues (f) De Rom. Pontif lib. 4. cap. 7. §. Respondeo Id. the reason therof I hope you will grant that S. Peter was infallible and yet he thought good to gather a Councel Act. 15. for greater satisfaction of the faythfull and to take away all occasions of temptation in the weaker Christians What estimation Antiquity made of the Popes Authority I haue shewed heertofore And if some who haue written Pleas or Prescriptions against Heretiques do not without more adoe appeale (g) Pag. 173. all Heretiques to the Popes Tribunall you haue no cause to wonder since commonly the first error of all Heretiques is to oppose the Pope and the Church of Rome and therfore they must be conuinced by other Arguments Tertullian in his Prescriptions against Heretiques doth particularly aduise and direct that Heretiques are not to be admitted to dispute out of Scripture and that it is but in vaine to seeke to conuince them by that meanes and yet you hold that the Scripture is not only infallible but the sole Rule also of fayth How then do you infer against vs that if the Pope be infallible Tertullian should haue appealed all Heretiques to his Tribunall since he doth not appeale them to Scripture which yet he belieued to be infallible And neuertheles the two Authors whom you cite Tertullian and Vincentius Lyrinensis speake as much in aduantage of the Pope and Church of Rome as can be imagined If sayth Tertullian thou liue (h) Praescript cap. 36. neere Italy thou hast the Citty of Rome from thence Authority is neere at hand euen to vs Africans A happy Church into which the Apostles haue powred their whole doctrine together with their bloud And Vincentius Lyrinensis cals the (i) In sus Com. Pope and Church of Rome the Head and other Bishops as S. Cyprian from the South S. Ambrose from the North c. and others from other places the sides of the world And I cited these words out of him before who speaking of Rebaptization saith Then (k) In Com. part 1. the blessed Stephen resisted together with but before his Colleagues iudging it as I conceiue a thing worthy of him that he should surmount them as much in Fayth as he did in the authority of his place Of the opposition of some particular men to the Pope we haue spoken already and in your saying that his Authority hath beene opposed by Generall Councels we will not belieue you til you bring better proofe That the diuisions of the Easterne from the Latine Church proceeded from the ambition pretensions of the Bishop of Rome
gained by holy Scripture which ought to be far from our tongues and thoughts it being manifest that for decision of Controuersies infallibility setled in a liuing Iudge is incomparably more vsefull and fit then if it were conceiued as inherent in some inanimate writing Is there such repugnance betwixt Infallibility in the Church and Existence of Scripture that the production of the one must be the destruction of the other Must the Church wax dry by giuing to her Children the milke of sacred Writ No No. Her Infallibility was and is deriued from an inexhausted fountaine If Protestants will haue the Scripture alone for their Iudge let them first produce some Scripture affirming that by the entring thereof Infallibility went out of the Church D. Potter may remember what himselfe teacheth That the Church is stil endewed with infallibility in points fundamentall and consequently that infallibility in the Church doth well agree with the truth the sanctity yea with the sufficiency of Scripture for all matters necessary to Saluation I would therfore glaâ—ly know out of what Text he imagineth that the Church by the comming of Scripture was depriued of infallibility in some points not in others He affirmeth that the Iewish Synagogue retained infallibility in her selfe notwithstanding the writing of the Old Testament and will he so vnworthily and vniustly depriue the Church of Christ of infallibility by reason of the New Testament Especially of we consider that in the Old Testament Lawes Ceremonies Rites Punishments iudgments Sacraments Sacrifices c. were more particulerly and minutely deliuered to the Iewes then in the New Testament is done our Sauiour leauing the determination or declaration of particulers to his Spouse the Church which therefore stands in need of Infallibility more then the Iewish Synagogue D. Potter (i) Pag. 24. against this argument drawne from the power and infallibility of the Synagogue obiects that we might as well infer that Christians must haue one soueraigne Prince ouer all because the Iewes had one chiefe Iudge But the disparity is very cleare The Synagogue was a type and figure of the Church of Christ not so their ciuill gouernmeÌ„t of Christian Common-wealths or kingdomes The Church succeeded to the Synagogue but not Christian Princes to Iewish Magistrates And the Church is compared to a howse or (k) Heb. 13. family to an (l) Cant. 2. Army to a (m) 1. Cor. 10. Ephes 4. body to a (n) Matt. 12 kingdome c. all which require one Maister one Generall one head one Magistrate one spirituall King as our blessed Sauiour with fiet Vnum ouile (o) Ioan. c. 10. ioyned Vnus Pastor One sheepefold one Pastour But all distinct kingdomes or Common-wealths are not one Army Family c. And finally it is necessary to saluation that all haue recourse to one Church but for temporall weale there is no need that all