Charactere because of the most solide Reply and most manifest testimonies of the Scripture as one of your owne hath said t â—â—â—videar humanis argumentis id agere etc. ex â—vangelio profero certa documâ—â—â—â—a Aug. l. 1. de Bapt. â—ont Donat. c. â— Least I should seeme to deale in this onely by humane arguments saith S. Augustine I will bring most sure arguments out of the Gospell And in the wordes following he bringeth in this Text. u Luc. 9. 50. Forbid him not for he that is not against us is with us By which hee overthroweth the maine argument of the adverse parties who helde That the things of Christ could not bee had out of the Church And in his answer to this question whether it were better to baptise or not to baptise such he hath these words x Recurrens ad illam stateram dominicam ubi non ex humano sensu sed authoritate divinà return momenta pensantur invenio de â—â—raque te Domini sententiam Aug. l. 2. de bapt cont Donat c. 14. Looking to the divine measure that is the Scripture whereby things are measured by divine authoritie and not by humane opinion I finde the judgment of the Lord concerning both And he concludeth this question with these words y Perspectis Scripturarum testimonijs potest etiam dici quod veritas declaravit hoc sequimur Aug. l. 4. de bapt cont Donat. c 7. Having searched the testimonies of the Scriptures I may say we follow that which the truth declareth Thus it appeareth by the judgment of S. Augustine that the point of doctrine is written although for point of practise we reade nothing in the writings of the Apostles 7. That the holy Ghost is to be adored and that the Father is unbegotten and unborne I beleive those as the Articles of my faith but I will never beleive him that saith * Aug. cont Maximinum l. 3. c. 3. S. Augustine held them to be unwritten articles These words The holy Ghost is to be adored The Father is unbegotten I confesse are not written verbatim yet there are other words written which doe import the same and are equivalent unto them And may we not understand some words which we reade not out of those words which we reade saith S. Augustine a In verbis Scripturarum non est Evangeliuâ— sed in sensu Hicroâ—â—m in Galat. c. 1. The words are not the Gospell but the sense of Scripture is the Gospell saith S. Hierome So I Reply pag. 119 may say the forme of words is not the article of faith but the thing signified by those words else the Church believed not these two articles untill this forme of words was z Quasi non ex ijs quae legimus aliqua etiam quae non legimus intelligamus Aug. ibidem used The holy Ghost is to be adored The Father is unborne As for the article of faith signified by these words The holy Ghost is to be adored S. Augustine prooveth it out of the Scriptures in which it is written in an other forme of words b Glorificate ergo Deum in corpore vestro ubi delucidè ostend it Deum esse spiritum sanctum glorificandum scilicet in corpore nostro Aug. cont Maxim l. 3. c. â—1 Glorifie therefore God in your body this evidently declareth that the holy Ghost is God and that he must be glorified in our bodies saith S. Augustine And againe c Glorifieate Deum portate in corpore vestro Quem Deum nisi Spiritum sanctum cujus corpora nostra dixerit esse templum Aug. epist 66. Glorifie God in your body whom doth he meane but the holy Ghost whose temple he calleth our bodies And concerning the words Coessentiall Vnbegotten and the like hee saith d Etiasi vocabula ista ibi non inveniuntur fieri potest ut illud inveniamus cui haec vocabula rectè adhibita indicentur Aug. epist 174. Although those words are not found in Scripture yet we may finde that which is intended by those words This then was the opinion of S. Augustine that the doctrine signified by those words was written in other words although those words themselves were not written And as S. Augustine answereth Pascentius the Arian so I may answere the Iesuite e Quid contentiosius est quaÌ„ ubi de re constat certare de nomine Aug. ibidem What is more contentious then to strive about words when the thing meant by them is manifest 8. It is not An other point of faith which S. Augustine handleth in the next testimony but the point of rebaptization * Aug. de unit Eccles c. 19. This neither of us both can finde written expressely and evidently in the Scripture And this is not spoken concerning the doctrine but concerning the practise in this point as appeareth by S. Augustines answer to the Heretickes demaund f Cum in scripturis non inveniamus aliquos ad Ecclesiam iam transisle ab Hereticâ— sicut ego dico aut sicuâ— tu dicis esse succeptos Aug. ibidem Seeing now we finde not any in the Scriptures to haue for saken the Heretickes and come home to the Church and to have beene received either as I say or as you say This point of fact may well be distinguished from the point of faith the doctrine may be written though Reply the practise is not written Howsoever we graunt it that the practise is not written neither is the doctrine written expressely and evidently That the baptised by Heretickes shall not be rebaptised Yet S. Augustine from most certain principles and by most evident consequences out of the holy Scripture concludeth the doctrine of this point The praâ—tise of the Church herein being according unto the truth of Scripture S. Augustinâ— might very well oppose the practise of the Church against the Heretick tel him * Aug. â—bidem Thou must beleeve the Câ—urch which if thou refuse to doe thou doest not oppose thy selfâ— against me or against man but Reply even against our Saviour himselfe to thy everlasting damnation The baptisme of Children of which S. Augustine writeth in the next testimony is no unwritten doctrine but a point established likewise both by the authority of the Scriptures and of the Church and S. Augustine did well to declare the authority of the Scriptures and of the Church in this point saying * Aug. serm 14. de verb. Apost Such force hath the authority Reply of the Church and the fixed rule of truth that is the Scripture against this bulwarke against this impregnable wall who so advanceth himselfe he shall be broken and burst in peeces As this is most truely affirmed by S. Augustine so it is as impertinently alledged by the Iesuite Reply Is it not recorded in the Acts of the Apostles that * Act. 1. 3 Christ after his passion shewed himselfe alive to his Apostles being seene
on both sides and yet these and many such things were defended by some of the Fathers 2. We confesse that the Fathers are Patrons of Traditions of such Traditions as we allowed in the * Sect. 1. Diâ—is 4. stateing of the Question and not of Popish Traditions for all our Writers have disputed by the testimonies of the Fathers against unwritten doctrinall Traditions learned Whitaker shall answere for himselfe and for all the rest c Conâ—edimus defensas esse Traditiones à Patribâ—â— sed â—â— modo â—uod dictumest at quod aiâ— Patres non oppugnare illud falâ—um est Whâ—â—akeâ— controvers 1. de verbo Del non scâ—â—pto q. 6. c. 1â— Wee confesse that the Fathers defended Traditions but they were such Traditions as we defend But whereas you say that the Fathers did not oppugne Traditions it is false What now may we thinke of the Iesuite who falsely chargeth both the Fathers and our Writers He verifieth the saying The Monke of all men and the Iesuite above all Monkes is most impudent This babling prater or prating babler may bragge that He hath the consistorie of Antiquitie and that we are The babling upstarts Wee cannot tame his tongue from rayling for as he observeth out of S. Hilary * Hilar. de Triâ—iâ— l 3. Desperation bringeth alwayes with it selfe an unbridled boldnesse and professed impietie leâ—peth beyond the bounds of all shame This is true of him although S. Hilary hath no such words in that booke He deserveth the whetstone for his impudent lying and the cucking-stoole for his shamelesse scoulding And for his excusing of the most reverend Primate to those of his owne side and to the outlandish Doctours hee hath more need to excuse himselfe 1. To those of his owne side who stand for the perfection sufficiencie and prerogative of the sacred Scripture d Scriptura sufficleuter continet doctrinam necessariaâ—â— viatori-Scotus in prolog in 1. sentent â— â— The Scripture saith Scotus sufficiently containeth the doctrine necessary for him that is in his trauell e Sacra Scripturâ— est regula fidei cui nec addere nec subtrahere licet Aquin 〈…〉 ar 9. The holy Scripture saith Aquinas is the rule of faith to which we must not adde and from which we must not substract f Loquitur Deus in Scripturis it a copiose quod non oportet Deum iterum loqui nobis aliquod necessarium 〈◊〉 habeantur Aâ—ton part â— 3. tiâ— 1â— c. 3. God speaketh in the Scripture saith Antoninus and speaketh so copiously that he need not speake againe unto us any thing that is necessary seeing all such things are in the Scriptures Thus God hath made the g Ioh. 1. 