Selected quad for the lemma: authority_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
authority_n	bind_v	church_n	law_n	2,400	5	5.0344	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
B23579	A Reply of two of the brethren to A. S. wherein you have observations on his considerations, annotations, &c. upon the apologeticall narration : with a plea for libertie of conscience for the apologists church way, against the cavils of the said A. S., formerly called M. S. to A. S. : humbly submitted to the judgements of all rationall and moderate men in the world : with a short survey of W. R. his Grave confutation of the separation, and some modest and innocent touches on the letter from Zeland and Mr. Parker's from New-England.	Goodwin, John, 1594?-1665.; Steuart, Adam. Some observations and annotations upon the Apologetical narration. Selections.; Parker, Thomas, 1595-1677.	1644 (1644)	Wing G1198	108,381	124

a with-drawing of Christian communion from persons walking inordinately is an Ordinance or means appointed by God for the reducing and reclaiming of them is evident 2 Thes 3. 6. with the 14. We warn you Brethren in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ that yee withdraw your selves from every brother that walketh inordinately c. and vers 14. If any man obey not this our saying in this letter note him and have no company with him that he may be ashamed Clearly implying that to with-draw communion and to deny Christian fellowship unto Christians walking inordinately is both a means of Divine institution and otherwise proper and commodious in it self to reclaim and bring them to Repentance There is the same reason of Churches in this behalf which there is of persons Churches being nothing else but persons embodied Secondly suppose there were no such sufficient or satisfactory remedy for the inconvenience mentioned in the way of the Apologists as A. S. conceives to be in his which yet there is as hath in part already and will afterwards further appear yet Lawyers have a saying that a mischief is better then an inconvenience A man had better run the hazard of a greater loss then expose himself to a daily wasting and consuming of his estate A man had better be wet through and through with a soaking showre once a yeer then be exposed in his house to continuall droppings all the yeer long The Delinquencie of whole Churches such I mean as is matter of publique scandall or offence to their neighbour Churches is not an every dayes case no more in the way of Congregationall then of Presbyteriall Government you acknowledge the rarity of it in your Government and we affirm it in ours Now then much better it is to want a remedy against such an evill which possibly may not fall out within an age though it be greater when it doth fall then it is to expose our selves to continuall droppings I mean to those daily inconveniences which wee lately shewed to be incident to the Classique Government Thirdly they that implead the Congregationall way for being defective as touching the matter in hand seem to suppose that God hath put a sufficiency of power into the hands of men to remedy all defects errours and miscarriages of men whatsoever Else why should it be made matter of so deep a charge and challenge against the way of the Apologists that it affords not a sufficient and satisfactory remedy either to prevent or heal all possible miscarriages in all churches I would willingly know in case your Church transcendent your supreme Session of Presbyters should miscarry and in your Doctrinall determinations give us hay stubble and wood in stead of silver gold and precious stones a misprision you know wel-neer as incident to such Assemblies yea and to those that are more generall and oecumeniall then so as obstinacy in errour is to particular Congregations what remedy the poor Saints and Churches of God under you have or can expect against such a mischiefe or what remedy you now have in the way of your government for the recovering of your selves out of such a snare more then what the Congregationall way affordeth for the reclaiming of particular Churches Nay the truth is your Government in such a case is at a greater loss in respect of any propable or hopefull remedy against such an evill which yet is an evill of a most dangerous consequence then the other way of Government is for the reduction of particular Churches That hath the remedy of God as hath been shewed though not the remedy of men and yet that remedy of God which it hath is appliable by men and those known who they are viz. the Churches of Christ neer adjoyning but if your great Ecclesiastique body be tainted or infected though never so dangerously Corpora morbis majora patent Sen. God must have mercy on you and that in a way somewhat at least more then ordinary if ever you be healed For that Directive power in matters of Religion which had you left it in other mens hands might in this case through the blessing of God have healed you being now only in your own hath not only occasioned that evill disease that is upon you but also leaves you helpless and cureless by other men A. S. makes the greatest part of his arguments against that way of Government which hee opposeth of what iffs I mean of loose and impertinent suppositions and cases that are not like to fall out till ursa major and ursa minor meet unto which kind of arguments every whit as much as enough hath been answered already but he shall shew himself a soveraign Benefactour indeed to the Presbyterian cause if he can find out a remedy satisfactory and sufficient against that sore evill we speak of incident to his Government in the case mentioned which is a case both of a far worse consequence then the obstinacy of a particular Church in some error and I fear of a far more frequent occurrence then the world is willing to take notice of Fourthly let us ponder a little how sufficient and satisfactorie that remedie against the evill now in consideration is which the Classique politie under the protection of A. S. his pen so much glorieth in let us compare the two remedies of the two corriving polities together as A. S. hath done after this manner But the Presbyteriall Government saith he p. 39. is subject to none of these inconveniences For the collective or combined eldership having an Authoritative power all men and Churches thereof are bound by Law and Covenant to submit themselves thereunto Every man knoweth their set times of meeting wherein sundrie matters are dispatched and all things carried by pluralitie of voyces without any schisme or separation Not to be troublesome to the man about his Grammaticals wherein his pen slips oftner then Priscian will tolerate in such a piece because in these he opposeth nothing but a mans conceit either of overmuch scholarship or overmuch care in him Here is a remedie indeed against some inconveniences but whether the inconveniences be not much better then the remedie adhuc sub Judice lis est But what are the inconveniences The first is that Churches being equall in authoritie one cannot binde another to give any account in case of offence given Well what is the remedie for this in Classique constitution The combined Eldership having an authoritative power all men and Churches thereof are bound by Law and Covenant to submit themselves c. What is another inconvenience In case other churches were offended in the proceedings of a particular church they could not judge in it for then they should be both judge and partie in one cause c. Well what is the remedie in Presbyterian politie The combined Eldership having an authoritative power all men and Churches c. What is a third inconvenience That Congregationall Government giveth no more power or authoritie