submit or depend vpon one temporall Prince kingdome or Common-wealth and therefore our Samour hath left to his whole Church as being One one Law one Scripture the same Sacraments c. Whereas kingdomes haue their seuerall Lawes disterent gouernments diuersity of Powers Magistracy c. And so this obiection returneth vpon D. Potter For as in the One Community of the Iewes there was one Power and Iudge to end debates and resolue difficulties so in the Church of Christ which is One there must be some one Authority to decide all Controuersies in Religion 24. This discourse is excellently proued by ancient S. Irenaeus (p) lib. 3. c. 4 in these words What if the Apostles had not left Scriptures ought we not to haue followed the order of Tradition which they deliuered to those to whom they committed the Churches to which order many Nations yield assent who belieue in Christ hauing saluation written in their harts by the spirit of God without letters or Inke and diligently keeping ancient Tradition It is easy to receiue the truth from God's Church seing the Apostles haue most fully deposited in her as in a rich Storehowse all things belonging to truth For what if there should arise any contention of some small question ought we not to haue recourse to the most ancient Churches and from them to receiue what is certaine and cleare concerning the present question 25 Besides all this the doctrine of Protestants is destructiue of it selfe For either they haue certaine and infallible meanes not to erre in interpreting Scripture or they haue not If not then the Scripture to them cannot be a sufficient grouÌ„d for infallible faith nor a meete Iudge of Controuersies If they haue certaine infallible meanes and so cannot erre in their interpretations of Scriptures then they are able with infallibility to heare examine and determine all controuersies of faith and so they may be and are Iudges of Controuersies although they vse the Scripture as a Rule And thus against their owne doctrine they constitute an other Iudge of Controuersies besides Scripture alone 26. Lastly I aske D. Potter whether this Assertion Scripture alone is Iudge of all Controuersies in faith be a fundamentall point of faith or no He must be well aduised before he say that it is a fundamentall point For he will haue against him as many Protestants as teach that by Scripture alone it is impossible to know what Bookes be Scripture which yet to Protestants is the most necessary and chiefe point of all other D. Couell expressely saith Doubtles (q) In his defence of M. Hokers bookes art 4. p. 31. it is a tolerable opinion in the Church of Rome if they goe no further as some of them do not he should haue said as none of them doe to affirme that the Scriptures are holy and diuine in themselues but so esteemed by vs for the authority of the Church He will likewise oppose himselfe to those his Brethren who grant that Controuersies cannot be ended without some externall liuing authority as we noted before Besides how can it be in vs a fundamentall errour to say the Scripture alone is not Iudge of Controuersies seing notwithstanding this our beliefe we vse for interpreting of Scripture all the meanes which they prescribe as Prayer Conferring of places Consulting the Originals c. and to these add the Instruction and Authority of God's Church which euen by his Confession cannot erre damnably and may affoard vs more help then can be expected from the industry learning or wit of any priuate person finally D Potter grants that the Church of Rome doth not maintaine any fundamentall error against faith and consequently he cannot affirme that our doctrine in this present Controuersy is damnable If he answere that their Tenet about the Scriptures being the only Iudge of Controuersies is not a fundamentall point of faith then as he teacheth that the vniuersall Church may erre in points not fundamentall so I hope he will not deny but particuler Churches and priuate men are much more obnoxious to error in such
doe not separate themselues from the Society of the infected persons how do they free themselues depart from the common disease Do they at the same tyme remaine in the company and yet depart from those infected creatures We must then say that they separate themselues from the persons though it be by occasion of the disease Or if you say they free their owne persons frō the common disease yet so that they remaine still in the Company infected subiect to the Superiours and Gouernours thereof eating drinking keeping publique Assemblies with them you cannot but know that Luther and your Reformers the first pretended free persons from the supposed common infectiō of the Roman Church did not so for they endeauoured to force the Society whereof they were parts to be healed and reformed as they were and if it refused they did when they had forces driue them away euen their Superiours both spirituall and temporall as is notorious Or if they had not power to expell that supposed infected Community or Church of that place they departed from them corporally whome mentally they had forsaken before So that you cannot deny but Luther forsooke the external Cōmunion and Company of the Catholique Church for which as your selfe (z) Pag. 75. confesse There neyther was nor can be any iust cause no more then to depart from Christ himselfe