noe Bishop in the Church euer yet was estemed or did pretende to be aboue the Roman Bishop since therefore S. Peeter was putte in charge of the flocke of Christ ād made Pastor of the Church ād since this office of generall Pastor doth remaine it followes that the Bishop of Rome is ād still was he because he is and euer was confessedlie the first Bishop in the Church Secondlie the Pope of Rome by your confession hath exercised the Office of Generall Pastor of the Church these thousād yeares ād by the Coūcells the same is cleere neither was there any other all this tyme who did exercise or take on him that Office not the Bisshop of Antioch nor of Constantinople for these Bisshops and the most ancient Councells as the Nicene Constantinopolitan and others did acknowledge Rome before those Sees Neither was the See without a Successor all this tyme as I haue shewed before because the Pastor and Foundation is necessarie to the Flocke and Building therefore the Roman was and is he 14. Thirdly the fathers of the aūciēt Church as S. Augustine sainct Ierom sainct Cyprian sainct Ireneus and others affirme cleerelie that the Roman Bisshop is sainct Peeters Successor S. Hieron ad Damas S. Aug. ep 162. S Cypr. ep 55. Optatus cont Donat l. 2. S. Iren. l. 3. c. 3. Tenet ista sancta sede gubernacula regendarum cunct orbis Ecclesiarum Theod. ep ad Ren p◠Ro. S. Leo ep 84. Sainct Ierom calles that See S. Peeters Chaire adding that the Church is built on that rocke sainct Augustine putts a Catalogue of the Bisshops there first Peeter then Linus c. and saith that the Principallitie of the Apostolicall Chaire hath euer flourished in the Church of Rome sainct Cyprian calles it allso sainct Peeters Chaire and the principall Church whence Priestlie vnitie hath come The like hath Optatus sainct Ireneus doth adde that for the more powerfull principalitie of that church it is necessarie that all Churches haue recourse vnto it That holie seate saith Theodorette holds the sterne of gouerning the Churches of all the world sainct Leo knewe this in practise but heare his words It is by great order prouided that all should not claime all things to themselues but in euery Prouince should be some who should haue the prime sentēce amonge the bretheren and againe others placed in greater Citties should vndergoe greater care by whom the care of the Vniuersall Church should come to the one seate of sainct Peeter Fourthlie this is the iudgment of the Church acknowledging in the Roman Bisshop authoritie and power to call to moderate and to approoue generall Councells and it is declared in the great Lateran Councell that the Roman Church hath by Gods disposition the principalitie of ordinarie power ouer all the Churches Conc. Lat. sub Innoc. 3. c. 5. And finallie both East and West haue defined it in the Councell of Florence Cōc Flor. defin Wee define say the Fathers there that the holie Apostolique See and Bisshop of Rome hath the Primacie ouer the whole world and that the Roman Bisshop is the Successor of Blessed Peeter Prince of the Apostles and the true Vicar of Christ and heade of the whole Church and Father and master of all Christians and that vnto him in S. Peeter is giuen by our Lord Iesus Christ full power to feede rule and gouerne the vniuersall Church The same both Armenian Aethiopiā Vide Cocc ◠1. l. 7. art 4. 5. 6. 7 8. Russite and Assiriā Christiās haue acknowledged So that for this Primacie of the See Apostolique wee haue the Fathers Testimonie Theologicall Arguments Definitions of Generall Councells and the Testimonie of the Spirit in them the worlds consent and Gods word THE THIRD CHAPTER The Bishop of Rome President in Generall Councells 15. YOur next pretense is that the Pope hath no title to be President in generall Councells or to call or approoue them though he hath practised these things now of late Before I answere to this argument to shewe more cleerelie wherein the force of it doth lie you are with me to obserue two things the first is that there are two kinds of calling a Councell One is Eclesiasticall in way and forme of ordination the other is Temporall in way of execution The Question is of the former which is prīcipall ād wee are in it to see whether any man in the world hath such authoritie to call a Councell so as the Bishops are in regard of that calling