5. light tâ— shine in darkenes And how can the Iesuite reconcile himselfe unto these men who denyeth that which they affirme 2. To all the outlandish Doctors who preferreth himselfe all his Countreymen before all other writers of what Countrey soever That they are partakers of that benigne and blessed influence which it pleaseth the heavens to distill into the Irish disposition This is good Divinity The heavens distill this influence of grace The outlandish Doctors are beholding unto him for his good opinion of them in that Ireland or the Irish disposition is made partaker of this influence before all other Countreyes and Countreymen whatsoever This is to make all other places and persons like h â— Sam. 1 21. The mountaines of Gilboa upon which there falleth neither dew nor raine And only Ireland to be like the Reply pag. 112. 1â—3 hill of i Psal 133. â— Hermon the dew whereof watereth other hills And how shall we excuse him in these things 1 Be pleased to remember that he left his native soyle and wenâ— over seas to write this booke by means whereof he leâ—t his wits behinde him and deprived himselfe of this blessed influence if he had remained at home he might perhaps have received some of this benigne influence which it pleaseth the heavens to distill upon his native Climate 2. That those of his owne side speake of the susticiency of Scripture in things necessary in doctrines of salvation but he denyeth the sufficiency of Scripture in rituall points which are the Traditions which he defendeth this will appeare in the examining of his next Section which is SECT IIII. Of the nature and quality of unwritten Traditions 1. THe subject of this and of the former Section is the same and therefore I wil answere the Iesuite as S. Augustine did Iulian upon the like occasion a Replicas quae superiore disputatione consumpta â—unt August cont Iulian. l. 4. c. 18 Thou replyest those things which are already coÌ„futed We * Sect. 2. D. 1. have answered the argument drawne froÌ„ the infallibility authority of the Church yet here againe the Iesuite reneweth it The Catholick Church cannot erre and therefore whatsoever she delivereth Reply p. 1â—4 as a point of faith or an interpretation of any obscure passage of Scripture we must beleeve it as fire as that S. Iohns Gospell is Scripture Sir you reckon without your Hoaste for the Catholicke Church never taught unwritten Traditions And according to your own sayings and tenents unwritten Traditions were of no authority for the first 300. yeares for if it be the Catholicke Church that must give authority to an unwritten Tradition and if the iudgement of the Catholicke Church could not then be heard but in a generall Councell and if there were no generall Councell untill about 300. yeares after Christ what nature or quality what credit or authority had unwritten Traditions untill that time Traditions likewise which are particular not observed by the Catholicke Church but onely in some Churches which by your doctrine are parcels of the unwritten wordâ— must needs want their authoritie because they are not delivered by the judgement of the Catholicke Church Neither is any Church on earth so infallible as that it cannot erre in delivery of a Tradition or exposition of an obscure passage of Scripture The Church which hee meaneth hath erred in many foolish and ridiculous expositions What shall we thinke of that exposition which is so famous among the Franciscans upon this text Revel 7. 2. From the East that is b Ab ortu solis id est decivitaâ—ate Assissij in Oriente posita asceâ—dit Angelus id est Franciscus puritate sanctitate Angelis consiâ—oilis cum signo Dei vivi id est cum stigmatibus Iesu Christi conformit Francis l. 1. from the city Assissium which is in the East the Angell ascended that is Francis like unto the Angels in purity and sanctitie with the Seale of the living God that is with the wounds of Iesus Christ Is this exposition as true as S. Iohns Gospell Besides the testimonie of the Church I have diverse arguments to perswade me that S. Iohns Gospell is canonicall the testimony of the Church is but one argument and such an one
as may sometime deceive a man and therefore though the exposition be true yet how can I be as sure that it is true as I am that S. Iohns Gospell is canonicall I like better of that saying of Marsilius c Dict a Christi five Dei non vera sunt causaliter â—o quod â—iâ—dem testificatur Ecclesia Catholica vero testimonio sed testimonium Ecclesiae causaliter verum est dum dicit dicta christi vera propteâ— veâ—tatem dictorum christi Marsil Desensor pacis part 2. cap. 19. The words of Christ or of God are not therefore made true because the Catholicks Church by a true testimony giveth her testimony unto them but the testimony of the Church is therefore true when shee speaketh the true words of Christ because of the truth of Christs words And as S. Augustine said * August cont epist fundament c. 5. That hee beleevea the Gospell Reply pag. 114. by the authority of the Church so are we to beleeve the Traditions which the Church propoundeth unto us as the word of God 2. I wish our Adversary to consider two things which make the meaning of S. Augustine most evident 1. That S. Augustine speaketh of the primitive Church d Augustinus ibidem Ecclesiam sumit proâ— primitivâ— congregatione fidelium qui Christum viderunt audieruÌ„t sui testes sueruÌ„t Gerson de vitâ spirit lect 2 dâ— S. Augustine saith Gerson in that place taketh the Church for the primitive congregation of the faithfull who did see heare and were witnâ—sses of Christ What is this to the now Roman Church Have you the same power and authority which that Church had Your own Driedo telleth you no. e Ecclesia primitiva propter collegium Apostolorum majoris erat gratiae majorisque authoritatis quam Ecclesia quaenunc est Driedo de dogma l. â— c. 4. The primitive church by reason of the colledge of the apostles was of greater grace and of greater authority then the Church which now is If the Iesuite speake of the Traditions delivered by that Church we refuse them not let him prove this or that to be a Tradition delivered by the Apostles and we will beleeve it but if he speake of the now Roman Church his argument is of no force and as S. Augustine beleeved not the Gospell by the authority of that Church so wee will not beleeve the Traditions taught by her 2. That this was the occasion why he alledged the authority of the Church S. Augustine had beene for nine yeares a Manichee and now having to deale with the Manichees to convert them hee propoundeth unto them the authoritie of the Church to move them even as in the time of his heresie it moved him This he speaketh of the time past I had not beleeved the Gospell if the authority of the Church had not moved me But afterward being converted and made a Bishop he maketh a better confession saying f I am credere coeperam nullo modo te fuisse tributurum tam excellen tem illi scripturae per omnes jam terras authoritatem nisi per ipsam tibi credi per ipsam te quaeri voluâ—sses Aug. confess l. â— c. 5. Now I began to beleeve that thou wouldest not have given so excellent authoritie unto the Scripture it selfe â—ver the whole world but that by it thou wouldest be beleeved and by it thou wouldest be sought This is all that can be gathered out of S. Augustine that the Church is a good motive to perswade men to beleeve the word of God and not that it is such a Doctor that can give such lawes as shal be equall with the word of God S. Augustine confesseth that he had an other motive to perswade him to beleeve besides the authoritie of the Church g Se Carthagine motum esse disputatione cujusdam Elpidij cui Manichâ—i imbeâ—illa responsione restiterint August confess l. 5. c 11. Being at Carthage he was moved to beleeve by the disputation of one Elpidius whose arguments the Manichees were not able to answere But every mover is not a Law-giver h 1. Pet. 3. 1. The honest conversation of the wife may move the husband to beleeve must he therefore beleeve whatsoever she shall say I may aswell inferre thus the testimonie of the Iewes moveth us to beleeve the old Testament therefore we must beleeve their Cabbala their Masoreth and all their unwritten Traditions We are willing to i Math. 22. 