Calvinistical dregs and poison were instilled into it he might upon warrantable terms procure a Re-union with the Catholick Church But how should this Re-union be made By giving up to Roman Catholicks all the points of English Doctrins and Discipline No such matter But this he knew That in Books of Controversy among ten Points disputed there are not two wherein either of the Churches are interested and that most of the few real Substantial differences might be qualified by a moderate interpretation and condescendence 11. But whensoever such a business as this is either agitated or talked of you Mr. Bagshaw and your party smile and deride us poor Roman Catholicks as if we vainly framed to our selves great hopes and advantages by such good Christian designes or Writings of Protestants But truly you are deceived We indeed as we ought are glad purely for their sakes that either designe or write sincerely and ingenuously in matters of Religion But such designs and Writings are harmeful to us in our present condition and the reason is plain because they being the works of particular persons without any publick commission of persons that have no sufficient influence upon the whole English Church and State they produce little effect On the contrary they give only an opportunity to such malicious tongues and pens as Yours to Alarme the whole Kingdome both against them and us 12. But if it would please his sacred Majestie or the Parliament to allow a modest Conference not Dispute between a certain number of sober learned English Protestants and Catholicks by means of which a clear view might be given what the peculiar Doctrines by Authority established on both sides are and what place may be allowed for moderate Interpretations and Condescensions in all probability the success could not but be most happy the whole Kingdome yea all Christendom would stand in a maze to see what an inestimable blessing has been so long wanting to England and how little cause there was it should be refused How would the Civil and Ecclesiastical State of these nations be established and united in interests with all the Christian world almost How free should we all be from the least danger of being infected with the venom of Sectaries and how secure from their designes For then they would to all eyes appear in their distinct bodies it would be seen who how many and how qualified they are and permission being allowed them for a private liberty of exercising their Religions respectively any succeeding tumults would be both easily repressed and their cause appear inexcusable In a word Religion as it might by common Advice be setled in this Kingdom would deserve to be the envy and pattern to all the world besides being easily freed from many abuses much complained of but hard to be rectified in other Catholick Countries 13. And whence comes the obstruction to so inconceivable and universal a blessing as this but meerly from such English Protestants as You and Your partie are permitted to call your selves From You it proceeds that the Ecclesiasticks of this Kingdom have not hitherto so much as endeavoured to convert us Roman Catholicks to their Religion They have been unwilling to be informed what the true Differences between us and themselves are As if true Reformed Religion did formally consist in a blind heady and voluntary breach of Unity with all Churches before them They have condescended to admit conferences with Sects whose peculiar complexion consisting in an incompossibility with their government renders them irreconcileable unless they yield up both their Faith and Estates Yea for such Enemies satisfaction if any thing could satisfie them they have submitted to alterations even in their Church office and Discipline Lastly to content such English Protestants as You they have connived at your defiling altering and destroying that which heretofore was called and by Law still is truly the English Protestant Religion As will appear even by what You are suffered here to write against eminent persons of their Church 14. You proscribe and expose to publick hatred Doctour Gunning and Master Doctour Gunning Thorndike as persons that would seduce English subjects to Popery And what are your Proofs Forsooth Doctour Gunning has preached before the King and since printed and beyond your skill to disprove has demonstrated that the Lent fast is an Apostolical Institution Where lies the Popery It is You say against express scripture But is it therefore popery Do no Sects contradict express Scripture but Roman Catholicks Behold the natural Logick of a Fanatick However let this express scripture be produc'd Non liquet either in your Text or Margin Well at least say You it is against an Act of Parliament Let me ask You and Your fellowes a Question Will You be content to stand to all Acts of Parliament both as to their Prefaces and Clauses as Declarations of Faith and this under the penalty of being esteemed Papists Then I here denounce You a Papist For has not the whole Liturgy and Discipline of the English Church been ratified by Acts of parliament But what will You say to an Act of Parliament that has declared and like a Heretick burnt Your Covenant as a damned trayterous conspiracie Take heed therefore You be not found your self a papist As for the Lent fast You know that by the