We do therfore inferre that Luther and the rest who forsooke that visible Church which they found vpon earth were truly and properly Schismatiques 35. Moreouer it is euident that there was a diuision betweene Luther and that Church which was Visible when he arose but that Church cannot be sayed to haue deuided her selfe from him before whose tyme she was in comparison of whome she was a Whole and he but a part therefore we must say that he deuided himselfe went out of her which is to be a Schismatique or Heretique or both By this argument Optatus Meliuitanus proueth that not Caecilianus but Parmenianus was a Schismatique saying For Caecilianus went (a) Lib. 1. cont Parm. not out of Maiorinus thy Grandfather but Maiorinus from Caecilianus neyther did Caecilianus depart from the Chayre of Peter or Cyprian but Maiorinus in whose Chaire thou sittest which had no beginning before Maiorinus Since it manifestly appeareth that these things were acted in this manuer it is cleere that you are heyres both of the deliuerers vp of the holy Bible to be burned and also of Schismatiques The whole argument of this holy Father makes directly both against Luther and all those who continue the diuision which he begun and proues That going out conuinceth those who go out to be Scismatiques but not those from whome they depart That to forsake the Chaire of Peter is Schisme yea that it is Schisme to erect a Chaire which had no origen or as it were predecessour before it selfe That to continue in a diuision begun by others is to be Heires of Schismatiques and lastly that to depart from the Communion of a particuler Church as that of S. Cyprian was is sufficient to make a man incurre the guilt of Schisme and consequently that although Protestants who deny the Pope to be supreme Head of the Church do thinke by that Heresy to cleere Luther frō Schisme in disobeying the Pope Yet that will not serue to free him from Schisme as it importeth a diuision from the obedience or Communion of the particular Bishop Diocesse Church Countrey where he liued 36. But it is not the heresy of Protestants or any other Sectaries that can depriue S. Peter and his Successours of the authority which Christ our Lord conferred vpon them ouer his whole militant Church which is a point confessed by learned Protestants to be of great Antiquity and for which the iudgement of diuers most ancient holy Fathers is reproued by them as may be seen at large in Brereley (b) Tract 1. Sect. 3. subd 10. exactly citing the places of such chiefe Protestants And we must say with S. Cyprian Heresies (c) Epist. 55. haue sprung and Schismes been bred from no other cause then for that the Priest of God is not obeyed nor one Priest and Iudge is cōsidered to be for the time in the Church of God Which words do plainely condemne Luther whether he will vnderstand them as spoken of the Vniuersall or of euery particular Church For he withdrew himselfe both from the obedience of the Pope and of all particular Bishops and Churches And no lesse cleere is the sayd Optatus Meliuitanus saying Thou caust not deny (d) Lib 2. cont Parm. but that thou knowest that in the Citty of Rome there was first an Episcopall Chaire placed for Peter wherin Peter the head of all the Apost es sat wherof also he was called Cephas in which one Chaire Vnity was to be kept by all least the other Apostles might attribute to themselues ech one his particular Chaire and that he should be a Schismatique and sinner who against that one single Chaire should erect another Many other Authorities of Fathers might be alledged to this purpose which I omit my intention being not to handle particular controuersies 37. Now the arguments which hitherto I haue brought proue that Luther and his followers were Schismatiques without examining for as much as belonges to this point whether or no the Church can erre in any one thing great or small because it is vniuersally true that there can be no iust cause to forsake the Communion of the Visible Church of Christ according to S. Augustine saying It is not possible (e) Ep. 48. that any may haue iust cause to separate their Communion from the Communion of the whole world and call themselues the Church of Christ as if they had separated themselues from the Communion of all Nations vpon iust cause But since indeed the Church cannot erre in any one point of doctrine nor can approue any corruption in manners they cannot with any colour auoid the iust imputation of eminent Schisme according to the verdict of the same holy Father in these words The most manifest (f) De Bapt. Lib. 5. ç. 1. sacriledge of Schisme is eminent when there was no cause of separation 38. Lastly I proue that Protestants cannot auoid the note of Schisme at least by reason of their mutuall separation from one another For most certaine it is that there is very great difference for the outward face of a Church and profession of a different fayth between the Lutherans the rigid Caluinists and the Protestants of England So that if Luther were in the right those other Protestants who inuented Doctrines far different from his and diuided themselues from him must be reputed Schismatiques the like argument may proportionably be applied to their further diuisions and subdiuisions Which reason I yet vrge more strongly out of D Potter (g) pag. 20. who affirmes that to him to such as are conuicted in conscience of the