21. give unto Cesar the things which are Cesars and unto God the things which are Gods and therefore wee give unto the Church the ministery to allure us and to move us to beleeve the word of God and to the Scripture the dignity and authority to be the onely word of God If the Church were bound not onely to preserve the sacred Reply pag 124 writings but also to deliver the forme of wholesome doctrine contained in them why should she not be likewise bound to preserve the sacred Traditions and to deliver the forme of wholesome doctrine in them contained And why should not we receive them upon her credit 3. If unwritten Traditions had beene committed to her trust there is no doubt but that she ought to preserve them and to deliver them as shee received them to keepe nothing backe but to deliver the whole counsell of God and to teach the forme of wholesome doctrine whether written or unwritten but unwritten Traditions are no wholesome doctrine they are part of that poysonous potion that bewitching doctrine which is in the golden cup of that glorious Religion for outward shew of the Scarlet coloured beast of Rome And though it were true that the Church received unwritten Traditions and that she is bound to teach them yet how can I be assured that this or that is a true Tradition as sure as I am of any written article of my faith That Christ dyed I beleive because the Scripture saith it that this is a Tradition you beleive it because a Father the Fathers or the Church saith it Can a man beleive that testimony which may be false as sure as he beleiveth that cui non potest subesse falsum No humane testimony can beget that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or full assurance which a divine Testimony doth k 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Clemons Alex. Strom. 1. 7. Wee regard not an humane testimonie let us confirme the question by the Word of GOD which is the surest demonstration yea the onely demonstration saith Clemens of Alexandria It is l 2. Pet. 1. 19. more sure then the testimonie of men and of Angels Epiphanius layeth downe these for the limites and bounds Reply pag. 125 of our faith * Epiph hâ—res 55. Apostolicall Traditions and the holy Scriptures and the succession of doctrine by which Gods truth is fortified on every side that no man should be deceived with fabulous novelties 4. None of the Ancient were more deceived with
4. c. 8. He speaketh of the Scripture And S. Augustin approveth of his admonition h Aug. de bapt cont Donat. l. 5. c. 26. That which Cyprian admonisheth us That we should have recourse to the fountaine to wit to the Apostolicall Tradition that is best and ought to be done So that in S. Augustines judgment this point may be determined by the Scriptures He accounted the testimonie of the Church one good meanes but the testimony of the Scripture the best meanes to judge it by The 10th is this * Aug. in Psal 57. The truth surely harboureth in the belly Reply p. 148. of the Church The truth is while Christ is the head and husband of the Church truth must needs harbour in the belly of that Church but if Antichrist become the head husband of a Church truth cannot harbour in the belly of that Church The man of sinne the Sonne of perdition doth set as God in the Roman Church which was once â— The â— Thes 1. 4. temple of God He equalizeth all his Decrees and his Cathedrall voyce with the voyce of God sounding in the Scriptures She was along while like a woman sicke of a timpany or some swelling disease and at length brought forth a monster k Nec Deus es nec homo quasi nevter es inter utruâ—que Clemen proem in Glos Neither God nor man but a nevter betweene both And this monster is the Father of this monstrous doctrine of unwritten Traditions The 11th followeth * Aug. epist 56 The whole height of authority and light of reason for the reparation of mankinde consisteth Reply only in the saving name of Christ in his one onely Church As we give unto God the things which are Gods so to the Church the power belonging to her that is the supreame power and absolute authority unto Godâ— and under God a subordinate power and ministeriall authoritâ—â— unto the Church And this is all which S. Augustinâ— meaneth He addeth the 12th * Aug cont Fausâ— Manich l. 11. c. 2. Thou seest of how great forcâ— in Reply p. 149. thâ—â— matter the authoritie of the Catholicke Church is which by the orderly succession of Bishops from the most assured soaâ—â— of the Apostles unto these our dayes and by the consent of so many nations and people is confirmed As in all things wee give due respect unto the authoritie of the Catholicke Church so likewise we doe in this point of which S. Augustine speaketh which is of the truth of holy Scripture that it is the word of God We confesse the authority of the Catholicke Church is of great fâ—rce to confirme our faith in beleeving which is the Scripture and what is the true meaning of it yet her authority extendeth not it selfe so farre as to adde unwritten Traditions to the Scripture or to give any other interpretation of the Scriptures then is contained in them Her authority is one meanes but noâ— the onely meanes to confirme this point for in the same place S. Augustine sheweth that there are other meanes likewise as Searching into other copies of the Scripture and comparing the copies with the originall And yet this is nothing to the Roman Church it is not the Catholicke Church in it there is no orderly successioâ— if there be it is not from the most assured seats of the Apostles but from a doubtfull seat of an Apostle in it the consent of nations and people is not to be heard but onely the voyce of the Pope is to be regarded And to make up his Bakers douzen hee concludeth with this * Aug. cont Iul Pelag. l. 2. cap. 1. It is necessary that all Christian people preferre the judgment Reply pag. 149 and testimonies of holy Fathers before your Novelties and choose rather to adheare unto them then unto you I should but slander you with an action of truth if I should say Popery is a Novelty Vnwritten Traditions are novelties We have ever preferred the testimonies and judgements of holy Fathers before such Novelties and if wee will adheare unto them we cannot adheare unto unwritten Traditions You preferre Novelties before the judgements and testimonies of the holy Fathers The Popes Cathedrall voyce is preferred before the judgements and testimonies of all Councels and holy Fathers and this is a Noveltie never heard of untill it was hatcht of late noâ— much aboue an 100. yeares since in the Lateran Councell l Melch Canus Ioc theolog l. â— c. 5. In generall Councels saith a flatterer of the Pope matters are not to be judged by the number of suffrages but by the weight Pondus autem dat summi Pontific is authoritas but the authority of the Pope maketh up the weight So that among the Fathers and in Councells hee hath not onely a negative voyce to stop that which they conclude but even a divine voyce farre transcendent aboue them all As Pharaohs leane kine eat up the fat so hath he eaten up the authoritie of Church and Fathers And as Iacke Cadâ— would have all written law banished that the law might proceede out of his mouth even so dealeth the Pope Thus we have sifted your â—eapâ— and finde it but chaffe and cast up your number and finde it nothing but cyphers The testimonies are weapons whereby Heretickes and Schismaticks such as deny the true doctrine of the Church may be wounded and put to flight but unto us who defend S. Augustines doctrine they are defensive and not offensive And if dropping of testimonies out of S. Augustine might beare away the bell I dare hazard the game upon it to drop three for one but I dare not take that liberty unto my selfe as the Iesuite doth to be both Respondent and Opponent least I should be censured for gresling from the right rule of answering wherefore I tie my selfe to answer those testimonies which follow * Chrysol ser â—5 S. Peter Chrysologus A Christian minde knoweth not Reply p. 149. how to dispute against such things as are strengthned by the Tradition of the Fathers 21. The same Christian minde is in us for we dispute not against such things Chrysologus his sermon was upon that text of S. Iohn * Ioh. â— 1. There was a Feast of the Iewes This gave him occasion to discourse of holy dayes and specially of such fistivall dayes as were strengthned by the tradition of the Fathers and long continuance These we account as ordinances of the Church and give that respect unto them as is due but we dare not give them that authoritie which belongeth to the word of God as to be points of Reply p. 149. faith or necessary doctrines S. Leo affirmeth * Leo serm â— Thâ—t true learning doth acknowledge and piety doth embrace that which Tradition hath long since dâ—creed and custome hath established * Leo de Iejun Pentecost Neither is it to bee doubted but whatsoever is observed by the
