answere suppose you they coulde make I thynke none other but as I haue made you before That is we knowe it by oure elders or holye prophetes and fathers before vs. Nowe I wyll aske you a questian whiche shall not be impossible nor verie vnlyke If it pleased God to moue the herte of a Iewe whiche wer neither christian nor turke to seke in the worlde here the moste perfecte religion He goeth to the Turkes and cometh to the christians Wherwyth woulde you perswad hym to thys perfect religion Woulde you preache to hym constitutions coūselles and customes of the elders He mought then as well beleue the turkes as you For they haue many thynges in their lawe that seme to be verie godlye And they re authoritie wythout authoritie of scripture is euen as good as yours But I knowe you wyl saye what so euer you thinke that you woulde preache the Gospell vnto hym Then must you nedes graunte that the scripture is of greater efficacie and strength them oure fathers elleders and counsayles If you wyll yet wyth your questians affirme that the fathers whyche descended frome tyme to tyme frome the Apostles hither to haue greater authoritye then the scripture I wyl axe you an other questian The Apostles of Christ forsoke the ceremonies customes and constitutions of theyr elders forefathers and of as holye mother holye churche in the iudgemente of the worlde at that tyme as yours is w t the world at thys houre and of as longe continuaunce of tyme. Yet folowed they Christes doctrine who was named of those holye fathers a sediciouse felowe a newe tidinges bringer and an heretike Answere me nowe what touchstone had they to trye Christes doctrine wyth that they so ernestlye folowed hym and refused theyr forefathers olde holye doctours proceadynge from Moyses to Christ Ther were at that tyme auncient fathers which had great learneing both byshopes and priestes The tradions ordinaunces and ceremonies whiche they vsed receyued they of theyr elders lyke as you woulde haue vs to receiue the constitucions of oure elders Tell me nowe how can you excuse the Apostles They were but pore fisher men and net makers they wer not brought vp in the scholes they hadde not the leisure toturne and tosse those greate volumes to be made doctours of deuinitie nor law And yet within a whyle they toke vpon them to teach the great doctours and what mought those holye fathers haue sayed to these fishers Take hede to your fysheynge What haue you to do wyth the scripture It is not mete for euerie coblarde to be talkeynge of scripture Howe were these men so lyghtlye perswaded What touchestone I saye had they But seynge you woulde so fayne haue the name of the holye fathers and holye churche I axe you thys questian Those Apostles and Disciples of Christe whyche were in hys tyme wyth hym presente whyche preached and wrote the scripture were holy fathers and of the perfecte true churche If the fathers syeth theyr tyme haue dissented frome them in doctryne maners custome lawes or in anye thynge partayneynge to Christes relygion whyche fathers woulde you folowe If you denye that the fathers haue dessented as is a fore sayed I refer the proue of it tyll a tyme of more leasure Partely because I thynke you wyll not denye it but chiefelye because my letter woulde be to longe Wherfore I wyl come to your thyrde question whyche in dede includeth the matter of all the reste whiche is thys If ther aryse anye contention in vnderstandeynge the Scriptures wherein boeth the parties bringe scripture for them whoe shall nowe discusse the matter Where is nowe the toucheston The scriptures can not For boeth bring scripture And the scripture you meane causeth y e cōtrouersye But I aske you whether the scriptures be deuided or no If they be deuided then accordinge to Christes worde they muste be confounded But that is an incōuenience and I knowe well you wyll not graunt that If the scriptures be not deuided but agre in one as they do in deede for one place cannot be repugnaunte to an other thoughe it so seme then haue not boeth parties scripture for them but y e one partie must nedes falsely alledge scripture But you will aske me who shal geue sentence or by whom the cōtrouersye shal be appeased and where is Luthers touchstone In dede at your sermō no man made answer Wherefore you made answere and sayde the holye gooste must be tuchstone As who should saye Luthers answere were not the very same When he sayeth gods worde must be the touchston as you reporte of hym And I praye you maister Chrispyn what difference is betwene gods worde and godes spirite Is not goddes worde the breath of gods mouthe And call you not that the holye goste Howe be it it is easilye perceyued what ye meane Ye put in the holye gost for a cloke to deceiue vs wyth albeit ye meane nothing lesse then the holye gooste If you aske me how I proue it I answer thus I proue it Wythout fayeth it is not possible to please God but fayeth cometh by the word of god Ergo wythout the worde of God