coÌ„futation can there be then by your own words the Belieuer sees For if he see how doth he belieue Or if he belieues how doth he see Especially since you say he belieues and sees vpon the same formall obiect or motiue Yet that Scripture is knowne by it selfe you proue out of Bellarmine who saych That the Scriptures (i) De verb. Deilib 1. çap. 2. which are contayned in the Propheticall and Apostolicall Writings be most certayne and diuine Scripture it selfe witnesseth But these words will proue to be against your selfe For Bellarmine in that place disputing agaynst the Swenckfeldian Heretiques who denyed all Scriptures sayth That he doth not alledge (k) Ibid. Testimonies of Scripture as if he thought that his Aduersaries made any great account of them but lest the Scriptures the Authority whereof his Aduersaries did sometymes abuse agaynst vs who reuerence them may be thought to fauour their doctrine Is this to affirme that Scripture is certainely and euidently knowne by Scripture Or rather contrarily to say that it must first be belieued before it be powerfull to persuade And therefore immediatly after the wordes by you cited which are The Scripture selfe witnesseth he adds these which you as you are wont leaue out whose predictions of things to come if they were true as the euent afterward did manifest why should not the Testimonies of things present be true Where you see that he proues not the Scripture by that beame of light which euidenly shines in Scripture but by predictions which we grant to be a good inducement or as Diuines speake an Argument of credibility and yet no infallible ground of fayth to belieue that Scriptures are diuine and much lesse a beame of light cleerly conuincing vs that Scripture is Scripture For one may be inspired to prophesy or speake truth in some point and for others be left to humane discourse or error as it hapned in Balam and the friends of Iob. And therfore Bellarmine in that very place brings other extrinsecall Argumentes as Miracles exemplar and visible strange punishments of such as presumed to abuse holy Scripture c. Which euidently shewes that he intended to bring Arguments of Credibility and not infallible grounds of fayth wherby we belieue that Scripture is Scripture which we must take from the infallible Testimony of the Church by meanes of Tradition wherof Bellarmine sayth This so necessary a point to wit that (m) Deverb Dei nonseripro lib. 4. c. 4. there is some diuine Scripture cannot be had from Scripture it selfe Wherby it is manifest that you plainely corrupt Bellarmines meaning when you go about to proue out of him that Scripture can be proued by Scripture alone the contrary wherof he affirmes and proues at large against the Heretiques of these times The place which you cite of Origen only proues that those who already belieue the Canonicall Bookes of Scripture may proue out of them that Scripture is diuinely inspired as S. Peter (n) Epist. 2. vers 21. sayth Neither doth the Authority of Saluianus proue any thing els 10. Your saying that we yield to the Church an absolute (o) Pag. 144.145 vnlimited Authority to propound what she pleaseth and an vnlimited power to supply the defects of Scripture I let passe as meere slaunders As also that the Authority of the Church is absolute not (p) Pag. 144. depending on Scripture but on which the Scripture it selfe depends And you cannot be ignorant of that which hath been so often inculcated by Catholique Writers that the Scriptures in themselues do not depend on the Church but only in respect of vs who learno from her what Bookes be Canonical Scripture which is to say not the Scriptures but our weake vnderstanding and knowledge of Scripture relies on the Church which our Sauiour Christ commandes vs to heare And your selfe grant that the Church (q) Pag. 142.143 is the ordinary outward meanes to present and propound diuine verities to our Fayth You will not deny that your knowledge of the Trinity Incarnation c. depends on Scripture will you thence in fer that the Blessed Trinity Incarnation c. in themselues depend on Scripture as if God had not been God vnlesse Scripture had beene written Besides to such as belieue Scripture we may proue the Church herselfe by Scripture and she in all her definitions doth consult examine and submit herselfe to Scripture against which she neuer did nor euer can define any thing in this sense also she depends on Scripture But to make good your slaunder you (r) Pag. 144. cite Bellarmine after your wonted fashion If we take away (s) De effect Sacram. lib. 2. cap. 25. § Tertium testimonium the Authority of the present Church of Rome this of Rome is your addition and of the Trent-Councell the decrees of all other Ancient Councels and the whole Christian fayth may be questioned as doubtfull for the strength of all doctrines and of all Councels depends vpon the Authority of the present Church Would not one thinke by these words that the strength of all doctrines depeÌ„ds on the Church wheras Bellarmine only sayth that we could not infallibly know that there were such Generall Councels and that they were law full Councels and that they defined this or that but because the present Church which cannot erre doth so belieue and teach vs. Which words demonstrate that Bellarmine doth