is not this ad rem Is not this to speake to the purpose He may sooner cough up his heart then prove the contrary And though some things were delivered by the Apostles without writing yet their authority may be lesse then the authority of the things they committed to writing not because writing giveth authority but because the authority may arise from the matter delivered and from the intention of the deliverer 1. From the matter delivered unwritten rituall Traditions may be of the same authority with written rituall Traditions which are mutable and changeable but no man of understanding will say that they are of the same authority with written doctrinall Traditions which are immutable and unchangeable 2. From the intention of the deliverer Those things which the Apostles intended should be universall and perpetuall were written by them but those things which they intended should be transient and particular for the most part they were delivered by word of mouth so that their intention was to deliver such things as befitting those timâ—s and places and not by them to make an addition to the written word as it were defective nor to make them of equall authority with the written word In leagues between Prince Prince in covenants between man and man the Articles are committed unto writing God hath entred into a covenant with man and hath made choise to deliver it by writing and therefore we give supreme authority to the written word above all things unwritten whatsoever Yet those things which by sound inference are deduced from the Scriptures have the same authority with the Scriptures But first you have no meanes to know which is a sound inference Reply pag. 116 6. Sir I tell you that you are a lyar and I will prove it by a sound inference It was of olde accounted an argument sound both in matter and forme d Thom. Walâ—ing Histor Richâ—â— 2â— If a Fryar then a lyar This Argument is as sound If a Iesuite then a lyar The inference is sound because e Psal 116. 11. All men are lyars This is a surer inference then the Popes supremacie or the corporall presence the first depending upon many false suppositions and the second upon many doubtful intentions Such I confesse is the depth of Scripture that the wit of man is not able to sounde it and to find out all the sound inferences that may be deduced from it Such is the depth of Scripture saith S. Augustine f Tanta est Christianarum literarum profunditas ut iâ— eis quotid se proficerem sieas solas ab in cunte aetaâ—e usque ad decrepitam senectuâ—em coâ—areâ— addiscere August Ep. 3â— that still I may learne more out of it although I should studio nothing but it all the dayes of my life But to say that we have no meanes to know which is a sound inference out of it is to deny that we have Wit or any spirituall understanding This is a most witlesse cavill and it seemeth that the Iesuite hath no more braines then a bird-boult 2. We have the expresse warrant of the Scripture approving Reply unwritten Traditions And so the Scripture condemneth unwritten Traditions and I beleive when we come to examine your Traditions we shall find them more like those which are condemned then those which are commended by the Scripture 3. We are able to prove all such Traditions as the Catholick Reply Church holdeth for Apostolicall to bee doctrines deduced by sound inference from the Scripture And so are we but what is that to Popish Traditions which were never held by the Catholick Church are not Apostolicall and are no doctrines deduced by sound inference from the Scripture Wee have long desired to see the catalogue of unwritten Traditions we presse you and defye you to set it out This puny Iesuite knoweth not what is an unwritten Tradition What a babling wittall is this He undertaketh to prove All unwritten Traditions to be doctrines deduced by sound inference from the Scripture If he doe not prove this he is a lyar in grain If he doe prove this then he over-throweth unwritten Traditions for doctrines deduced by sound inference from Scripture are not unwritten Traditions but even all one with the Scripture it selfe I marvaile not at the dunsary of this Ignoramus in calling doctrines deduced by sound inference from Scripture unwritten Traditions seeing in * pag. 145. an other place hee calleth the Scripture it selfe an unwritten Tradition Sr. Ignaro learne to speake English before you write againe in divinity But let us here his sound inference Because the Scripture commandeth us to obey the Church A sound inference to defend Iewish Traditions aswell as Popish because the Church among them was to be obeyed Such an inference may passe for current among your Proselytes who must beleive whatsoever you prate or prattle This is a sound of an inference but no sound inference 1. Because the Romish Priests and Prelates who require this audience and obedience are not a true Church but upstart Imposters Tradition-mongers such the Scripture commandeth us not to obey 2. Though they were a true Church yet they are not the Catholicke Church of which Mr Dullman speaketh 3. Because the Traditions which you defend crosse both the veritie and perfection of the sacred Scripture And therefore they are no doctrines deduced by sound inference from the Scripture for which cause wee set our selves against them Then you set your selfe against no body Reply but combat with your owne shadow frameing a phantasticall Adversary for such Traditions as we defend are farre from crossing the veritie or perfection of the Scripture 7. The first article of Ignatius Loiola his lame confession is this g Credo Scripturam esse doctrinam imperfectam mutilam et mancam Hospin de orig Iesuit I beleeve that the Scripture is an imperfect lame and maimed doctrine not all that a Christian is bound to beleeve but onely h Maxima pars coâ—tinetur in Scripturis Andrad orthodox Explicat a â— The greatest part is contained in the Scriptures saith Andradius i Multo pars maxima Euangelij pervenit ad nos traditioneâ— perexigua est literis mandata Hosius confess Petrocovâ—â— 9 de Traditionibus The farre greater part of the Gospell we have by Tradition very little is committed unto writing thus writeth Hosius the Cardinall How oft hath this Sir Oblivious denyed the perfectiâ— of Scripture even in points of greatest moment g pag. 126. That it cannot be proved by Scripture that the Father is unbegotten and that the Son is consubstantiall with the Father that * pag. 118. The holy Ghost is to bee worshipped He likewise affirmeth * pag. 132. That all the Councel of God which the Minister is to deliver is not written And * pag. 165. That the Scripture hath sufficiencie to declare some but not all the Articles of faith And if this defect must
for l. 3. c. 4. place I subscribe to what Irenaeus saith And I beleeve that by Apostolicall Tradition that is the preaching of the word many nations were converted to the faith of Christ not by unwritten doctrines but by delivering written doctrines in an unwritten manner Irenaeus sheweth k Iren. l. 3. c. 1. First that the Apostles preached the Gospell and that afterward they delivered the same unto us in writing The same things the Pastours of the Church who might have the written word although the persons taught had it not delivered unto the People Irenaeus sheweth what those things were which were l Iren. l. 3. c. 4. written in their hearts without inke or letters They did beleive m In unum Deum sabricatorem coeli terrae omnium quae in eis sunt per Christâ—â—â— Iesum Dei filium c. Iren. ibid. In one God maker of heaven and of earth and of all things in them by Iesus Christ the Sonne of God c. These were the Traditions which they beleived and if any would have taught them otherwise they * Iren. ibid. would have stopped their eares as Irenaeus sheweth and have fled from them as they would from you and from your unwritten Traditions * Iren. l. 3. c. 4. Irenaus demandeth How should we dâ—e if the Apostles had written nothing at all' must wee not then follow the rule Reply pag. 118. of Tradition delivered unto them to whom the Apostles committed the charge of the Churches 5. We reject not this kinde of Tradition which is the succession of true doctrine in the Church And what shall we doe seeing the Apostles have written Is it not our dutie to follow the rule of Tradition delivered in their writings and not onely to take that course now that the Apostles have written which Irenaeus prescribeth if the Apostles had not written What if the Scripture should be consumed so that not one Reply Coppie thereof should be extant which is possible And what if a man had lost the true sense and meaâ—ing of the Scripture how shall he finde it out must he not as Irenaeus saith Follow the order of Tradition delivered by the Apostles unto those unto whom they committed the Churches The 1. hypothesis is absurd and impossible The Sunne may aswell be pulled out of the heavens and the skyes fall as the Scripture perish n Staplet coâ—t Whiâ—ak de authorit Script l. â— c. 1. s â— If it should GOD himselfe must faile in his providence saith Stapleton The 2. hypothesis is possible A man may lâ—se tâ—e true meaning of the Scripture and the order of Tradition delivered by the Apostles is one but not the onely meanes to finde it out and how shall a man finde out this order of Tradition in the originall of it better then by the Scripture it selfe So that when all is done the Scripture is the best interpreter of it selfe o Legitima sine periculo est expositio scripturae secundum ipsas scripturas Iren. l. 4. c 63. The exposition of Scripture according to the Scriptures themselves is the most surest saith Irenaeus The Apostles have written their writings are preserved the true meaning of them is well knowne Yet we reject not this meanes but doe follow the order of Tradition delivered by the Apostles as long as wee follow their writings for both by preaching and by writing they taught the same Popish Traditions are not of this order they were never taught by the Apostles nor by them to whom the Apostles committed the care of the Churches but onely of old by Heretickes and of