own sakes principally and for the Kings sake only inasmuch as they hoped for more Indulgence from a merciful Prince then from a Herd of men who could not be content to shave their Fathers beards but must cut their throats Yet Sir I am satisfied It s true that you as you say Owe great Allegiance to the King but I never could be satisfied that ye paid so much nor no more then utmost necessity compell'd from you and I am now in greater dissatisfaction by the story of the ten Miles and no more Pap. You may still Sir rest under the same dissatisfaction and must so do until you understand throughly the Distinction I before mentioned Phy. As for your distinction of the Church of Rome and Court of Rome Papist what ever was intended by the Inventer of the Knack I take it to be a 〈◊〉 Notion set up to stifle due Reflections on old Errors for most certainly an English Papist as Papist abstracted from doctrinal opinions is a Traytor to the King of England Pap. Hold Sir you intend not to quarrel me on the road sure and begin with such rude Language Phy. Pray why may not I call an English Papist Traytor as well as you call an English Protestant Heretick the crimes are both Capital Pap. If you understood any Distinction you would answer your self Phy. You crie Distinction Distinction Court of Rome Church of Rome but what is all that to the Church of England I suppose the Author of that so much magnified Distinction might mean thaâ— by nâ—â— being of the Court of Rome he may hold That the Pope haâ— not right to any temporal Jurisdiction in our Kings dominions but that our King is absolute Monarch there that 's something indeed and diversifies him from a de fide man and Jesuit who hold the contrary But yet he by being of the Church of Rome must hold that the Pope has right to some spiritual jurisdiction within our Kings Dominions which to affirm is to take away part of his Imperial Crown and as 't is against all truth so by the Laws of this Realm is Treason besides while he holds the Pope Head of the Church and so infallible he obeys him well who believes not what he says For while the Church of Rome Papist sayes our King is lawful King of England Scotland and Ireland he gives the Lye to his Infallible Holiness who has continued the old Interdiction of these Kingdoms the Excommunication of our Kings and has declared our King to have no right to his Kingdoms And therefore in anno 1662. as well from Cardinal Barberin as from the Popes Nuncio at Brussel a severe Reprimand was sent to the Irish Nobility who had subscribed a Remonstrance testifying their Allegiance to our present King the Pope declaring it as an Injury to the Faith and a denying of his Supremacy And in anno 1648. when the Papists to prevent banishment declared That the Pope cannot absolve them from their Obedience That he cannot depose any Heretical as 't is call'd Magistrates that he cannot dispense with Oaths made with such Hereticks This was at Rome condemned as Heretical the Parties summoned to appear at Rome and Censures and Prisons prepared for them and in the same Case is your Man of Distinction with the Irish Papists for subscribing their formulary to that purpose so that I see nothing from your distinction to arise but a Monster of Aequivocal generation an Hermophrodite in Religion part Romish part English Catholick whose seminal Vertues are to exert themselves as either powers prevail Pap. I verily believe that the Catholicks of the Church of Rome are good Christians and true Roman Catholicks though they are not of the Court of Rome and they indeavour to reform that Church and distinguish it from that Court Phy. You say well distinguish for it may be distinguished in Notion but can never be separated in Deed the Court and the Church of Rome being so interwoven and although some few Straglers thus distinguish yet in reality all our Contests concern the Court of Rome in that all the interest of that Church is dependent on that Court and they are incorporated together so that if we should ever joyn in Communion with that Church we must in a little time submit to the Usurpation of that Court. Jurisdiction of Church and State being in the same hands cannot be severed unless some Sir Salomon among you can divide Pope Cardinal Prelate as great Salomon would have done the Child which the two Mothers claimed And as to your irregular and feeble Indeavors to reform that Church Pray by what Authority do your true English-Roman Catholicks endeavour to reform the Roman Catholick Church For your Confessors tell you at the first Principle that ye must believe as the Church believes yet they themselves believe not so but would reform that Church in its Articles of Faith Pap. Sir they know well enough what they have to do and we believe them who have good Authority to instruct us in our belief Phy. You have said all that is permitted to silly misled Ignaro's to say But have a care and inquire after such Reformers who in single private Capacities unauthoritatively