not speake of fayth or doctrines in themselues but in respect of vs. And do not you your selfe teach that it is the Church which directs vs to Scripture and that she likewise is the ordinary outward meanes to present and propound diuine Verities without which Propesition no obiect can be conueyed to our (t) Pag. 142.143 fayth And what is this but to acknowledge that in the ordinary way without the guidance direction and Proposition of the Church we haue no fayth at all 11. You â—ikewise cite these words out of (u) De Eccles mil. lib. 3. cap. 10 §. Ad haec necesse est Bellarmine The Scriptures Traditions and all doctrines whatsoeuer depend on the Testimony of the Church he meanes say you that of Rome without which all are wholy vncertayne But Bellarmines words are these Since the Scriptures Traditions and all doctrines whatsoeuer depend vpon the Testimony of the Church all things will be vncertaync vnles we be most assured which is the true Church You see Bellarmine speakes not of the particular Church of Rome as you in your PareÌ„thesis would make him seeme to speake And as for the Vniuersall true Church what principle of Atheis me is it as you very exorbitantly (w) pag. 145 affirme to say that if we did not know which were the true Church we could haue no certainty of Scriptures Traditions or any thing els Do you thinke that it were safe to take the Scriptures vpon the credit of a false Church As wel might you take them vpon the
you proue by the Authority of Nilus a Schismatique an Heretique and a professed enemy of the Church of Rome and of Protestants also vnles they haue a mind to belieue that the holy Ghost proceeds not from the Sonne And how can Nilus affirme as he doth that the Pope refuseth to haue the groundes of that dissension fayrely heard and discussed in a generall Councell For vnder Vrbanus the second a Councell was held at Barium in Apulia where the Graecian Bishops being present were conuicted of errour in denying God the holy Ghost to proceed from God the Sonne S. Anselme (l) Anselm lib. de protes Spirit sanct our Primate of Canterbury being the chiefe disputant in the behalfe of the Latins Whereupon the Graecian Emperour that then ruled Alexius Comnenus became Catholicke and caused the Graecian Bishops to hold Communion with the Roman Church so long as he liued Baronîus tom 12. An. 1118. as Baronius sheweth And greater cause I haue to wonder that you would now reuiue this Cauill of Nilus For to say nothing of the Councell of Lyons in France vnder Gregory the tenth Baron ad an 1274. where the Patriarke of Constantinople was present and other Hierarchs of Greece to the number of 40. besides innumerable Bishops and Prelates of the Latins being more then a thousand in all some Kings being there in person and all by their Embassadors namely Michael Paleologus and Andronicus his Sonne Emperours of the East in whose name their Embassadours recanted abiured all errors against the Roman Church namely that about the Holy Ghost to pretermit I say this instance who doth not know that in the generall Councell at Florence the matter was debated vnder Eugenius the fourth where the Graecians with their Emperour and their Patriarch and the Legates of three other Patriarches and the Armenians and the Deputyes of the Ethiopians were present and a perfect concord was then made from which the Greekes departing afterward were subdued and made slaues to the Turke And that they might see the cause of their destruction to be pertinacity in their Errour about the Holy Ghost vpon the very feast of Pentecost as Bellarmine proueth the Citty of Constantinople was taken their Emperour killed Lib. 2. de Christo cap. 30. and their Empyre extinguished And it is well knowne that the true cause of their dissension whereupon a separation at last ensued was the Controuersy between Ignatius lawfull Patriarch of Constantinople whom the Pope still kept in his Communion and Photius an ambitious Intruder into the Patriarchate by strength of the Imperiall Power Which Schisme hath enlarged it selfe by addition of the heresy about the procession of the holy Ghost For want of better matter you bring heere that old Obiection about the Councels of Constance and Basil defining that the Councell is aboue the Pope The Answere whereof you may read in Bellarmine that (m) De Câ— lib. 2. c. â—â— the Popes who were deposed were in time of Schisme when it was not knowne who was the true Pope in which case the Church hath power to prouide herselfe of an vndoubted Pastour To say nothing that two of those Popes voluntarily renounced their pretence As for the decree of the Councell of Constance that all ought to obey a Generall Councell he answeres that either it is meant for time of Schisme or if it be vniuersall that the Councell could not make any such definition of fayth because it was neuer confirmed by the Pope for as much as concernes that point And the Councell of Basill was in that particular expresly repealed by diuers Popes and the whole Church receiued Eugenius as true Pope who yet was deposed by that Councell To disproue the Popes infallibility you cite Victoria saying Giue me (n) Relect. 