late by an Anti christian faction Moreover S. Augustine teacheth us that there be many Reply pag. 118 points of faith for which wee have no written word * Aug. epist 128 In those things of which the holy Scripture saith nothing what course are wee to holde that which is used by the Church throughout all the world is to bee observed saith S. Augustine and it would be insolent madnesse to dispute against the same 6. The Iesuite mistaketh both the * Epist 128 for 118. place the point S. Augustine speaketh not of points of faith at all but onely of some rituall points or customes then in use as of the use of holy dayes of receiving the Eucharist fasting and the like These come not within the compasse of this controversie And as it is madnesse to dispute against these things so it is litle better in him then madnesse to dispute about these things and to call these things points of faith For * Aug. de bap cont Donatist l. 4. c. 24. whatsoever the Church universall doth holde if it Reply be not found or dained by some Councell but hath been alwayes in use it is most justly beleeved to bee a Tradition of none other but of the very Apostles themselves S. Augustine treateth in this place of the Baptisme of Children and calleth it Traditum apostolicâ autheritate A thing delivered by Apostolicall authoritie or an Apostolicall Tradition And are not written doctrines delivered by Apostolicall authority S. Augustine did not account Baptisme of Children to be an unwritten Tradition as appeareth by the arguments taken out of the Scriptures which he useth wee neede not goe farther then this Chapter to finde one p Si quisquam hac in re authoritatem quaerat divinam c veraciter conjicere possumus quid valeat in parvulis baptismi Sacramentum ex circumcisione carnis quam prior populus accepit Augus ibidem If any man saith he desire divine authority in this point we may truely conjecture how powerfull in Children the Sacrament of Baptisme is by the circumcision of the flesh which the Iewes received And this is accounted by q Bellarm. l. 1. de Baptism c. 1 Bellarmine a strong argument to confirme this point In the next testimony S. Augustine writing of the custome or practise of not rebaptising those that have been baptised by Heretickes so that they have beene baptised in the name of the Trinity saith r Quam consueâ—â—dinem credo ex Apostolicâ— Traditione venientem Aug de baptism cont Donat. l. 2. c. 7. Which custome I beleeve came from Apostolicall Tradition * Aug. ibid Even as many other things are not found in the writings of the Apostles nor in the Councels of following ages yet because they are held by the whole Church they are beleeved to have beene delivered and commended by the said Apostles It is a weake argument drawne from custome to Articles of faith from practise to the doctrine of the Sacraments Wee read nothing for point of practise whether those that have beene baptized by Heretickes have beene rebaptized or no Yet the doctrine in this point is sufficiently taught in Scripture We beleeve it Å¿ Propter folidissima manifestâ—ssrâ—â— scripturarum fundamentâ— et testimonia Tiâ—â—â—aâ— defens Triden ad articul de
Scriptures and the Fathers and finde this for truth that Christ and his Apostles taught no unwritten Traditions If they did so what is this to the purpose unlesse the Iesuite can proove that the unwritten Traditions of the Romane Church are the same which Christ and his Apostles delivered They pretend that they are so so they doe in their miracles which are but coozening and juggling trickes of Leiger de maine so they doe in their reliques which are but grand impostures as the Angell Gabriels feathers our Ladyes smocke S. Peters chayne and the like these I beleeve are as true reliques from them as their Traditions are the same which Christ and his Apostles taught And as they are so is their authoritie which is the subject of his next Section wherein wee are to examine SECT III. VVhether unwritten Traditions are of equall authoritie with the written word 1. NOne but a Non ens would say that a Non ens can be of equall authority with the written word when as Bellarmine confesseth that a Bellarm. de â—erâ—o Dei l. 4. c. â— All Traditions are not of equall authority among themselves but without any distinction whatsoever this Iesuite would have them all to be of the same authority among themselves and of the same authority with the written word and the truth is they are no more worthy to be compared with the written word then b Ier. 13. 28. chaffe with wheat then drosse with c Is 1. â—2 silver The Iesuite hath already granted this * pag. 116. That the rites and ordinances of the Church are grounded only upon humane right and now he contradicteth the same that they are of divine right even equall with the written word and for this opinion he Reply p. 120. boasteth of Plaine Scripture and the uniforme consent of ancient Fathers It is no new thing to heare the enemies of the truth clayming the Scripture and the Fathers to be theirs after the same manner the Heretickes boasted that d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Euseb l. 5. hist c. 27. The Fathers and the Apostles held taught the same things which they said First let us heare his plaine Scripture * â— Thes â— 15. Therefore brethren stand fast and hold the Traditions which you have beene taught whether by word or by our Epistle This Text is no lesse then ten times alledged by him and once for all I returne this Answer to it Those Traditions are Reply pag. 121. written and not unwritten Doctrines S. Paul declareth his continuall practise e Act. 26. 22. Hee witnessed both to small and great and therefore to the Thessalonians none other things then those which Moses and the Prophets did say His doctrine delivered at Thessalonica was taken f Act. 17. 2. out of the Scriptures And suppose it was not written in the Olde Testament yet it might be written in the New by himselfe or by some other of the Apostles What he taught the Philippians by word of mouth the g Philip. 3. 1. same things he wrote afterwards unto them in his Epistle And unto the Thessalonians he wrote those things h 2. Thess 2. 5. which he first told them and i 2. Thess 3. 10. which he first commanded them The word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 used by the Apostle signifieth aswell both as whether and it is not onely disjunctive but very k 1. Cor. â—1â— 1â— c. 15. 11. Coloss 1. 20 Rom. 14. 8. oft conjunctive By which the meaning of the Apostle is declared to be this Holde fast the Traditions or the doctrines which have beene taught you both by word of mouth by Epistle The matter taught was the same although the manner of teaching was different both by word of mouth and by Epistle S. Ambrose expoundeth it thus l In Traditione Evangelij standum ac perseverandum monet Ambros in 2. Thess He admonisheth them to stand to persevere in the Tradition of the Gospell And Gretzer your Great Sire defending Bellarmine defendeth this interpretation that it might be the same doctrine which S. Paul delivered by word of mouth and by Epistle and giveth this instance for it m Sicut eadem fides quae confirmata olim fuit per Circumcisionem Pascha quae nuÌ„c coÌ„firmatur per Baptismum Coenam Gretz defens Bellarm. l. 4. c. 5 Even as it was the same faith which was formerly confirmed by Circumcision and the Passeover which is now confirmed by Baptisme and the Lords Supper It is most manifest by the precedent words that the Apostle speaketh of such Traditions as helpe to keepe out u 2. Thess 2. 3. The man of sinne the sonne of perdition It cannot then be that he should speake of unwritten Traditions because Popish Traditions are the onely key to let him in 2. To prove the uniforme consent of the Fathers he first alledgeth S. Chrysostome * Chrysost in â— Thess By this saying of S. Paul it is manifest saith S. Chrysostome that the Apostles did not Reply pag. 121. deliver all things by their Epistle but that they delivered many things without writing which are as worthie to be beleeved as those things which they left written We yeeld unto this that the Apostles have not delivered all things by writing And I will graunt more unto the Iesuite that the Apostles have not delivered all things by Epistle or by word of mouth which are and may be observed in the Church as all the rites and ceremonies of it and those are the things of which S. Chrysostome speaketh of things indifferent Concerning necessary things writing upon the same Chapter these are his words o 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Chrysost hom 3 in 2. Thes â— All things are cleare and true which are in the holy Scriptures all necessary things are manifest But that those things which are not necessary and are delivered without writing should be as worthy of faith as those things which are written this is one of his many hyperbolicall speeches it is rather a flourish of his Rhetoricke then a truth in Divinity S. Basil saith * Basil de Spirit Sanct. c. 29. I hold it to be an Apostolicall doctrine that Reply we adhere unto unwritten Traditions in proofe whereof he alleadgeth Scripture The Author is suspected but I passe by that for the present I hold with the Author that it is fit to yeeld unto such unwritten Traditions as he writeth of and those are onely rituall and not doctrinall Unto these we doe yeeld not as unto the word of God which is of divine power and abideth for ever but as to the Lawes of men which are of humane right and mutable according unto time place And in proofe of the lawfull use of those we oft cite Scripture as that Author doth In the next place he alledgeth * That of Epiphan is answered Sect. 2d. Divis 10. lit â— S. Hierome