bound to come The second obseruation is that one may haue the place of President in his owne name or in the name and place of another to whom principallie it belongeth and this Presidencie may be either to some temporall end as to keepe exterior order and peace in the Congregation or to a spirituall end which is to iudge and define matters of beleefe and to establish Church discipline by decree The question is of this second kinde of Presidencie not of the first And who is principall in this kinde as hauing power to doe it either by himselfe or by his deputie whereunto notwithstanding your obiection I answeare that it is the Pope to whom belongs properlie to call moderate and approoue Generall Councells because he is aboue another Bishops and Successor to sainct Peeter in the gouerment of the whole Church Being aboue other Bishops and their Pastor he hath power to call and to commaund them to meete in Councell when the Generall Church-affaires doe require it which no Bysshop or Patriarke besides can doe none of them all being Superior to all the rest Neither cā the Emperour or any other secular Prince doe it not principallie because he is not Gouernour of the Church or Church busines nor subordinatelie if by some principall cause he chance to moued thereunto because his power is not extended to the latitude of the Church or ouer all Nations and all Bisshops whatsoeuer nor euer was So that his commaund vnto such men as were out of his Dominions were of no power to bringe them together more then the commaund of the kinge of Spaine or of the Spanish Bisshops would serue in France When the Bisshops are assembled the Pope still remaines as he was before their Pastor and their Foundation and there-their director their moderator and Presidēt And this the Generall Councell of Chalcedon did acknowledge in the Person of Leo whom they stiled their Father and their Heade and themselues his Sonnes and his Members 10. The Catholique Church allso did euer acknowledge in the Pope this right of Presidencie which I prooue by all the Generall Councells that euer yet haue bene For the later held in the West you freelie graunt it and if you did not the proofe were easie frō Trent Lions Florence and Rome it selfe Of the former held in Greece I prooue the same * Quibus tuquidem SICVT MEMBRIS CAPVT praeras in his qui tuum tenebant ordinem beneuolentiam praeferens
their Pastor he redeemed them not for he gaue his life for his sheepe If they were our Sauiours sheepe they were also commended to sainct Peeter 10. 10. for our Sauiour made him Pastor of HIS sheepe without excepting any By this you may vnderstaÌ„d a place of S. Augustine obiected some tymes Si hoc Petro tantuÌ„ c. tract 50. in IoaÌ„ Cuius Eccesiae Petrus Apostolus propter Apostolatus sui primatum gerebat figurata generalitate personam Idem Aug. in Io. tr 6. Your exception heere is that what was spoken to Peeter was spoken to all and that Peeter did represeÌ„t the Church wheÌ„ he tooke Authoritie from Iesus Christ Answeare If you meane it was in proportion and secondarilie spoken to all the rest and not onelie to the Apostles but allso to all other lawfull Pastors in the world I graunt it but this will not make theÌ„ all equall If you meane that it was equallie and immediatelie said to all your glosse is false and contrarie to the text He said to him Peeter feede my sheepe Peeter was nor all the Apostles As for the representation I answeare that S. Peeter tooke the office at the haÌ„ds of Iesus Christ for himselfe to vse and for his successors aÌ„d for all the Pastors of the Church as farre at it should be couenient to make them partakers of this power and sollicitude vlt. propter primatum quem in discipulis habuit id in psal 108. for the common good of the whole Church and he in this did represent them all according as I haue declared because all his successors and all inferior Pastors to the worlds end could not in their owne persons be there to receaue this power and the Church her selfe was no otherwise to take the power I speake of but by the haÌ„ds of her Pastor because the coÌ„munitie of Christians could not exercise that office of gouerning or being Pastor in regard this communitie was the flocke 8. By that which I haue said here in this Chapter you finde excluded your fellowes tale of Phocas first