nothyng can please God But you exclude the word of God from the spirite of God and in stead of that ioyne vnto it fathers counsayles and oure mother holy churche for you saye the worde of God can not be touchston ▪ but onelie beare wytnesse but the holye gooste is the touch stone whoe was and is in the holye fathers that haue alwayes gathered counsayles by whyche all thynges muste be iudged and dermined To proue thys ye alledge these wordes Where so euer two or three be gathered together c. These holye fathers you affirme to be the byshopes and prelates But thus to include the holye gooste into byshopes you exclude y e word of god If this be not to be disceiued sure I am deceyued But it were necessarie for you to proue the chur that you speake of to be the true-holye and catholyke churche before you perswade men so ernestye to belyeue and stycke vnto it But I saye the churche that taketh awaye the authoritye of goddes worde or diminisheth it by anye meanes is not of Christe But you mayster Chrispyne graunte youre selfe to be of thys churche Ergo etc. And in myne opinion you do naught to say that all holy fathers frō Christ to thys time wer of the same opinion that you be of concernynge goddes worde For I dare saye Augustine whome you admytte to be of the verye holye church wyll not hold wyth you in thys matter But if he woulde the authoritye of Christe is greater Whoe is it that wyll not suspecte your churche seynge you set it so high in Lucifers place aboue Christe and separate the hollye goste from Christe where as Christe sayeth I am that I say vnto you What is y t he spake vnto vs Is it not his word He saith moreouer the wordes y t I speake are spirite lyfe I
doctours saye they and beleue the catholyke churche whiche hath continued frome Christes tyme hitherto we can shewe say they bi auncient writers from tyme to tyme sence Christs ascention But what can these men shewe Be not these writters whiche I haue rehersed of the chieffest of theÌ„ And al thes agre that their wrytinges must be tried by the scripture and if that allowe theÌ„ not they would not in any wise that we should beleue them This is a wonderfull thynge y t they would haue vs geue such credite to the doctours whiche thynge the docters them selues forbyd But they haue alwayes this sayeinge of Augustine in their mouthes I would not beleue the gospel except the authoritie of the câ—urch did moue me Nowe as sone as they haue caught thys in theyr sermons thei triumph Lo say they what authorite did this gâ—eat doctour attribute to y e church in so much that y e gospel is and must be iudged by y e church For wtout the church he would not beleue christes gospel manye wordes haue they which I caÌ„ not remembre But me think these meÌ„ mought be answered out of Augustines owne wordes before rehersed For he wil geue no such credit to any mans writtinges what so euer he be as he doth to the scripture neither would he y t any maÌ„ woulde he that any man should so esteme his writtynges For al hys wryttynges dooe not please hym Therefore if they wil haue me beleue Augustines wordes they muste proue them true bye the scripture or else by some other probable and sure reasone that dissenteth not frome the truethe else maye not I beleue Austens wordes For thys he counselleth hym selfe But admytte Austens wordes to be true wythout anye contradicion What moughte then be sayed to it These be Augustines wordes I shoulde not beleue the Gospell onlesse the authoritye of the churche moued me Nowe I aske you what the authority of the churche is What cal you y e authorite of y e church Is it long continuance of time TheÌ„ was christes doctrine doubtful For the scribes and phariseis had that on theyr syde Or is it the greater number With lyke reasone we maye refuse Christes Gospell For many be called sayeth he and fewe elected Or else was it the consent of learned wise men All thys had the great byshopes and high pristes in christes time For they were great learned and wyse men But saynt Paule axeth wher be the wyse Wher are the scribes where are the disputers of the worlde Hath not god made the wysdome of the worlde foleishenesse Therfore let them declare vnto me the verie true authoritye of the churche And I make heare distinctioÌ„ of churches For Christe and the Apostles haue prophicied that theyr shal come false prophetes in Christes name and shal rise euen froÌ„ amonge our selues shall speake peruerse doctryne These men come in Christes name and saye they be christes chruch But I am assured they be not Christes true spouse For Lira writinge vpon Mathe sayth The church standeth not in men by the reason of spirituall powre or secular dignitie For many princes and many popes and other inferiour persones haue swarued frome the fayth Wherfore the church doth stande in those persones in whom is y e true knowledge and coÌ„fession of fayth and veritie Therefore it must nedes by Lira his wordes consiste in the scriptures For the gyfte of fayeth