to a thousand Churches over one then to a Tinker yea to the Hangman over a thousand c. What is the Presbyterian remedie for this The combined Eldership having an Authoritative power c. The combined Eldership with their Authoritative power together with a Law or Covenant whereby all men and Churches under them are bound to submit unto them are as bars of iron and gates of brasse to keep out al those inconveniences irregularities defilements pollutions out of the Presbyterian Temple whereunto it seems the Congregationall temple for want of such stoure and tight provisions lies open But First what if your combined Eldership hath neither footing nor foundation in the Word of God It is not the serviceablenesse of it against a thousand such inconveniences as were mentioned that will justifie it Souls offering sacrifice was a means to prevent the scattering of the people from him yet Samuel told him that he had done foolishly in it and it cost him his Kingdom 1 Sam. 13. 9. 13. 14. So the putting forth of Vzz●h's hand to stay the Ark was a meanes to keepe it from being shaken but yet the doing of it cost him his life Peters valour and zeale in drawing his sword and laying about him was a likely meanes of rescuing his Master but the Lord Christ preferred the imminent danger of his life before such a rescue and check'd the sword that was drawne for him againe into the sheath That Law and constitution in the Papacie whereby all men all Churches thereof are bound to submit their judgements in matters of Faith to the decision of the Papall Chair is as soveraigne a remedie against all those inconveniences named as that for which Classique Authoritie is so much magnified by you and yet it is never the lesse abominable in the eyes both of God and men The Question is not which Government will serve most turnes but which is most agreeable to the will and Word of God If that of Presbyterie be defective this way as there is extreame cause to feare it is this defect cannot be recompenced or redeemed by any other commendation whatsoever Secondly neither can we with any tolerable satisfaction informe our selves out of all your discourse either what you meane by that Authoritative power which you claime to your combined Eldership nor yet how or by what or whose Authoritie they come to be invested with it As for the power sometimes you deny it to be Magisteriall or such which may not lawfully be declin'd when a man cannot submit unto it without disobedience to God otherwise you make it so irrefragably sacred as if it were no lesser sin then perjurie it selfe to detract it Again for the investiture of your Eldership with this power whether they arrogate it unto themselves and are their own carvers or whether the Civill State and Parliamentarie Law or whether the free and joynt consent of those over whom this power is exercised do conferre and derive it upon them you informe us not but count an ignoramus better then a verdict But till you do resolve us by what Authoritie or power this Authoritative power comes into the hand of your combined Eldership we shall thinke it safer to stand to the hazard and dammage of all the inconveniences spoken of then to subject to it Thirdly if the Law of the State be the first and most considerable band or tye upon men to submit unto the power of your combined Eddership as you seeme here to imply in saying that all men all Churches thereof are bound by Law c. then 1. you must acknowledge that the root and base of your Government is potestas secularis secular authoritie and then how is it Ecclesiastick or spirituall A man may as well bring a clean thing out of an unclean in Jobs expression as make a spirituall extraction out of a secular root Secondly it will rest upon you to prove that the Civill State hath a power to forme and fashion the government of the Churches of Christ Yea thirdly and lastly it will be demonstratively proved against you that you resolve the government of the Churches of Christ in the last resolution of it into the humors wills and pleasures of the world yea of the vilest and most unworthy of men But Fourthly and lastly the Authoritative power of your combined Eldership being granted unto you we doe not see how the inconveniences you find in the Congregationall way will bee much better solv'd in yours For first what if a particular Congregation under the jurisdiction of your Eldership reflecting upon the Oath or Covenant it hath taken for subjection thereunto as likewise upon all other engagements that way as unlawfull shall peremptorily refuse to stand to the awards or determinations of it what will you do in this case How will your combined Eldership remedy this inconvenience What will you excommunicate this Church The Apologists in their way do little lesse and that by a power farre lesse questionable then yours nay in your interpretation they doe every whit as much Or will you deliver them over Brachio seculari to be hamper'd and taught better then it seems you can teach them by prisons fines banishment c. O A. S. remember you tar'd the Apologists for comporting in a very small matter in comparison with the Arminians in case it had been true and will you comply with the Papists in a matter of this high nature Churches had need take heed how they chuse men for their Guardians that will so dispose of them if they please them not Besides you know what was said in the second chapter touching the power of the Magistrate in this case And what if in the Session of your combined Eldership there be no such thing as plurality of votes concerning excommunication of such a Church as it is very possible that in such a meeting the truth may find just as many friends as error hath and no more is not the remedy you spake of now in the d●st Again secondly to touch upon the second inconvenience mentioned when your combined Eldership proceeds against a particular Church amongst you upon offence taken is not this Eldership as well Party as Judge If you think you have every whit the better of it because your Eldership though it be both Party and Judge yet hath an authoritative power over those whom it judgeth I answer first that as our Saviour told Pilate He could have no power against him except it were given him from above no more can your Eldership have over those whom it judgeth in this case Now how uncertain and faint the probabilities are that they have any power over them given them from above hath been formerly shewed at large And if that power which your Eldership claimeth and exerciseth over the Church arraigned be not from above then the Apologists remedy is farre better and safer then yours Secondly to hold and maintain that all those that have an Authoritative power