instituting the office of a generall Pastor in the Church For if the scripture may be beleeued Io. 21. cited in Coccius and Gualterius our Sauiour did institute this office or Authoritie And thus much was acknowledged by the Fathers of the primitiue Church aÌ„d exercised by the Popes Successors to saint Peeter before Phocas euer appeared in this world It is true that Emperours might second what our Sauiour had ordained before to the end the Imperiall decree thus waiting on the diuine institutioÌ„ meÌ„ respecting the temporall power might stand in feare to transgresse who would otherwise preuaricate notwithstanding the divine institution so many forbeare stealing for feare of temporall lawes whom Gods eternall lawe would not moue to forbeare In this kinde Phocas decreed that the Pope should be accompted heade though the title were due to him by vertue of a higher InstitutioÌ„ aÌ„d he stiled heade of Bishops before this as you may finde in the fourth generall a Quibus tu quidem sicut membris caput praeeras c. Conc. Chalc. ad Leonem rogamus tuis decretis nostrum honora in iudicium sicut nos capiti in bonis adiecimus consonantiam sic summitas tua filijs quod decet adimpleat ibid. Councell Neither doth the title of Oecumenicall or Vniuersall Bisshop in the seÌ„se wee take it any way derogate vnto the rest their titles of Bisshops as Philosophers giuing the title of vniuersall cause to a cause supereminent as to the suÌ„ne or to God hereby take not away the name of cause from particular in this lower world as from horses fire men But yet if you take vniuersall in an other sense not for that which is eminent ouer many particulars but for that which so hath all within it selfe that none answearing to the name is without it as b Si vnus Patriarcha vniuersalis dicitur Patriarcharum nomen caeteris derogatur S Greg. l. 4. ep 36. put that of causes in the same forme Si vna causa vniuersalis dicitur causarum nomeÌ„ caeteris derogatur And tell me now in what sense the proposition is true Si vniuersalem me Papam vestra sanctitas dicit negat se hoc esse quod me fatetur vniuersum â— Greg. l. 7. ep 36. indic 1. ad Eulog Alex He that in this sense should arrogate the title of Vniuersall Bisshop were a fore runner of Antichrist saint Gregorie did vnderstand it so neither is the Sunne an vniuersall cause nor the Pope vniuersall Bisshop because there are more causes besides the sunne and more Bisshops besides the Pope THE SECOND CHAPTER The Pope aboue other Bishops I haue donne with the comparison of sainct Peeter to the rest of the Apostles it followes now that I consider what comparison his successor the Pope hath vnto the Patriarkes and other Bishops Your labour is to equall others with him in authoritie To this purpose you first make vse of the Grecians proceedings in the Councell of Chalcedon where the Byshops you say did equall the Constantinopolitan See with the Roman I answeare first that this adequation pretended was not in originall or prime authoritie but in matter of priuiledge as in the words it is expreslie set downe to enioy equall priuiledges c. aequis senioris regia Roma priuilegiis frâ—â—â— c. Conc. Chalc. acâ—â— 16. Now priuiledge is a distinct thinge from originall authoritie and accessorie thereunto The priuiledges they did ayme at were that the Bisshop of Constantinople should in his proportion haue a maiestie in Ecclesiasticall affaires aboue other Sees Rome excepted in regard that Constantinople was then the Imperiall seate as before Rome had bene and therefore that he should take place of other Patriarckes aÌ„d be second or next after him of Rome And with all that he should ordaine Metropolitans in the Dioceses of Pontus Asia and Thrace These priuiledges they did aime at and hereby would haue had a kinde of analogie with the Romane Bishop this attempt of the Grecians Leo then Pope would by no meanes approue and the decree which the Bishops had coÌ„ceaued he did anulle Wee do vtterly saith he make void and by the authoritie of the blessed Apostle Peeter S. Leo. Ep. 55. ad pul Aug. do with a general definition wholy disanull the consents or decrees of the Bishops which were repugnant to the rules of the Canons made at Nice Hence I answeare secondlie that the decree wanting the consent and approbation of the See Apostolique was not Oecumenical and therefore were it vnderstood of original authoritie as it is euident it was not and that the Byshops would therin not by proportion onely but absolutly haue equalled an other Bishop with the Roman it would not suffice because a Councell when it is not Oecumenicall doth not containe the full power of the Church to define or make decrees but may mistake and erre 10. Since