Lawes of the Kingdom Bishops are appointed the exacters and dispensers of the Observance of Lent which shewes it to be esteemed an Ecclesiastical observance as well as Civil So that I believe Dr. Gunning is in little danger from your charge 15. God send Mr. Thorndike as good a deliverance For his Charge consists M. Thorndike of more then one or two or three points of Accusation and every one of them seems to have an air of popery Let them be examined First say you he tells us in print that the Pope is not Antichrist Item That Papists are not Idolaters Item by consequence that all are Schismaticks who upon that score do refuse Communion with them These are terrible points against good Mr. Thorndike Yet alas not all his popery neither 16. A time was when such as You Mr. Bagshaw could both undoe and destroy English subjects meerly upon an accusation of Popery without proofe God be thanked it is otherwise now Therefore You ought at least to have produced some proofes that these Assertions are direct popery But not having done it let me advise you what kind of proofes will be expected You must know therefore that it is a Law of the English Church that whatsoever is found in the Antient Canons and is not expressly revoked by Ecclesiastical Authority in England is to be esteemed still in force And common sence and reason will tell you that before you can by such allegations as these prove any one to have deserted the English Churches doctrine and be turned a papist you must produce some Authentick Declaration of this Church by which the Pope is decided to be Antichrist and
the Papists Idolaters But that is impossible for you to do You will perhaps to little purpose cite the names of certain Calvinistical Writers that as you hypocritically called themselves English Protestants but withall you will take notice that all very Protestants have laughed at them some have been angry and demonstrated the direct Negative If you were a live member of the English Church you would know that the English Church would be no Church if the Pope were Antichrist and the Papists Idolaters For would you acknowledg that to be a Church that enjoyes her whole Authority and Jurisdiction from Antichrist and Idolaters Is she not rather a member and abortive of Antichrist This is plain reason Mr. Bagshaw and consequently the inference is undeniable That all are schismaticks who upon that score do refuse communion with the Roman Church 17. You proceed against Mr. Thorndike He insinuates say you that we may lawfully pray for the Dead Your proof I told you that this is against Protestancy must be to shew where the English Church has repealed the Antient Canons commanding Prayer for the Dead That will be a hard task On the contrary You your selves object against the Common-Prayer-Book that there is a clause in it that not only insinuates it to be lawful but actually exercises prayer for the dead And you know that within the time of the four first General Counsels received in England above twelve hundred years ago your Progenitors were by the Universal Church declared Hereticks for denying it Yea moreover that there was never extant any Liturgy or Missal in the Church of Christ Eastern or Western wherein there were not prayers for the dead 18. You go on Mr. Thorndike against the Doctrine of the Church of England saies That we may expect some benefit by the prayers of souls departed I suppose holy soules are meant Where does the Church of England contradict this nay more except you will acknowledg your self to be a Socinian and deny that the souls of dead persons have any subsistence at all with perception and use of rational faculties you your self will not be so shameless as to deny what you here lay to Mr. Thorndikes charge For I know none that call themselves Christians except Socinians but acknowledg that the glorified Saints do pray at least in general for the Church Militant Now if they all do pray for us all will you not permit us to expect some benefit by their prayers Must we maintain that all their prayers are to no purpose O but you infer That this in time may easily be improved to our praying unto them As for this inference which is not your defendants but only your own give me leave to tell you That if you believe that the Saints pray for the Church in general it would be no hard matter by one Syllogisme to oblige you to acknowledge that we may pray to God that he would hear and grant their prayers making them beneficial to us And now search all the Solemn Offices and Missals of the Roman Church mark the prayers that occurrs every Saints Feast you will find no other formes but such as that The prayer is alwayes directed to God alone immediately and he is desired to grant us such and such blessings by the intercession of such Saints And if in less solemne Devotions as Litanies Antiphons c. we say Sancte Maria Sancte Michael Sancte Petre ora pro nobis we are by the Church obliged to no other meaning then as before and we imitate express Scripture Laudate Deum omnes Angeli ejus omnes Sancti ejus c. Cardinal Perron will assure you that our prayers to Saints is only prier pour prier a devout wishing that they would pray for us And truly for my part I do heartily wish all the Saints in heaven to intercede in their prayers with God that he would vouchsafe to give you and us