undertake Reformation of Churches At one time undertaking the Reformation of the Romish and British Churches Our Church was reformed by due Authority according to the most antient Laws of this Realm It having all the Rights of a Patriarchal See But can a few Renegado-dandi-prat Papists think to unhinge a Church or State under a pretence of Reformation These Reformers of yours I fear prompted our late Pretenders to Reformation who first would reform the Court then the established Church by Presbytery then Presbytery by Independent then Independency by Subdivisions of Atomical Sects till with Quaker and Millenaries Government was reformed quite out of doors such Reformers as is said are like the Hobling Erastian and run like Badgers with variating and unequal Motions and if they can keep where the ridge of secular Power goes highest their Reformation turns into Rebellion and Papist Reformers are as various and divers from their Church of Rome aye and from themselves Pap. You mistake us much for the Reformers I mean go not about to reform the whole Church or to unhing it but to reform in their private Practises and Judgments and teach us so Phy. They are good Members of that Church in the mean time that are wiser then their whole Church not only to differ from their Church in their private Practises and Judgments but to teach all others to do so too Right Roman Catholicks I 'le warrant them Pap. What pray do you think of Father Paul who wrote the Council of Trent so disadvantagiously to the Romish Interest and yet he died a steady Catholick of the Church of Rome Phy. I 'le tell you what I think of him I think first That he was no English man and so nothing to our purpose for I have nothing to
Confessor William the first Hen. 1. Hen. 3. Edw. 2. Edw. 3. Rich. 2. Hen. 4. Hen. 5. Hen. 6. Edw. 4. Rich. 3. H. 7. H. 8. and also that in their several and respective Raigns the Popes claim to Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction here in England was declared null even by those of the Romish Communion and that the King was acknowledged to be the Vicar of the highest King compleat Monarch Head of the whole body of the Realm to govern and rule the Kingdom and People of the Land and above all things the Holy Church and defend the same to give Authority to his Clergy to exercise Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction in this Realm according to Canons and Laws made for that purpose and that all Dignitaries of the Church derive their preferments from the King and no other exclusive of the Popes Authority in all Cases whatsoever Pap. How can you call that an absolute Certainty when there is at the same time a Possibility that the same may be false for there is a Possibility that all Historians may be mistaken and all Histories forged Phy. So is there as much Possibility that the Air may become an unproportionate Medium and disturb my Certainty of sight and so the Sense deluded so may I have a Delirium and my Intellectuals at some time disturbed in their Mathematical Activity and so confound all absolute Certainties But until there appear an absolute Certainty of such Interruptions of such means of absolute Certainties the three absolute Certainties remain such for it is not enough to suppose a Possibility to the contrary that makes them less certain but there must appear as high a Certainty to the contrary And while my Understanding is fully satisfied of such Certainties it is impossible to believe a Possibility to the contrary and in case of Historians reporting a matter of Fact diversly the greater and more valuable Testimony is to my understanding absolute the other not as if Mr. Cressey affirms in his Church-History that this Kingdom of England was for One thousand years absolutely subject to the Spiritual Jurisdiction of the Pope and all the Testimonies before mentioned which are Records kept and preserved inviolate and sacred in the Archives of the Kingdom with the care equal with the Evidences for the Crown and Concerns of the King and People say the contrary I take it this last Testimony is of absolute Certainty the other not Pap. But notwithstanding all these Records Popery was in all those Kings Raigns used in England Phy. It was so and Hen. 8. dyed one of your steady Roman-Church Catholicks but whatsoever powers the Pope had in any or all those Kings Raigns in England was meerly by the Concession of such Kings and not otherwise and at their will and pleasure only and which they might at any time resume at the like pleasure which other Kings have done since And I must tell you that although such Concessions have been yet they ought not to have been for the King cannot grant away any Inherent Flower of the Crown such as Jurisdiction is no more then he can grant away the Crown it self And whereas the timerous King John the very black Patch of the English Race laid down his Crown at the Infidel Embassadors feet and afterwards allowed it Tributary to your Italian Usurper