Imperatores vero AD ORNANDVM decentissimè praesidebant Concil Chalced. Relat. ad Leonem Papam Insuper contra ipsum cui VINEAE custodia à Saluatore commissa est extendit Dioscorus insaniam id est contra tuam quoque Apostolicam Sanctitatem Ibid. Confidentes quia lucente apud vos Apostolico radio vsque ad Constantinopolitanorum EcclesiaÌ„ consuetè guberuand illum spargentes hunc sapiùs expanditis cò quòd absque inuidia consueueritis vestrorum bonorum participatione ditare domesticos Ibid Rogamus igitur tuis DECRETIS nostrum honora iudicium sicut nos CAPITI in bonis adâ—ecimus consonantiam sic Summitas tua FILâ—IS quod decet adimpleat Ibidem because Donatus Stephanus and Marinus were Presidents in the a Subscrip eight Councell as Legates of AdriaÌ„ the secoÌ„d Two Peeters one an Archdeacon the other an Abbot were Presidents in the b Subscrip seuenth in the name of Adrian the first Two Priests Peeter and George together with Iohn a Deacon were Presidents in the c Act. Conc. Zonar vit Coâ—nstaÌ„t Sixt for Agatho Eutichius in the name of Vigilius was President in the d Zonar in vita Iustiniani Vide Ep Eutichij ad Vigil Petimus praesidente nobis vestra ocatitudine c. fi collat 1 fift Paschasius and Iulianus in the e Conc. Chalc. in Relat. ad Leonem Fourth for Leo great Cyrillus for Celestine in the f Conc. Ephes Relat. ad Imp. Marcellin in Chron. Libertat in Breuiar c. 5. Niceph. l. 14. c. 34 third The Bishops who were at the g Ep. ad Damasum ap Theodoret. l. 5. c. 9. secoÌ„d Councell call Damasus their Heade aÌ„dit became Oecumenicall in regard is was by the Pope approued who before had called a generall Councell but the Bysshops could not all meete at Rome as he had appointed by reasoÌ„ of the Arian Heresie And therefore the Easterne Bisshops mette in one place vnder Nectarius the westerne in an other vnder Damasus who afterwards did approoue the Decrees of both parties and so came the councell to be one and Oecumenicall In the h Subscrip See Card. Peron Replique l. â— c. 35. se qq first Hosius Vitus ad Vincentius were Presidents in place of Syluester And by this induction it is cleere that in the Catholique Church the Popes right of Presidencie was not onely acknowledged but practized euer Neither can you alleage good Authoritie or any one approued Author who saith that euer yet any Priest Bishop or Patriarch was President in any Generall Councell in his owne name and not in the Popes which you should doe and prooue allso that the Church approued it as lawfull before you depriue the Pope of possession which he hath had many hundred yeeres by your confession and euer as I haue prooued and by Christs Institution too who made him in S. Peeter the FoundatioÌ„ and Pastor of the Church 17. As for the Emperours Conc. Chalc. in Relat. ad Leon. I answeare out of the Councell of Chalcedon that they were equiuocallie Presidents not for Iudgment and Definition but for peace and Ornament And so much Constantine the greate whom you preferre before those vnto whom he gaue place will confesse for himselfe and his Successors God saith he to the Nicene Fathers hath made you Priests Ap. Ruffin l 1. c. 2. and giuen you power to iudge of vs you may not be iudged by men wherefore looke for Gods iudgment onely amongst your selues and let your dissentions whateuer they be be reserued to Gods examine You are giuen vs as Gods and it is not conuenient that maÌ„ iudge Gods but he alone of whom it is written God stoode in the middest of Gods and in the middest God doth iudge For Approbation of Generall Councells my answeare and proofe is the same First the Roman Bisshoppe because Successor to sainct Peeter is the Foundation aÌ„d Pastor of the Church aÌ„d CouÌ„cells for him did our Sauiour pray that his faith should not faile he was charged to confirme his Brethren and this will be necessarie till the worlds end Generall Councells haue euer desired his Approbation his definition and sentence in the midst