4. de Potest Papae Conc. prop. 12. ad fin Clements Linus Siluesters and I will leaue all to their pleasure But to speake no worse of latter Popes they are much inferiour to those ancient Ones But you alleage this Author according to your wonted manner that is very vnfaithfully For he in that place speakes only of Dispensations in Lawes the facility and frequency wherof Victoria dislikes in these latter times Which being wholy matter of Fact doth nothing preiudice the Popes Infallibility for points of Fayth 30. To proue that there is nothing but vncertainty in prouing the Popes infallibility (o) Pag. 176. you alledge some place out of Bellarmine but with so great confusion and fraude that they serue only to proue the certainty of your ill dealing Bellarmine distinguishes two Questions The one whether S. Peter had any Successor in being head of the Church and this he sayth is most certayne and De iure diuino or by diuine institution The other whether it be de iure diuino or of diuine institution that S. Peters Successour must be the particular Bishop of Rome and this he sayth is not so certayne though it be true because if S. Peter had placed his Sea in some other Citty or els had chosen no particular Citty at all yet his Successour had been iure diuino Head of the Church howbeyt in that case he had not beene the particular Bishop of Rome Neuertheles because S. Peter did in fact choose Rome it is vpon that supposall a matter of fayth that the Bishop of Rome S. Peters Successour is all one As for example by the Law of God all lawfull Superiours are to be obeyed and therefore though it be not of diuine institutioÌ„ that this or that man should be superiour yet supposing that in fact he be Superiour the general diuine Law pitches fastens vpoÌ„ him obligeth vs to obey him in particular This being presupposed let vs now heare what you alledge out of (q) De Rom. Pont. lib. 2. cap. 4. §. Restant Bellarmine S. Peter sate many yeares Bisshop of Rome there he died You chaÌ„ge the very QuestioÌ„ Bellarmines words in the Title of the Chapter are Petrum Romae vsque admortem Episcopum fuisse That S. Peter was Bishop of Rome till his death And he explaines his meaning to be That S. Peter was Bishop of Rome and that he kept that Bishoprick till his death which is a different thing from what you say That S. Peter sate many yeares Bishop of Rome and there he died For he might haue been many yeares Bishop of Rome and also died at Rome and yet not died Bishop of Rome as one may be Bishop of London for some yeares and dy at London yet not dye Bishop of London Now Bellarmine sayth that S. Peter died Bishop of Rome which indeed was the maine point and proues that the Bishop of Rome is S. Peters successour wheras to dye at Rome is accidentall to his being Bishop of Rome and in fact diuers Bishops of Rome died in France and els where But let vs goe on You say that the first reason by which Bellarmine proues that S.
Potters Answere though yet so as that euen in this first Part I omit not to answere such passages of his as I find directly in my way and naturally belong to the points wherof I treat in the second Part I answere D. Potters Treatise Section by Section as they lie in order I heer therefore intreate the Reader that if hartily he desire satisfaction in this so important question he do not content himselfe with that which I say to Doctour Potter in my second Part but that he take the First before him eyther all or at least so much as may serue most to his purpose of being satisfied in those doubts which presse him most For which purpose I haue caused a Table of the Chapters of the first Part together with their Titles Arguments to be prefixed before my Reply 7. This was then a chiefe reason why I could not be very short But yet there wanted not also diuers other causes of the same effect For there are so seuerall kinds of Protestants through the difference of Tenets which they hold as that if a man conuince but one kind of them the rest will conceiue themselues to be as truly vnsatisfyed and euen vnspoken to as if nothing had been said therein at all As for example some hold a necessity of a perpetuall visible Church and some hold no such necessity Some of them hold it necessary to be able to proue it distinct from ours others that their businesse is dispatched when they haue proued ours to haue beene alwayes visible for then they will conceiue that theirs hath been so and the like may be truly said of very many other particulers Besides it is D. Potters fashion wherein as he is very far from being the first so I pray God he proue the last of that humour to touch in a word many triuiall old obiectioÌ„s which if they be not all answered it will and must serue the turne to make the more ignorant sort of men belieue and brag as if some maine vnanswerable matter had been subtily purposely omitted and euery body knowes that some obiection may be very plausibly made in few words the cleere and solid answere whereof will require more leaues of paper then one And in particuler D. Potter doth couch his corruption of Authors within the compasse of so few lines and with so great confuseones and fraude that it requires much time paines and paper to open them so distinctly as that they may appeare to euery mans eye It was also necessary to shew what D. Potter omits in Charity Mistaken and the importance of what is omitted and sometimes to set downe the very words themselues that are omitted all which could not but add to the quantity of my Reply And as for the