all a sincere love both to truth and peace 19. I have reserved your most criminal charge till the last which you thus express If it be not the intent of some to returne into Aegypt I cannot imagine Preface what means the crying up of that great Diana of the Papists the Churches authority and making that the sole interpreter of Scripture What Religion can you possibly be of and talk thus You in your own person standing alone are not a Church If you be but one member of a Church what ever it be as long as you are so you are subject to it it must have Authority over you the Spirit of one Prophet must be subject to an assembly of Prophets are you an Independent much freedom is implyed in that Title yet I believe your Lay Church will think it has authority enough to oblige you not to interpret Scripture for the advantage of that court of Inquisition the Classes of the Presbytery Are you a Presbyterian Your private reason shall be yoaked and chained with bonds strong enough and heavy enough to keep it from stirring to the prejudice of the Holy brethren and Sisters But you will needs call your self an English Protestant and yet will dare to revile all the Authority in your Church boldly protesting that it shall not interpret Scripture for you Your private reason shall over-master it Unless it confesse it self to be no Church that is to have no Authority to oblige its members to receive the sence of scripture from her you will be revenged by bellowing aloud This is the crying up of the great Diana of the Papists Truly I must needs say the Church of England is a very patient Church if she suffer you to speak this Bedlam language and injoy a Benefice too 20. But you do well though you mean very ill when you call this the Diana of the Papists Since you imply that a true obliging Authority if any where can only be found in the Catholick Church As for Sects that have no Succession of Ordination for such to assume Authority and Jurisdiction in matters of Religion is ridiculous even to common sence for it implies that to be men which have an ordinary use of reason is a sufficient qualification to become Ecclesiastical Teachers and Governours The Clergy of England challenging a lawful Ordination have some pretension to a real Authority and if they could justify themselves free from the guilt of Schisme even we Roman Catholicks could not deny but their Authority would oblige in conscience and under the penaltie of damnation because then it would be an Authority participating that of the whole Catholick Church and acting in union with it But of this somewhat more in the last part of this Discourse 21. I do apprehend Mr. Bagshaw that if you make any reply to this you will instead of speaking to the purpose endeavour to aggravate the cause of Doctour Gunning and Mr. Thorndike by saying at adventure that there is a secret intelligence between the Papists and them and that they do
be pardon'd had you only said I fear or I suspect this But sure there is not any Christian except Mr. Bagshaw whose Religion would allow him to say I hope his Lordship thinks his Book unanswerable that is in effect I hope in God that his Lordship is both an Atheistical Hypocrite professing a Religion contrary to his conscience and withall that his Hypocrisie against the nature of that sin is sencelesly void of all worldly pretentions since he counterfeits a Religion that he knowes is ruinous to his fortunes Is this your Theological vertue of Hope Truly it becomes you well Your Faith Hope and Charity I see are all of a piece 6. It may be you knew some Great Men that for some ends you could permit to strain their consciences so far as to profess a Religion that themselves are able to confute But sure they will be no losers by it whatever becomes of ther souls care shall be taken that their worldly Estate shall thrive by it They will declare for a Sect where money abounds and where power and Offices may be shared That is of all Religions in England they will take heed of the Catholick 7. Indeed if you understood what Catholick Religion is you would never say so much as I suspect c. and if you knew what Christian Religion is you would never have said I hope such an abominable so unreasonable a thing In your Sect I conceive such an Hypocrisie may be practised at a cheaper rate But in Catholick Religion no Man can commit that sin alone it must necessarily be attended with most horrible sacriledge and a solemn profanation of two Sacraments Pennance and the Holy Eucharist Therefore I hope that you have been bold to bely your self when you said I hope his Lordship thinks his Book unanswerable I have a better opinion of you then you desire I should 8. As for the Author of Fiat Lux complained Fiat Lux Epist Deâ—â—â—â—â— of by you to your Honourable Patron in the Epistle Dedicatory where you lay to his charge Blasphemies that you good man tremble to mention If you had sincerely related those passages and were they considered not as standing alone but with the dependance on what is delivered before they will be so far from deserving to be called Blasphemies that no sober charitable Reader will deny them to be simple unstrain'd Truths And if you think good to reply to these papers I here undertake to justifie those passages in the proper true sence that the Author apparently meant them Which that