It was more then he by the Law of this Realm could do and his Acts therein were wholly void but the King may appoint or alter a Discipline and Worship not contrary to Gods Holy Will and Appointment Pap. Well but what if the King should appoint a Liturgie and Form of Worship the same with that of the Catholick Countries Phy. If he should what then would that satisfie the true Catholicks of the Church of Rome and make them true English men Pap. I believe it might for while you have so good Authority against the Popes Jurisdiction here I cannot see at present what more they can have Phy. I vow I see such kind of arguings as these will soon bring these Controversies into a narrow Room and being pressed forward and home to an End Pap. Hold there for though I cannot at present answer your studied Arguments yet I may upon Deliberation however there are them who are able to do it whom I shall consult and then talk with you further Phy. There are them Very well who are them with a Mischief What blind leads the blind Credulity and Ignorance are the Pillars of your Church But come Sir let me give you some Advice The Service of God ought to be a reasonable Service that is Logical according to the word in the Original reasoning or your reason ought to be primarily concerned therein You are a person endued with rational Faculties and some stock of Improvements You are thereby distinguished from Brutâ— you are not to act in things of Religion out of Custom Precept or Example meerly but to be a wise Berean more noble than those of Thessalonica to search the Scriptures and try whether what is taught you be according thereto do not pin your Faith on other mens sleevs as the saying is admire not persons ignorantly nor things for persons sakes It was not a justifiable saying of him who had rather be in an Error with Plato then in the truth with any other There was one Farrel an active Presbyterian in Geneva after whom the People flocked In so much as one became so bold as to say he gave greater honour to Farrel then to Paul and another said of Calvin that were Paul and Calvin to preach together he would leave Paul to hear Calvin So that many men profess this or that Sect of Religion not so much for Religion sake as for the sake of the Sect Leaders Imitate St. Austin who having a long time followed St. Cyprian an Orthodox Father of the Church in the interpretation of a place of Scripture afterwards met with Ticonius an Heretick interpreting that place which he closed with conceiving it best Pap. Truly Sir I deny not but your Advice is wholesom and perhaps seasonable I shall think of it But Sir what if the Roman Catholicks should declare that they believed and owned the Kings Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction as well as Temporal in all his Dominions and disowned the Popes right to any Jurisdiction whatsoever here would not that be Security sufficient for the publick Peace and prevent severe Laws against us Phy. I think in such case our King might well say of such Papists as the Duke of Saxony said of the Lutherans viz. what they believe now I know but what they will believe next year I know not And you may deny the Popes Jurisdiction here as the Papists in France did the Popes power of Princes yet hold it so at Rome And you may own Allegiance and Supremacy to be in the King as Vauinus wrote for Providence yet denyed a deity But I do think that an Oath to that purpose well Pen'd and well taken would conduce somewhat to the
possible that the Pope will grant Orders to such as he now censures as these are so that an Admittance of these few stragling Pretenders to favour as it is against Religion to tolerate Persons in their present desperate State so it is certainly against all Christian Prudence and Policy of State to allow the unaccountable pretences to accept the faithless Ingagements or to credit the unintelligible Faith of those Papistical Nothings These things our Author points at in this Discourse all which if opposed or doubted of will be more at large maintained and the matters of Fact therein cleared by another manner of Testimony then that of bringing the Virgin Mary's Chappel from Nazareth to Dalmatia and from thence to Loretto nay let any one of the five hundred Native Priests that Peter Walsh saies lately were in England undertake any one Link of this Chain which conduces to the End of the Controversy and the whole Cause shall depend on the success So that this Book serves to state the Controversy aright and in some measure to confirm the reformed Catholicks to convince the Heteroclite Adversaries and to justify our Kings necessary Cautions against the Invaders of his loyal and establish'd Authority A JOURNEY INTO THE COUNTRY c. PAPIST Well overtaken Sir how far travail you this way Physitian Truly Sir I cannot well tell I know the place I am going to but know not how far 't is thither Pap. Perhaps then two such Travailers have seldom met for I know how far I am to travail but know