quality thereof I desire thee good Reader to belieue that whereas nothing is more necessary theÌ„ Bookes for answering of Bookes yet I was so ill furnished in this kind that I was forced to omit the examination of diuers Authors cited by D. Potter meerely vpon necessity though I did very well perceaue by most apparant circumstances that I must probably haue been sure inough to find them plainely misalleadged and much wronged and for the few which are examined there hath not wanted some difficulties to do it For the times are not for all men alike and D. Potter hath much aduantage therein But Truth is Truth and will euer be able to iustify it selfe in the midst of all difficulties which may occurre As for me when I alledge Protestant Writers as well domesticall as forraine I willingly and thankefully acknowledge my selfe obliged for diuers of them to the Author of the Booke entituled The Protestants Apology for the Roman Church who calls himselfe Iohn Brereley whose care exactnes and fidelity is so extraordinary great as that he doth not only cite the Bookes but the Editions also with the place and time of their printing yea and often the very page and line where the words are to be had And if you happen not to find what he cites yet suspend your iudgment till you haue read the corrections placed at the end of his booke though it be also true that after all diligence and faithfulnes on his behalfe it was not in his power to amend all the faults of the print in which prints we haue difficulty inough for many euident reasons which must needs occur to any prudent man 8. And for asmuch as concernes the manner of my Reply I haue procured to do it without all bitternes or gall of inuectiue words both for as much as may import either Protestants in generall or D. Potters person in particuler vnles for example he will call it bitternesse for me to terme a grosse impertinency a sleight or a corruption by those very names without which I do not know how to expresse the things and yet wherein I can truly affirme that I haue studied how to deliuer them in the most moderate way to the end I might giue as little offence as possibly I could without betraying the Cause And if any vnfit phrase may peraduenture haue escaped my pen as I hope none hath it was beside and against my intention though I must needs professe that D. Potter giues so many and so iust occasions of being round with him as that perhaps some will iudge me to haue been rather remisse then moderate But since in the very Title of my Reply I professe to maintaine Charity I conceiue that the excesse will be more excusable amongst all kinds of men if it fall to be in mildnes then if it had appeared in too much zeale And if D. Potter haue a mind to charge me with ignorance or any thing of that nature I can and will ease him of that labour by acknowledging in my selfe as many more personall defects then he can heape vpon me Truth only and sincerity I so much valew and professe as that he shall neuer be able to proue the contrary in any one least passage or particle against me 9. Rules to be obserued if D. Potter intend a Reâ—oynders In the third last place I haue thought fit to expresse my selfe thus If D. Potter or any other resolue to answere my Reply I desire that he will obserue some things which may tend to his owne reputation the sauing of my vnnecessary paines and especially to the greater aduantage of truth I wish then that he would be carefull to consider wherein the point of euery difficulty consists and not impertinently to shoote at Rouers and affectedly mistake one thing for another As for example to what purpose for as much as coÌ„cernes the question betweene D. Potter and Charity Mistaken doth he so often and seriously labour to proue that fayth is not resolued into the Authority of the Church as into the formall Obiect and Motiue thereof Or that all points of Fayth are contained in Scripture Or that the Church cannot make new Articles of
fayth Or that the Church of Rome as it signifies that particuler Church or diocesse is not all one with the vniuersall Church Or that the Pope as a priuate Doctour may erre With many other such points as will easily appeare in their proper places It wil also be necessary for him not to put certaine Doctrines vpon vs from which he knowes we disclaime as much as himselfe 10. I must in like manner intreate him not to recite my reasons discourses by halfes but to set theÌ„ down faythfully entirely for as much as in very deed concernes the whole substance of the thing in questioÌ„ because the want somtime of one word may chance to make voyd or lessen the force of the whole argumeÌ„t And I am the more solicitous about giuing this particuler caueat because I find how ill he hath complied with the promise which he made in his Preface to the Reader not to omit without answere any one thing of moment in all the discourse of Charity Mistaken Neither will this course be a cause that his Reioynder grow too large but it will be occasion of breuity to him and free me also from the paines of setting downe all the words which he omits and himself of demonstrating that what he omitted was not materiall Nay I will assure him that if he keep himselfe to the point of euery difficulty and not weary the Reader and ouercharge his margent with vnnecessary quotations of Authors in