of the Bisshops or presented in his name to them or theirs by him approoued not els hath bene constantlie stood vnto by the Catholique Church at all tymes and no Decrees euer admitted which he reiected and refused to confirme Which Vniuersall Iudgment and Generall consent of the World together with the authoritie of the Scripture make his title so cleere that you shall neuer be able to dispossesse the present Pope of this honour or to winne future tymes to your opinion THE FOVRTH CHAPTER Of the Councells of Nice and Constance 12. BEfore I leaue this matter of the Pope aÌ„d Councells I must answere two other obiections that you make in the one you oppose the councell of Franckford to the secoÌ„d of Nice in the other the Laterane couÌ„cell to that of Constance hereby to prooue that the Church doth contradict her self and erre Touching the former two you pretend that the Councell of Franckford hath condemned the Nicene Your Proofe is taken out of the a Caroline Bookes The reason pretended is because the Nicene decred such honour to the pictures of Saincts as is due to God Of these Bookes 〈◊〉 what Beâ—â—lar doth write l. â— de Imag. â— 14. 15 I answere First that in the Councell of Franckford there is no such thing to be found Secondlie your Accusation is false for the honour due to God is not giuen to pictures in the Nicene Councell but another inferiour wherefore if at FraÌ„ckford diuine honour had ben denied to pictures yet the Councells would agree Thirdlie your proofe or witnes discredits his owne storie and ouer throwes himself for he tells vs that the Councell condemned at Franckford was held at Constantinople in Bithynia If at Constantinople how then in Bithynia Constantinople is in Thrace Nice indeede is in Bithynia See the ground quakes vnder the feete of your argument Fourthlie those Caroline bookes out of which you make this argument saie that the Councell condemned at Franckford was held without the Popes Authoritie See Baron an 794. In that of Nice the Popes Legates subscribed to euerie Acte a Allata est in medium quaestio de noua Graecorum Synodo quam de adorandis imaginibus Constantinopoli fecerunt in qua scriptum habebatur vt qui imaginibus Sanctorum ita vt deificae Trinitati seruitium aut adorationem non impenderent anathema iudicarentur Qui supra sanctissimi Patres nostri omnimodis orationem seruitutem eis impendere renuentes contempserunt atque consentieÌ„tes condemnarunt Liber Carolin in Praefat. b Definimuscum omni diligentia venerandas sanctas Imagines dedicandus in Templis sanctis Dei collocandus habendasqua Quo scilicet per hanc Imaginum pictarum inspectionem omnes qui contemplantur ad
of it which he declares largelie in old Heretiques and the same wee see in the moderne by experience and then concludes that it is therefore verie necessarie in regard of so many windings of errour to direct the line of propheticall and Apostolicall interpretation according to the rule of the ecclesiasticall and Catholique sense 83. This is heere sufficient for Traditions diuine and Apostolicall which the Spiritte of the Church being to leade vnto all truth doth distinguish from such as are false and superstitious and doth easilie defend against all you can say The Scripture hath not one word against them as anie man will easilie see who doth but marke what he doth reade and will not take speaking for writing which the most ignorant with attention can distinguish in them selues being able to doe the one and not the other And the Fathers are cleere as you haue seene requiring euer tradition as indeed it is required for the Scripture and for the sense though the written word be perfect within its owne bouÌ„ds You allso though you loath it neuer so much must needs admitte of it for the Scripture for the number of Canonicall bookes for the pars of them for the sense and for other things you being not able anie other way in the world to answeare anie man who would denie them or to persuade him to beleeue that you haue the word of God or anie part of it Moreouer this doctrine is by generall consent of the Church defined in the Councells of Nice and Trent and hath beene the meanes whereby the Catholique Church hath conserued vntill now the word of God and therefore the contrarie open Heresie being opposite vnto Gods expresse words which I haue put