not the place I go to Phy. Methinks Sir you undertake an odd Journey Pray what occasions it and the uncertainty thereof Pap. Sir have you not heard of Ogilbies Wheel that has run over all the great Roads in England Phy. Yes that was to ascertain the Miles for Travailers and is to be inserted into his Britannia being one part of his Atlas now coming forth a very laborious and useful Work Pap. Whether the design was to advantage Travailers or the Post-Office I 'le not determine but sure I am it 's become prejudicial to me for here is the Case I am obliged to go ten miles from London and so thought to have gone to Rumford But it seems by that Wheel Rumford is made 12 miles off from London and then if I stay 2 miles short what know I where I shall lodge Phy. I believe Sir your head is full of Proclamations and that troubles you more then the Wheel Pap. I can bear the Proclamation patiently and be obedient to the Kings Command as well as any Subject he has Phy. Say you so were I in your Case I should chuse to go to Rumford and not take up at Cold lodging for while you are commanded to go ten Miles from London you may go as far as you please beyond it Pap. If I had not been commanded to go ten miles I would not have gone it and being commanded to go so far I am not such a fool as to go further for something that I know Phy. What think you then of what is said If any one compels you to go with him a Mile go with him twain Pap. Would you think it reasonable if one going five Miles for a Physitian that another should compel him to go ten Miles another way Phy. No but it 's meant if any by the power of the Magistrate compels you to go a Mile shew your Obedience to the Magistrates Command in doing more rather then less or not at all for so the word in the Original for Compel signifies and you may see a Sermon on that Text. 13. Rom. Pap. Well Sir make what Interpretation of it you please I know who can do it better and I have a surer Guid to trust to that cannot Err. Phy. I think I understand you Sir and what perswasion you are of Pap. Pray then Sir let me understand who you are and what occasions your Journey Phy. Why I am a Protestant Physitian going to visit a patient some Miles onward to Rumford Pap. Methinks then Sir you should make more haste strange how lazy and indifferent are Physitians grown in the great Concernment of mens Lives And all this Evil is occasioned by the Reformation as it 's called which might better have been in Physick then Religion Phy. As for the Reformation in Religion I see not how it affects the Practice of Physick but for my not making more haste to my Patient you must know First That too violent Motions may irritate the pungent and saline particles hid in the Nervous Juice and cause a Fermentation in the Serum of the blood which preying on the vital Spirits will conclude in a malignant and putrid feaver But by a Sedate Managery of the parts the morbifick matter remains undisturbed until it may be exterminated by proper Evacuations viz. Emeticks Diureticks Sudorificks or ordinary Purgations Secondly The Distemper my Patient labours under appears by the Symptomes indicated by the Vein to be a Chronick Distemper and become Cathectical and so not to be accosted by Acute Medicines and cured of a suddain Thirdly and lastly a Physitian who makes too much haste after a Patients Summons gives thereby the Patient occasion to think that the Physitian has but few to look after but small Practice so will have but mean thoughts of him and hinder the operation of the Physick whereas confidence in the Physitian does half the Cure and which is worst of all a small Fee will be thought sufficient for him And I see no reason why I should not put a value on my Medicine as well as you on your Mass But Sir I pray why are you so penurious of your Obedience to the Kings Commands that you will go but just ten miles though to your Detriment Pap. Why Sir I 'le tell you the King shall see that I will obey him exactly though to my own prejudice and my opinion is that whosoever of the Roman Catholick Religion that live under the Kings protection should prefer the peace of the State before his own Advantages and so I have learnt from wise men of this Nation Phy. Well Sir omitting that this Minute Testimony of your Obedience conduces nothing to the peace of the State in as much as the going above ten Miles is no breach of the Kings Command tell me I pray why you did not mention the peace of the Church as well as of the State which you prefer to your own Advantages Pap. I must declare to you I am a Catholick of the Church of Rome and not of the Court of Rome mind that for this distinction has much in it and I ow as much Allegiance to the King as any Protestant of you all and am ready to take up Arms to defend his Royal person as many Catholicks did in the late Wars Phy. I am satisfied that many Catholicks were in the late Kings Army and did Service there but I always was satisfied also that it was for their