Greeke and Latin and sometime also in Italian and French togeather with prouerbs sentences of Poets and such grammaticall stuffe nor affect to cite a multitude of our Catholique Schoole deuines to no purpose at all his Booke will not exceed a competent size nor will any man in reason be offended with that length which is regulated by necessity Agayne before he come to set downe his answere or propose his Arguments let him consider very wel what may be replied and whether his owne obiections may not be retorted against himselfe as the Reader will perceiue to haue hapned often to his disaduantage in my Reply against him But especially I expect and Truth it selfe exacts at his hand that he speake cleerly and distinctly and not seeke to walke in darknes so to delude and deceiue his Reader now saying and then denying and alwayes speaking with such ambiguity as that his greatest care may seeme to consist in a certaine art to find a shift as his occasions might chance eyther now or heereafter to require and as he might fall out to be vrged by diuernty of seuerall arguments And to the end it may appeare that I deale plainely as I would haue him also do I desire that he declare himselfe concerning these points 11. First whether our Sauiour Christ haue not alwayes had and be not euer to haue a visible true Church on earth whether the contrary doctrine be not a damnable Heresy 12. Secondly what visible Church there was before Luther disagreeing from the Roman Church and agreeing with the pretended Church of Protestants 13. Thirdly Since he will be forced to grant that there caÌ„ be assigned no visible true Church of Christ distinct from the Church of Rome and such Churches as agreed with her when Luther first appeared whether it do not follow that she hath not erred fundamentally because euery such errour destroies the nature and being of the Church and so our Sauiour Christ should haue had no visible Church on earth 14. Fourthly if the Roman Church did not fall into any fundamentall errour let him tell vs how it can be damnable to liue in her Communion or to maintaine errours which are knowne confessed not to be fundamentall or damnable 15. Fiftly if her Errours were not damnable nor did exclude saluation how can they be excused from Schisme who forsooke her Communion vpon pretence of errours which were not damnable 16. Sixtly if D. Potter haue a mind to say that her Errours are damnable or fundamentall let him do vs so much charity as to tell vs in particuler what those fundamentall errours be But he must still remember and my selfe must be excused for repeating it that if he say the Roman Church eâ—â—ed fundamentally he will not be able to shew that Christ our Lord had any visible Church on earth when Luther appeared let him tel vs how Protestants had or can haue any Church which was vniuersall and extended herselfe to all ages if once he grant that the Roman Church ceased to be the true Church of Christ and consequenly how they can hope for Saluation if they deny it to vs. 17. Seauenthly whether any one Errour maintayned against any one Truth though neuer so small in it selfe yet sufficiently propounded as testified or reuealed by almighty God do not destroy the Nature and Vnity of Faith or at least is not a grieuous offence excluding Saluation 18. Eightly if this be so how can Lutherans Caluinists Zuinglians and all the rest of disagreeing ProtestaÌ„ts hope for saluation since it is manifest that some of them must needs erre against some such truth as is testified by almighty God either fundamentall or at least not fundamentall 19. Ninthly we constantly vrge and require to haue a particuler Catalogue of such points as he calls fundamentall A catalogue I say in particuler and not only some generall definition or description wherein Protestants may perhaps agree though we see that they differ when they come to assigne what points in particuler be fundamentall and yet vpon such a particuler Catalogue much depends as for example in particuler whether or no a maÌ„ do not erre in some point fundamentall or necessary to saluation and whether or no Lutherans Caluinists and the rest do disagree in fundamentals which if they do the same Heauen cannot receiue them all 20. Tenthly and lastly I desire that in answering to these points he would let vs know distinctly what is the doctrine of the Protâ—stant English Church concerning them and what he vtters only as his owne priuate opinion 21. These are the questions which for the present I find it fit and necessary for me to aske of D. Potter or any other who will defend his cause or impugne ours And it will be in vaine to speake vainely and to tell me that a Foole may aske more questions in an houre then a wiseman can answere in a yeare with such idle Prouerbs as that For I aske but such questions as for which he giues occasion in his Booke and where he declares not himselfe but after so ambiguous and confused a manner as that Truth it selfe can scarce tell how to conuince him so but that with ignorant and ill-iudging men he will seeme to haue somewhat left to say for himselfe though Papists as he calls them and Puritans should presse him contrary wayes at the same tyme and these questions concerne things also of high importance as wherevpon the knowledge of Gods Church true Religion and consequently Saluation of