downe in the begining of this chapter and to the beleefe of the old Fathers of generall Councells and of the Church 84 The text all scripture is profitable c. is answeared in the first booke c. 4. It is profitable true but it is not all sufficient It is sufficient too in one kinde for the written word but nor in all kinds not all-sufficient Tradition and diuine Assistance are necessarie too each in their kinde doth concurre Tradition is more generall then writing it deliuers the scripture and the sense of it and can teach also without writing and did before the Scripture was extant This Tradition relieth vppon the diuine Assistance whereof I haue discoursed largelie the third booke and neede not repeate it heere Particular causes in this lower world are sufficient in their kinde a horse to generate a horse a man to generate a man but the effect is not produced without the concurrence of higher causes The Sunne and a man saith the Philosopher produce a man The inferiour and superiour causes are sufficient in their kinds and yet vnles the prime and most vniuersall cause doth concurre nothing is produced You are to prooue that the Scriture is sufficient in all kinds if you will exclude tradition To all your peaching your mouth is profitable and sufficient too in that kinde you need not two mouthes but wthout a tongue you cannot doe it Mouth and tongue are profitable and sufficient in their kindes but you cannot doe it without braines braines and witte are profitable and sufficient in their kinds but all will not serue without learning So that you see the argument is not good it is profitable and to all therefore all-sufficient 85. And thus I am come at last to the end of this part also hauing answeared the chiefest things which you oppose in the decrees of the Church and shewed how the Church representatiue is vniustlie accused of errour The Decrees of generall Councells were beleeued before Caluin had any Schoole and will be when he hath neuer a Scholler In them is the highest TEACHING AVTHORITIE in the world and therefore the Schollers of Iesus Christ must beleeue what they define The sheepe are not to choose their pasture ould wiues and plowmen are not to decide Controuersies in Religion they are not to asceÌ„d the Chaire and expound Scripture to the world No the Pastors must doe this Mat. 28. Act. 20.10.21 Ephes 4. The Apostles aÌ„d their successors were sent to teach God put Bisshops to rule the Church he charged Peeter to feede his flocke The pastors are to teach The sheepe to learne 86. In generall Councells the Pastors are are assembled their Authoritie is vnited there to moue the Whole to teach the Church The Church is to followe their common direction and therefore it belonges to Gods prouidence to assist them defining And the whole Church vniuersallie doth beleeue that such Councells are assisted and cannot erre learned vnlearned people and Pastors all beleeue it and all the Church as I shewed you before cannot erre The Apostles did beleeue it allso and so vnderstood the promise of Iesus Christ Act. 15. Io. 16. when he said that the holie Ghost should teach them all truth God rules and moues the lower world by the higher The heauens vertue doth begette and conserue things heere on earth To the heauens for the regularitie of their Motion he hath addicted an Intelligence Our Sauiour hath so disposed his Church that the Laitie are mooued and gouerned in matters of Religion by the Clergie Rom. 20. Rom. 10. The Pastors begette and conserue in the people faith by preaching the the word of God And to the Pastors for the Regularitie of their Motion he hath left an Assisting Spirit Io. 16. the Holie Ghost the Spirit of Truth The Christian truth is to be learned in the Schoole of Iesê° Christ this Schoole is the the Catholique Church The highest CHAIER in it is a Perfect Oecumenicall COVNCELL No man hath or can with any apparence pretend as will appeare in the examination a fuller participation of the TEACHING POWER then such a Councell 87. To make an end therefore coÌ„sider well what I do saie That definitioÌ„ which the Catholique Church vniuersallie Of Church proposition there is more in the third booke where I haue allso told you how the diuine authoritie aÌ„d the Church authoritie doe moue both in seuerall kinds to the same acte doth take for