and vnderstandeynge the veritye is the worckeynge of the holye spirite that confortour which the Lorde promised to those that beleue hys worde But because they alledge me Austens wordes I wyl answere theÌ„ with Austen him selfe wrytinge vpon the .lvii. Psal Wee speake true thynges sayth he which haue heard true thinges that the lorde sayth not that maÌ„ sayth It may be that man may lie it can not be that god should lye By the worde of trueth do I knowe Christe the same verie trueth By the worde of trueth do I knowe the church to be partaker of the trueth Nowe lette them scan these wordes and tell me where the true touchestonne is Then alledge they these wordes of Christe I haue yet muche to saye vnto you but you can not nowe beare it a waye Nowe be it when the spirite of the trueth commeth he shall leade you into all trueth etc. And agayne Manye other tokens dyd Iesus before hys his disciples Which are not writen in this boke Here staye they and go no farder for it foloweth But these are written that you shoulde beleue etc. But seynge we haue begone wyth Saynte Augustine we wyll ende wyth him He wryteth vpon this same place of Iohn and sayeth They were chosen and pycked out as many as were thought necessarie and sufficient for the saluacion of the faythfull Cirillus also affirmeth the same and sayeth more ouer that althynges that the wrytters thought sufficient boeth for the fayeth and beleue and also for y e coÌ„uersacioÌ„ of men that wee myghte shyne wyth a ryghte and perfecte fayeth and wyth true workes and vertues and so come to the Kyngdome of heauen thorowe oure Lorde Christe be wryten sayeth he and therefore it is a newelye inuented in y e diuilles shop to saye that all the articles of oure christian fayeth can not be proued by scripture and mens tradicions bysyde the scripture be goode workes and please God These be Cyrillus workes And therefore sayeth Saynte Ambros in hys fourth boke of virgines All newe thynges that Christe hath not tought we lawfully condemne For vnto faythful men sayeth he Christe is the waye If Christe therefore haue not taught that we teache sayeth he we iudge it to be detestable Nowe let these holye fathers turne and tosse these olde holye doctours and let them fynde me out a touchston some other wher For these doctours say playnely the worde of God the holy scripture the word of truth is y e rule wherby Christes true church is ordered gouerned enstructed For whosoeuer sercheth findeth The holy gost faileth not such as seke him ther but to seke him in anye other place is no promise made As for theyr general counsayles that they sticke so muche vnto is but a weake foundacion For saynt Austine writtynge agaynst the donatistes sayeth Who is it that knoweth not the holy canonical scriptures boeth of the olde and newe testamente to be conteined within certayne limettes and bouÌ„des And that they be so put before al the wrytinges of bishopes y t shal come afterward that it can not be doubted at all neyther can we be deceyued of the whether it be true or whether it be ryght and good or not what soeuer is knowen to be writen in them But al other wrytynges of byshopes or else which either haue writteÌ„ or shal write after the confirmacion of the cananicall wrytynges maye be reprehended both by the wordes or wyse senteÌ„ce of some more knoweynge man in that matter as well as by the sage authorite
perceyued by the helpe of God nether by oure selues or other c. Suche a one am I in other mens writtinges as I would other men should be in myne If we had no moe sayeinges of the doctours but thys one consideringe the estimacion Augustine is in it were inoughe to ouerthrowe all the confidence that they woulde teach vs to haue in mens writinges besyde gods worde But heare an other He writeth vnto Hierome and sayeth I haue learned to geue this feare and honoure onlye vnto the writters whiche be called canonicall y t I stedfastly beleue that none of them haue erred in writtinge For if I finde anye thinge in those letters y t semeth contrary to the trueth either I thinke the boke not to be true or the translater hath not truelye folowed his copie or else I think verilye I do not vnderstande it But I read al other writers saieth he after this maner that I thinke be they neuer so holy and well learned that it whiche they haue written is not strayte way true because they haue thought so but because they coulde make me beleue it either by those canonical authoures or else by some probable and sure reasone which dissenteth not frō the trueth He writeth agaynste one Cresonius the grāmariā sayinge I am not boūd by the authoritie of this Epistle because I do not cōpt and esteme Ciprians letters as canonicall of lyke authoritie w t the scripturs but I way thē pōder thē by the scripture If I finde any thing in thē agreinge w t the authoritie of holy scripture I receyue it with his praise But if it agre not bi his leaue fauour I refuse for sake it Againe in his treatise of shepherdes