it is no hard matter to do I will shew you presently His first passage related by you is this In my judgment saith he Christ our Lord hath no less shewn his Divinity and power in the Pope then in himself And all things considered I may truly say that Christ in the Pope and Church is more miraculous then in his own person My reason to demonstrate the truth of this which is the Authors too is this because the preservation of the Church in Unity and Truth under the Government of supream Pastours without interruption for sixteen hundred years and more amongst so many tryals and oppositions is a greater effect of a Divine power in Christ then he shew'd in prolonging his own personal life for about thirty three years 9. And as to the second passage viz. That the first great Fundamental of Christian Religion which is the truth and Divinity of Christ had it not been for the Pope had failed long ago in the World So that I may truly say that Christ is the Popes God For if the Pope had not been or had not been so vigilant a Pastor as he is Christ had not been taken now for any such person as he is believed this day Consult your books and the whole Series of Ecclesiastical Story will inform you that the Pope by means of Councels of the Western Church assembled by his Authority was he alone that instrumentally destroy'd Arianisme and other Heresies denying the Divinity of Christ which for some ages had in a manner poyson'd all the East 10. And lastly without much boasting I may with him conclude This I may boldly say and am assured of that if the Pope be not an unerring Guide in affairs of Religion that way I mean that I have shewn him in all ages to have exercised his Guidance by General Councils all is lost For this is no other then what with all Catholicks I have asserted and will positively justifie that the authority of the Church in her supream Tribunals is the only assured means of preserving the Church in Unity as being an Authority from which no Appeals must be admitted that is being Infallible These therefore you see are no such Blasphemies as to put you into a fit of trembling 11. I do now expect Sir unless God inspire more charity into your heart that you will make loud complaints of the presumption of your Roman Catholick adversary for daring to defend his Religion against your evident mistakes and the cause of all his profession from the trayterous imputation of a Dependence on a forreign authority most unjustly by you laid to their charge like the ancient Gladiatour you will accuse us for avoyding your blows and thrusts and because we do not recipere totum gladium But this Confidence is the effect of our Innocence only which as the Scripture says Gives the boldnesse of a lyon Nay it is for your sake if you please however it is for our Countreys sake that we beg no more innocent blood may be laid to its charge But if it must still be spilt we had rather you should be our Executioners than any other We give Almighty God and the Parliament most humble thanks that we have been permitted to wipe off the scandal of Infidelity from our Religion This we triumph in Hereafter if we suffer we call God to witness and the whole Kingdom I mean English Protestants that it will be purely our Conscience our Religion our love of Peace and Unity that we suffer for for all manner of security we have and ever will give of being faithfull quiet good Subjects all Oaths expressing only our obligation to Fidelity or acknowledgment of the Kings temporal Supreamacy we will take Does it not become then such Sufferers to be confident Does it not become such lovers of their Countrey to wish that no more guilt may lye upon it True it is we look upon your party as our Murderers you give us up into their hands you kill us with their swords They are inclin'd to mercy being satisfyed of our Innocency but you threaten to set the Kingdom on fire with your crying out Popery if they spare us We do not expect from his Majesty that for our sakes though his most loyal Subjects he should take upon himself the envy that you would raise against him We beseech him he would not indeed he ought not to do it considering the mischief that
Religious you will quarrel as derogating from God Let us therefore call it a sacred veneration or honour For since all things that are appointed on purpose to mind us of God of heaven and the salvation of our souls we call them sacred this name may well be applyed to such a picture But moreover because there are not invented such variety of names as there are things and there are far fewer sorts of outward postures of our Bodies denoting respect then there are Names or Words Hence it comes to pass that when we would express a Civil and a Sacred yea a Religious respect we are forced to use the same outward behaviour of bowing kneeling c. to Fathers and Magistrates that we do to God himself Yea we find in the Scripture Kings adored and a prostration of bodies paid to them Yet for all this no man will suspect that thereby any dishonour was intended to God or the Honour due only to him was paid to creatures 29. In the next place let reason and common sence give judgment of the distinction between the respect that may be paid to the picture of St. Peter and that which ought to be paid to himself in case he appeared to us glorified as he is A Divine respect