a sufficâ—eÌ„â— direction of her faith by way of Proposition IS FREE froÌ„ errour Otherwise the Catholique Church vniuersallie might erre which is vnpossible as I haue declared in the third booke Now the Catholique Church vniuersallie doth take the definition of the Councell which SHEE ESTEEMETH Oecumenicall to be a sufficient direction of her faith by waye of Proposition as I haue declared there also And hence it comes that the definition of a Councell ESTEEMED by the Catholique Church Oecumenicall is free froÌ„ errour Will you haue another way without recourse to such a Councell Take this What the Bisshops diffused those I meane who are in the Catholique communioÌ„ do vniformelie teach is true If you should oppose that they are many and that you cannot know the doctrine of them all being diffused I would answere that by their communion with the See Apostolique their doctrine is knowne sufficiently for this purpose aÌ„d their communion is very manifest vnto all Where you must note that it is the exteriour professioÌ„ which I atteÌ„d vnto PropositioÌ„ this is easilie knowne and this as farre as it is vniforme in ALL Bishops in the Catholique communioÌ„ be they many or few so they be all is WARRANTED by the Holie Ghost and by this exteriour proposition or commoÌ„ doctrine whatsoeuer els any of them thinke secretly in their mindes I am to be directed Ephes 4. Mat. 28.10.16 He Christ gaue Pastors that wee be not wauering Teach all Nations and behold I am with you The spirit of truth shall teach you all truth If you dispute againe meddle not with points not yet agreed vppon among vs. Talke not of things controuerted in our Schooles at this daie The proposition which you oppose if you will oppose me must be a Catholique proposition agreed on generally by the Church Other things I can dispute in our owne Schooles and with such as know them better then you doe
you cannot speede there you endeuoure by the Nicene Councell to prooue the Bishop of Alexandria to be thus equall to the Roman and that the Romā Bisshop was there limited by the Councell as well as others I haue looked on that canon but see nothing for your purpose The Bisshop of Alexandria is not said there to be equall to the Roman Bishop neither is there any speach of limiting the Roman to the west as you pretend The words are Conc. Nicen can 6. Let the auncient custome be kept in Aegypt Libia and Pentapolis that the Bisshop of Alexandria haue power ouer all these because the Roman Bisshop hath such a custome Here the Popes custome is a reason whie the Bisshop of Alexandria is to haue power ouer Aegypt Libia and Pentapolis whereby is insinuated that the Bisshop of Alexandria therein depended on the Popes accustomed manner of gouermēt which argues a superioritie in the Pope not an equalitie in the other Your explicatiōs you must prooue to be text if you will haue me to beleeue thē Meane while neither in this Councell can you finde any thing for your cause vnles wee childishlie will take a glosse for the text and giue you equall authoritie with a generall Coūcell in assertiōs and decrees If the Romā Bisshop had there bene with his owne consent limited to the west for exercise of Patriarchal authoritie I would āsweare that he sustaining diuers offices in one and the same person might be more limited in regard of the one then of the other his Patriarchall power might be contained with in the west though his Pastorall Iurisdiction reached ouer the whole Church as man hath the power of seeing restrained vnto coloured Obiects but his power of vnderstanding reaches further to the whole latitude of being 11. Failing againe this way you stand still like a stocke and refuse to acknowledge any successor to sainct Peeter in his generall care and Pastorall office because you cannot see what necessitie there is of a Successor It seemes you are growne dull with disputing and would heare me rather speake I am contented A Successor in that office was ād is necessarie first because the Church at all tymes needs a generall Pastor ād visible Foundatiō as well as it did in the begining since therefore the Christiā Church is to endure till the worlds ēd Visible Pastor such as sainct Peeter was the Pastor ād visible Foūdatiō must likewise endure to confirme and to direct it secondlie Peeter in person could not