* Hieron Dial. cont Lucifer c. 4â— Although saith he there were no authority of Scripture at all for this yet the consent of all the world herein would beare the force of a precept For many other things which are observed in the Reply pag. 1â—1 Churches by Tradition have obtained the authoritie of the written Law If S. Hierome himselfe had said this yet we might appeale from him as S. Augustine did who being pressed by him with humane authority said p Ad ipsâ—◠〈◊〉 Aug. Epist 19. I flye to Paul himselfe How much more may we justly doe the same when these are not the words of S. Hierome himselfe but of the Lucifirian Heretickes against whom he disputed by way of dialogue Is this the uniforme consent of the Fathers Is not this to shake hands with Heretickes This is no faire dealing either you are wilfully ignorant or you grossely corrupt S. Hierome You tooke it at the second hand or wanted sleepe when you read the place But will you heare S. Hierome himselfe speaking like himselfe concerning a certaine Tradition which had no warrant in the Scripture q Hoc quia ex Scripturis non habet authoritatem eâdem facilitate contemnitur quâ probatur Hieron in Math c. 23. This is as easily rejected as affirmed because it hath no authority out of the Scriptures And if one Tradition may be rejected because of this reason onely It hath no authority out of the Scriptures then by the same reason all your Traditions may be rejected unlesse you can bring authority for them out of the written word So farre was S. Hierome from beleeving unwritten Traditions to be of equall authority with the written word that he accounted that to have no authority which wanted the authority of the written word And in an other place he beateth downe unto the ground all unwritten Traditions by these words t Alia quae absque authoritate testimonijs scripturarum quasi Traditione Apostolicâ sponte reperiunt atque confingunt percutit gladius Dei Hieron in Hag. c. 1. Many other things which of their owne accord they invent and finde out as if it were by Apostolicall Tradition without any testimony or authority of the written word all those things the sword of Gods mouth striketh thorough And a little after he sheweth what such things are sit dayes of fasting night-watchings bodily labours sleeping on the ground the like these are things of great esteeme among our adversaries grounded upon Tradition without any warrant of Scripture and such things are strucken thorough by the sword of God In the last place Dionysius is brought in affirming * Dionys Areopag Eccles Hier. cap. 1. That Reply pag. 121 the apostles delivered the most high divine mysteries partly by their written partly by their unwritten institutions The Author is suspected not without just cause The Severian Hereticks were the first that objected them in a disputatioÌ„ betwixt theÌ„ the Catholicks in the yeare 532 The Catholickes made this Answer Å¿ Illa testimonia quae vos Dionysij Areopagitae dicitis unde potestis ostendere vera esse sicut suspicaminiâ— si enim ejus erant non potuissent latere beatum Cyrillum nec Cyrillum solum sed si Athanasius procerto scisset ejus fuisse illa allegaret contra Arianos in Coneâ—lio Nicaeno in ista quaestione de consubstantiali Trinitate Si autem nullus ex antiquis recordaâ—us est ea unde nunc potestis ostendere quia illius sunt Baronius Anno 532. S. 39 Those testimonies of Dionysius the Areopagite which you say are his how can you shew them to be his as you thinke For if they had beene his blessed Cyrill could not be ignorant of them and not onely Cyrill but Athanasius would have alledged them against the Arians in the Councell of Nice in the Question of the consubstantiall Trinity if he had certainely knowne that they were his And if none of the Ancient made mention of them how can you now shew them to be his This I have taken out of Baronius Bellarmine confesseth t Bellarm. de confirmat l. 2. c. 7. many doubt of this booke Erasmus and Cajetan writing upon the 17. Chapter of the Acts of the Apostles deny it to be his Eusebius and Hierome who were very carefull to finde out all the writings of the Ancient write not a word of it It ill became that Author to call u Cap. 1. Timothie his sonne He handleth the order of the Angels and of the heavenly Powers a thing which S. Paul could x 2 Cor. 12. 4. not utter Irenaeus giveth this censure on such as write of such things y Nihil â—anum dicunt delirant dicant nobis quae sit invisibilium naturn enarrent numeâ—m Aâ—gâ—lorum ordinem Archangelorum demonstrent Thronorum Saâ—â—menâ—a doceant diversitaâ—es Dominationum Principaruum atque virtutum Iren. l. 2. c. 54. It is not sound which they say they are no better then madde can they tell us the nature of invisible things can they setforth the number of the Angels and of the Archangels can they demonstrate the mysteries of the Thrones and teach the diversities of the Dominations Principalities and Powers He writeth of Temples Altars Quires Monkes and the like such things were not in Dionysius his dayes Our Adversaries reject many things in this booke and we reject this testimony as false which the Iesuite calleth his irrefragable confirmation 3. And now not being able to prove any thing for the authoritie of unwritten Traditions out of the Fathers he would perswade the Reader That his more learned Adversaries then himselfe he meaneth as Reinolds Whitaker Fulke and Kemnitius have censured some and have acknowledged Reply pag. 121. others of the Fathers to be great Patrons of Traditions as Basil Epiphanius Chrysostome Dionysius Ignatius Clement Origen c. It would be tedious to examine all those apart and to shew their opinions concerning Traditions in this place onely for the present take this generall answer 1. For censuring of the Fathers some of them have deserved it in holding false and frivolous Traditions so that our writers have justly censured Epiphanius for his foolish delighting in uncertaine genealogies Origen for his fiction that x Origen in Maâ— tract 35. Christ had diverse aspects oft changeing his visage which made the Iewes desire of Iudas a signe to know thereby which was he And concerning Iustine Martyr Irenaeus Epiphanius and others Bellarmin saith a Non video quomodo ab errore possumus defenderâ— Bellarm. de Beatit sanct l. 1. c. â— I see not how they can be defended from error S. Augustine teacheth us that b Liceat aliquid in â—orum sâ—riptis rejiâ—erâ— August epist 111. it is lawfull to reject some things in the writings of the Fathers The giving of the Eucharist unto children and the deferring of the Baptisme of Children untill Easter is censured and rejected
excludeth the Baptisme of those Heretickes which did not baptize in the name of the Trinity but of the rest thus he disputeth The Baptisme of CHRIST is not to bee reiterated but the Baptisme of Heretickes is the Baptisme of CHRIST The Assumption hee prooveth by this medium By the testimonies of Scripture it is plainly prooved that they have the same Baptisme with the Saints Thus S. Augustine determineth this point by the Scriptures Such is the Fast of Lent Reply 9. Fasting is a Christian duety needfull for our salvation such is not the Fast of Lent The i On Mat. 1. Rhemists doe account it to be a written doctrine grounded upon Scriture Hosius the Cardinall reckoneth it among k Hosius in confess Petrocovien c. 4. de caeremonijs the Traditions of the Church The Iesuite is of opinion that it is a Tradition of the Apostles and for this he citeth S. Hierome saying * Hieron epist ad Marcel Wee faste one Lent by Apostolicall Tradition This he calleth Apostolicall not because it came from the Apostles but because it had gained some space of time for the observing of it in the Church for S. Augustine ascribeth the invention of it l Aug. epist 119. unto the Church And though it were an unwritten Tradition comming from the Apostles yet S. Hierome did not thinke it to be a doctrinall Tradition for m Doctrinâ— Ecclesiae quae est domus Dei in librorum repe ritur plenitudine divinorum Hierom. in Epist 155. ad Paulam Vrbicam The doctrine of the Church which is the house of God is found in the fullnesse of the divine bookes saith S. Hierome It must needs be then a rituall Tradition and such are impertinent to this Question Such also is the commemoration and prayer for the dead Reply pag. 126. in the sacrifice of the Masse witnesse S. Chrysostome * Chrysost hom 3. in Phi It was