we pay to neither though sometimes we use such postures as we do when we pray or worship God It is then a sacred veneration only but yet there are some expressions of respect that we would use to the person that would be ridiculous to the picture as reverently to speak to him to beg his prayers to God for us to ask a Question c. 30. Our last Enquiry shall be into the difference of regard if any there be to our Saviours picture and S. Peters the former representing to us him that is both God and man the latter meerly man However we shall find that the regard to both the pictures is of the same species and nature that is only sacred because a picture we never look upon but as an instrument to put us in mind or to call to our memories an object and therefore it being of our own frameing is not capable of any respect beyond that which is due to so material inferiour a thing what ever the object represented by it be True it is that the internal affections and thoughts occasionally raised in our minds will be infinitely different for we shall think upon Christ with Adoration Love Resignation and Obedience due to God only not so of St. Peter but the pictures themselves will be treated by us as sacred pictures only that deserve a respect proportionable And since it is evident they are capable of a sinful disrespect consequently a due respect may be paid to them I say may be not alwaies ought to be for then it would never be fit to put on ones hat c. in a room where there hangs a crucifix 31. To summe up briefly our meaning in this whole matter We find our minds too apt to be distracted from meditating on Divine things therefore we help our selves by such things as will call to our memories and fix our thoughts upon Objects good for our souls to be thought upon Such are holy pictures both in times of prayer and out we find this benefit by them Being such sacred things we must renounce our reason if we deny a respect may be due to them but by honouring with an outward regard a picture we intend only to give a testimony what respect we bear to the person or holy thing represented And though for want of variety of postures we shew some part of the same outward Reverence to the pictures of St. Peter and our Lord yet that signifies we only venerate St. Peter as a glorious Saint yet a creature but that we adore Christ as God And no man that sees or knows us can think otherwise So that unless it be a sin to shew outwardly what we are oblig'd to think inwardly there is not the least fault committed 32. And now Mr. Bagshaw give me leave to acquaint You with Your mistakes First this respect called by the Church Honour and Veneration which We affirme may be paid to sacred Images you call Worshipping of Images meerly to make us odious to your ignorant Proselytes For Worship is commonly taken to be that Honour which is due only to God and which we abhor to give to Images But Secondly you give it another name more abominable calling it Idolatry such as God punished in the worst of Pagans Once at least in your life speak your conscience Do you think or only suspect that we Roman Catholicks do worship false Gods and true Devils Do we consider our Images as they did their Idols to which by Magical conjurations they annexed an evil Spirit to do wonders and to extort Divine worship from the seduced people Take heed Sir how you persist in so unjust a blasphemy against Gods Church A time will come that You will be called to a strict account for it it concerns you therefore to make some reparation 33. But after all this take notice that the Catholick Church though it declare that such a veneration may fitly be given to Holy Images as common Reason and Humane nature cannot choose but allow Yet it commands none to afford them but even so much You may be a Roman Catholick all your life and yet never be obliged to performe any external respect to an Image There is not in Catholick countries a Groom or Kitchin-maid so ignorant but would rather burn an Image then afford it any honour due to God only And shall those that think thus and do only what humane reason generally approves and cannot hinder be esteemed and published by you the only Christians in the World fit to be thrust out of all Christian Kingdomes and executed as traytours though otherwise they be acknowledged most faithful peaceable men and obedient Subjects Are you not afraid of In quo judicio judicaveritis judicabimini 34. You see Sir how since you will not admit of Authorities to justify the Beliefe and Practice of Roman Catholicks but only common sence and reason I have complyed with you And now in one word tell you that You must never hope to make any sober man believe that Roman Catholicks are Idolaters or even faulty in the matter of Images till You can demonstrate 1. That it is unlawful to make use of our Seeing faculty to put us in mind of God 2. That he dishonours the King that shall with reverence bareheaded and in a kneeling posture receive a Letter or Mandate that comes from him 3. That it is a contempt of God to go through a Church with ones head uncovered 4. And that it is unlawful and irreligious to make a scruple of using a leaf of the Bible in the house of Office 35. For a farewel I will conclude this point with a Story the truth whereof several Gentlemen Protestants too in this Town are able