feede ād rule all the sheepe of Christ from his tyme till the words end our Sauiour therefore prouiding the Church of a Pastor that might feede ād rule thē did in the persō of S. Peeter vnderstand his Successors in that office that so the sheepe might allwayes haue a Pastor to rule and feede them Otherwise the greatest part of the flocke that is all after S Peeters dayes till the worlds end should haue no generall Pastor here on earth though they wanted him no lesse yea more then did the Christians in sainct Peeters time Thirdlie the best forme of gouerment is Monarchicall something tempered with Aristocracie and the more Nations are added to the Church the more neede of a Monarch One is vndeuided in himselfe his iudgment and his principles are the same but a multitude is diuided ād the greater the multitude the more varietie of iudgmēt the greater the varietie of inclinatiōs dispositiōs affectiōs ād iudgment is the more neede there is of a cause of Vnitie to keepe them in One which would neuer be if euery mā freelie might chose his way and be a rule vnto himselfe Wee see this in Heretiques who hauing no visible cause of vnion in matter of faith doe runne sundry wayes Arius one Nestorius another and so to the very last Philosophers ould and moderne haue gonne seuerall waies and filld the Schooles with questions which will neuer be decided their iudgments being directed by no One. Seuerall Nations haue diuers lawes according to the different opinions of their Rulers and Lawe-makers the like would be in England if each Shire were independent of another and of a Monarch or common couerner In religion allso each Minister would haue his way Now the Church was to haue it it all Nations and in them is infinite varietie of iudgment 10. 10. id c. 21. wherefore our Sauiour to containe them all in one did ordaine a Monarch there shall be made one Fould and one Pastor Peeter feede my sheepe Act. 20. And tempering this Monarchie with Aristocracie he putte Bysshops allso to rule the Church Fourthlie it was necessarie that in the Church there should be one to attend generallie to the whole to call generall Councells to be President there to containe the multitude of Bishops in Vnitie and to haue a care principallie of the Churches generall affaires which care our Sauiour gaue to sainct Peeter as an Ordinarie Office in that he made him Pastor of his Fold the Christian Church and if it were necessarie then in the Apostles daies much more it is now Fiftly Pastors are to continue in the Church till the end of the world by the doctrine of S. Paul therefore the chiefe Pastor is likewise to continue which could not be in one person therefore in diuers If you say that our Sauiour himselfe is chiefe Pastor Ephes 4. I replie that amonge visible Pastors one is chiefe though subordinate vnto Christ and he is to remaine as well as the rest of the clergie and his existence is necessarie for the Gouerment of the Church Our Sauiour doth continuallie teach and baptize but by others and so doth he cōtaine the Church in Vnity and gouerne by subordinate meanes ordained and instituted for this purpose as God lights the world with the Sūne though if he had so pleased he could haue donne it otherwise 12. What you pretend about Election of a Successor is not hard the Church designes the Person and then he receaues power from our Sauiour in vertue of the first institution as man disposeth matter in the generation of a man and nature presents it so prepared vnto the Creator who by vertue of the first institution of mankinde inspires a sowle which the generant could not make It is true that the Churches action is hindered sometymes by Schisme or other meanes as mans generation is likewise hindred otherwhile but such hindrances are in tyme remoued and the Successor designed Neither is the Succession interrupted properlie in this tyme because this Election is a continuation of it So that all you haue said about the tyme of Schisme might haue bene spared because then the Church was busie in determining a successor though she were hindred sometymes more sometymes lesse according to the difficulties which did occurre 13. To conclude your opposition in this matter you take vpon you not to knowe who doth succede sainct Peeter But if you had lookt aboute you could not haue doubted First because