not in vaine ordained by the Apostles that in the celebration of the venerable mysteries a remembrance should bee made of the deceased They knew well that great comfort and profit did from hence arise unto the dead 10. The private conceit of every Doctor is not the publicke tenent of the Church especially in this point of prayer for the dead in which as most of the Fathers differed among themselves so S. Chrysostome dissented from the most of them It was his opinion That wicked livers that such as were not and would not bee baptized might bee prayed for that such as were in hell might receive some benefite by the prayers of the living Concerning such writing upon the same Chapter he saith n 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c Chrysost in Philip Hom. 3. Let us weepe for such let us succour them according to our power let us finde out some helpe for them little indeede but yet such as may releive them How and after what manner By praying for them Châ—ysostome deserveth to be censured for this for Gregory in his Morals saith o Greg. Moral in Iob l. 34. c. 16 We may aswell pray for the Devill and his Angells as for such and it is the generall tenent of the Romane Doctours that onely those are holpen by the prayers of the living who dye in the state of grace and being dead goe into Purgatory and not unto Hell For thy full satisfaction in this point reade the Article of prayer for the dead which is most learnedly handled by the most reverend Primate unto which I will adde this wee distinguish the point it selfe of praying for the dead from the practise of praying for them at any set time and namely at the time of celebrating the divine Mysteries this is but a custome or p Epiphan in fine Panarij ordinance of the Church by the judgment of Epiphanius of this S. Chrysostome speaketh and such things are as impertinently objected by the Iesuite as this is falsely affirmed by S. Chrysostome Such also is the custome of baptizing Infants before they doe actually beleeve for S. Augustine sayth Reply pag. 126 * Aug. de Genes ad lit l. 10. c. 23. The custome of the Church in baptizing of Infants were not at all to bee beleeved unlesse it were an Apostolicall Tradition And Origen saith * Orig. in Rom. c. 6. The Church received from the Apostles this Tradition to conferre baptisme even unto children 11. None but an Anabaptist would hold this opinion that the baptisme of Children is not warranted by Scripture If he had learned the Catechisme of Trent or if he had read Bellarmines first Booke and eight Chapter de Baptismo hee would not have inserted this into his catalogue of unwritten Traditions That which he produceth out of S. Augustine overthroweth all that which he with so much toile in this and in the former Section hath laboured for to build for if This or that is not to be beleeved unlesse it be an Apostolicall Tradition how then can Ecclesiasticall Traditions be beleeved or how can they be of the same credit and authority with the written word We distinguish betweene the doctrine and the practise in the Sacrament of Baptisme and likewise betweene doctrines expressely written in the Scriptures and by sound inference deduced from them S. Augustine proveth the doctrine by diverse texts of holy Scripture by this q August de peceat merit l. 1. c. 27. He that hath the Sonne hath life By that r Idem de verbis Apostol Serm. 8. He shall save his people from their sinnes And by the Å¿ Idem de Bapt. cont Donat. l. 4. c. 24. Circumcision of Infants As for the custome or practise whereof S. Augustine speaketh we read not of any Children baptised neither doe we read that any Apostles that any old men or widdowes or virgins were baptised but yet the generall precept and practise of baptising the Species under which these Individualls are contained is a sufficient warrant for their baptisme And this custome is to be beleeved * Nec omnino â—redenda est nisi Apostolica osse Traditio esses for esse is crept into the text in S. Augustin to be an Apostolicall Tradition that is a practise according to the written word which is the Tradition of the Apostles In the same sense Origen calleth it a Tradition received from the Apostles He proveth it by this text t Origen Hom. 14. in Luc. Vnlesse a man be borne againe of water and of the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdome of God Stupleton teacheth the same that we teach concerning this and sundry other points of faith that u Principia in Scripturâ— aperte posita quae plurimorum alioâ—um articulorum â—unt â—ontes seminaria ut de duabns â—atuâ—s una persona in Christo de necessitate baptizandi parvulâ—â— c. de aâ—is multis dogmatihus non aperte Scriptis â—de tamen firmiter deductis Stapleton Relect Princip fidei Contâ—
is lost contained onely leviora things of litle account Å¿ Si canonici ejusmodi libri extitissent ecclesia non fuisset depositi sibi traditi à Deo fidelis custos juxta illud 1. Tim. 6. oh Timoth depositum custodi c. Salmeron prolog 9 caâ— 4 If these bookes saith Salmeron had beene canonicall the Church had not beene a faithfull keeper of that which God committed to her according to that oh Timothie keepe that which is committed to thee It cannot then stand with the care of the Church which is Custes Rotulorum the keeper of Gods oracles that any booke of holy Scripture should be lost t Staplet Defens occles author cont Whitak l. 2. c. 1 It cannot stand with the providence of God which never faileth in things necessary to salvation saith Stapleton And he addeth That the Church is as much to bee blamed if she should lose a booke of Scripture as if she should lose a Sacrament But that we may wrestle the Iesuite with his wrestling argument let him answer this God by his providence and the Church by her care hath preserved the volume of the written word whole and intire so that not one booke of it is lost but many volumes of unwritten Traditions are lost and perished witnesse the five bookes which Egesippus wrote of the unwritten Traditions which the Apostles left unto the Church the which the * Sect. 2. Iesuite alledgeth against us And the booke written by Clemens Alexandrinus of the same subject neither is the Iesuite able to tell us what particular Traditions were contained in these bookes with us therfore the rule of saith remaineth whole intire but part of their rule is lost and perished And thus our Doctrine stands firme and sure notwithstanding all the shifts and cunning windings of this Iesuite there is in the Church perfectio integralis of the whole volume of Scripture not one booke of it is lost and there is in the Scripture perfectio finalis for the Church not one point of faith nor one good worke is there but it may be learned by the Scriptures This one testimony of S. Paul I preferre before the testimony of any Father yet because our Adversaries being convinced by the Scriptures give out that the Fathers are theirs as the Iewes did u Ioh. 8. 39. that Abraham is our Father Wee will therefore bee content to put our selves to be tryed by God and the Countrie not onely by the Scriptures but also by the Fathers whose verdict is returned in the next Section SECT VI. VVherein the Iesuite produceth senselesse exceptions against the Iury of the Fathers giving their verdict against him YOur Masters have told you that you disagree Reply p. 135. from the Doctrine generally received by the Fathers 1. I could tell you if it were not for manners sake that you lye notoriously You read this on the backeside of Constantine his Donation or of some of your golden legends for I am sure none of our Writers tell us so Name one if you can among our many Writers that doth acknowledge our disagreement from the Doctrine generally received by the Fathers in this point and if you cannot wee may easily judge how you will deale with the auncient Fathers when you deale thus with our late writers This is but a Iesuiticall fiction and it is evident that all our writers in combating with you about unwritten Traditions have fought against you at this weapon and have brought into the feild these champions of the truth helping to bring downe to the ground the Tower of Babel this sort of unwritten Traditions 2. Tertullian is the foreman of the Iury concerning whom the Answerer confesseth That hee was an earnest advocate for rituall Traditions unwritten and for doctrinall Traditions written c. In the opinion of the Iesuite this distinction of Rituall and Doctrinall Traditions serveth to no purpose It serveth for the true stateing of this Question It discovereth the Iesuites false stateing of this Question of Rituall Traditions onely And it sheweth his folly in heaping up a number of Fathers defending rituall Traditions unwritten for such are allowed in our Church But why serveth it to no purpose Because both of them may be Apostolicall Reply pag. 135 and are to be regarded as the written word and worthy of the same faith being delivered to the Church by the same Authors Are there no Rituall Ecclesiasticall Traditions to which you give the same credit and authority as to the written word Can those be Apostolicall Or were they delivered to the Church by the Apostles And although all Rituall Traditions were from the Apostles yet they are not to be regarded as the written word All that the Pope saith is not to be regarded as his Cathedrall voyce All that his Majesty saith is not to be regarded as his lawes and statutes The authority of things delivered may bee different although they be delivered by the same authors * Sect. 1. Divil â— the intention of the deliverer or the dignitie of the matter delivered may make the thing delivered more worthy of faith for this is certaine there may be a proposition beleeved in respect of the Author delivering yet the matter delivered may be not worthy to be an article of our faith Yet Tertullian having to deale with Hermogenes the Hereticke in a question concerning the faith presseth him with Answer the argument ab authoritate negativè * Tertul. advers Hermog â— 22. Whether all things were made of any subject matter I have as yet read no where let those of Hermogenes his shop shew that it is written If it be not written let him feare that wâ—e which is allotted to such as adde or take away The Iesuite painteth out an answer unto this and coloureth it with false glosses as if hee had gotten some relicks out of Hermogenes his painting shop It would be too tedious to lay downe all his wordes but the summe is this First this is no thing against us unlesse we should hold that Reply pag. 136. all points of faith are to bee proved by unwritten Tradition onely and none at all by Scripture For what if he presse the Hereticke Hermogenes in one point with the argument ab authoritate negativè must it follow that therefore he thought all points might be proved in the like manner The boyes of the Logicke Schoole doe know that an Inference universall is absurdly deduced from particular Premisses Hath not the Iesuite told us * pag. 126. They that deny unwritten Tradition can have no sure ground for their faith The Popes infallibility is the α and ω the formall reason and onely perswasive demonstration of a Papists faith for although materiale fidei the thing which he beleeveth be a written Doctrine yet firmale fiaei or ratio credendi the reason why he beleeveth it is because the Pope saith it He will not beleeve that there is a written word
because they are all one with those things that be expressely written As for example Whether Children shal be baptised or no Or whether the baptised by Heretickes shal be rebaptised or no We read no expresse commandement nor evident practise either way yet by sound consequence these points may be determined out of the Scripture And of this in this testimony S. Augustine disputeth against the Dâ—â—atists Reply pag. 14â— The third is against the Non-conformists * Aug Epist â—â— ad Casul In thâ—se things whereof the Scripture hath deliveâ—â—◠〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 of Gods people and the 〈◊〉 of our Aâ—â—â—estâ—râ— are to be held for a law In this he disputeth of the rites customes or constitutions of the Church and specially of the Saturdayes fast concerning which in the same Epistle â—e giveth this advice Let the â—aith of the universâ—ll Church â—â— one alâ—hough the unity of faith be â—â—â—nded upon with diverse observations by the 〈◊〉 thâ—â— which is true in the faith is â—â— way 〈◊〉 Here he distinguisheth these observations of the Church from â—â—th â—â—ith is one they are diverse they are not of faith but attend upon faith So that they are to bee held for 〈◊〉 yet not for the law of faith which is of divine â—ight universall and bindeth all but as the law of man which is but of humane right particular to some places like the Law of Gâ—â—all kinde and bindeth not all like the by-lâ—wes of a Corporation The fourth testimony which he citeth out of Augustine I finde it in his 118. Epistle and it is * Sect 2. Div. 6. formerly answered * Aug ad Inquisit laâ—â—aâ— l. 1. c. 1 All those things which we hold without writing onely by unwritten Tradition were commended and ordained either by the Apostles themselves or by generall Councells All such things are not Doctrinall but Rituall Traditions not points of faith but orders and constitutions for the Church This appeareth both by the words allâ—adged and by the subsequent words in the same Epistle Wee see in the words alleadged S. Augustine cannot well tell upon whom to father such things but he leaveth it doubtfull it may be they were from the Apostles and it may be they were ordained first of all by generall Coâ—â—â—lls But all points of faith are elder then the eldest Councell The Iesuite himselfe telleth us out of Aâ—hanasius * Pag. 140. It is not nâ—wâ—dayes that our faith received its beginning but it is derived from the Lord himselfe And Athanasius himselfe was one of the first generall Councell That of Gerson iâ— most câ—rtaine c Nec Papa neâ— generale Concilium potest facere aliquid esse de side quod antè non â—uâ—t Gerson part 1 de err cirâ—a pâ—aecept Non Occides Neither the Pâ—pâ— â—or any generall Councell can make that to be a point of faith which was not so before And in the words immediately following S. Augustine declareth what such things were as were delivered without writing As the Passion reâ—â—â—rection and ascensâ—â—â— of our Lord and the descâ—nsion of the holy Ghost are yâ—â—rely solemnely celebrated These Feastâ— put us in minde of greater things but the Feasts themselves aâ—â— to be accounted but as rites and ordinances belonging to the Church The fifâ— is against the Doâ—atists and it is like wise * Sect. 4. Div. â— formerly answered The Apostles have not commanâ—ded any thing in this poinâ— but that customâ— which was opposed unto Cyprian must be held to have taken its originall from their Tradition The point of rebaptization is the point of which he dispâ—teth concerning which we oft declared the judgment of S. Augustinâ— to be this that the Apostles expressely commaunded nothing in this point and yet that this point may be determined by sound inference out of the holy Scripture The sixt is this He would not beleeve the Gospell it selfe but that the authority of the Church moved him The summe of our former * Sect. â— Div. 2 answere unto this is this S. Augustine spake this of the time when he was a Manichee but after his conversion he maketh a better confession He speaketh of the primitive Church not of the now Roman Church That power which he ascribeth unto the Church is to be a mover to perswade us to beleeve not to be a law-giver to coyne Articles of our beleefe The 7th is likewise * Sect. 4. Div. 8 answered Although we have no certaine example hereof out of Scripture yet we hold the truth of the Scripture in this thing when wee doe that which now pleaseth the universall Church The Example which is sought for is an example how those were received when they returned to the Church who were baptised by Heretickes whether they were rebaptised or no We confesse the Scripture giveth no example how they were received but none can inferre because the Scripture containeth not an example in this point therefore it containeth not the Doctrine of this point The 8th is likewise * Sect 2. Div. â— formerly answered This neither thou nor I can fiâ—de plainly and evidently in the Scripture This is against the Dâ—natists in the same point and I returne the same answere This that is an example of this how they were received into the Church that were baptised by the Heretickes neither thou nor I can finde in Scripture Yea we confesse the point of Doctrine is not written plainely evidently and expressely word for word but by sound consequence it is deduced from the Scripture And now let the understanding Reader judge of the reason that moved the Iesuite to object all those testimoniâ—s which were formerly answered surely it was onely to make his promise good to heape up a number without any regard of their nature He mustereth his testimoniâ—s as some Captaines when their companies are not full muster their Souldiours presenting some of them three or foure times over The 9th is this * Aug. l. â— cont Crese â— I receive not that which Cyprian held because Reply p. 14â— it is not received by the Church And I receive not that which is held by the Iesuite because it is not received by S. Augustine Doe I therefore hold unwritten Traditions Cyprian held rebaptization Augustine held the contrary and confuteth him by the authority of the Church but doth the use of one meanes exclude the power of another Because he confuted him by the authoritie of the Church could he not therefore confute him by the authority of Scripture Cyprian would have this question to be tried by the Scripture f Cypâ—ian epist 74. ad Pompâ—ium whence saith he is this Tradition Is is descended from the authoritie of our Lord and the Gospell or doth it come from the Acts or Epistles of the Apostles And a little after Let us goe to the fountaine to the Evangelicall and Apostolicall Tradition This is so evident that Bellarmine confesseth g Bellar de verbo non script l.