He hath ordeined y e hilles of Israel sayth he y e authours of holy scripturs There feade ye that you maye feade salfelye What so euer ye heare of that let it sauoure well wyth you whatsoeuer is besides that spite it out agayne leste ye erre in the clowde Addict youre selues to the meaneynge of the scripture There is the deyntie of y e hert there is no poysen no straynge thynge ther onelye is the moste holesome feadeyng Beholde the mynde of this great doctour named to be one of the greateste clarkes that wrot sence the aposteles tyme. He woulde haue no mans doctryne what soeuer he be to be compared to the holye scriptures In hys owne wryttynges he warneth vs that we shoulde not geue ouer much credence in the thynges sayeth he that you thynke yourselfe suer vnles ye surely vnderstande it beleue it not so stidfastely And writyng to Vincentius he graūteth that he hath wryten some thynges worthye to be blamed and therefore sayth that he hath made a boke of retractacions reuoking and casting agayne that which he had made before that the readers thereby maye learne that al his writinges in al points dyd not please hym Thys diffidence had Augustine in his writynges that in no case he would compare them wyth the scripture And loke what opinion he had of his owne writinges euen the same had he in al other mens besides the canonicall scriptures For he sayth in his boke of retractaciōs I cā not nor ought to denie sayth he but lyke as in myne elders so are many thynges in so many seuerall workes y t I haue made whyche maye be blamed wythout rayshnes with good iudgment If Austen wyl haue no credence geuen to mens writinges whether they be byshops or what so euer they be onlesse they bringe the authorite of scripture w t thē as he writteth to Vincentius We must make a differēce sayth he betwene mens wryttinges He nameth Hilarie Ciprian and Agrippie which be lyke were byshopes and the canonicall scriptures For they ought not so to be reade sayth he as though we might geuefurth suche testimonies of them that it shoulde not be lawefull to thinke other wyse then they affirme For peraduenture they vnderstande it otherwyse thē y e truth requireth He y t lusteth to searche Austēs workes shal find many thinges cōtrarie to their proud doctrine kycking against y e scriptures yea cōtrarie almost to al theyr blind erroures In so muche that I haue meruayled that they haue had him so longe in such estimacion and had not rather condemned hym for an heretike As for the authoritie of mens doctrine besyde the scripture he can not abyd But in all thynges he wylleth vs to haue respect to the scripture euē in prayseing god sayeth he let it be done as he hath appoynted lest in steppinge a syde we offend him that we would prayse And agaynste fanstus be writeth euē the same we must not tourne either to the right hand neither to y e lifte no not in y e prayse that we geue to god But euen the same praises sayeth he must we frame according to y e wil of y e scriptur And in y e xvi Cha. he sayth that they which would teach y e people any other thing thē y e canonical scriptures are not only false prophets but theaues robbars euē of our sauioure How cā our olde catholike fathers abyde thys felowe He calleth thē false prophetes theaues and robbars It is tyme the popes excommunication were out for hym He writeth agaynste the Maniches and sayeth Dispise you the scriptures whiche are commaunded and established with so great authoritye You do no miracles whiche if you dyd yet we would be ware of them in you because the Lorde teacheth vs to beware of suche saynge Ther shall aryse many false Christes etc. Many mo places maye there be founde in this mans workes which thei maye be a shamed to heare if it were nedfull But because they shall not conceyue al ther malise against Austen and parauēture haue hym in examinacion for slanderinge these holye fathers ye shal heare what Hierome sayeth He declareth y t Christ speaketh in Peter in Paule and that of the people and princes y e scripture is to be vnderstanded of the doctrine of the Apostls Of those sayeth he which were in it not of those which we beholde nowe And marke what he sayeth Those that were and not those that be that ye moughte vnderstande that what so euer shal be sayed after the Apostles tyme let it be cut a way sayth he for it hath none authoritie afterward Therfore if ther be any S. after the Apostles tyme he hath none authorite for thei come to late to be alowed quia nō fuerūt in ea sayeth he If y e saints must geue place to the holie scripture and haue none authoritye besydes that than what are they that make articles of our fayth or at least condemne thē for heretikes that wyl not receyue that doctrine that hath none authoritie of y e scripture but rather against the scripture The same Ierome vpon Ieremie sayth And they haue gone after straing gods as theyr fathers taught them
of their bishopes and by the prudence and learneinge of learned teachers and by counsayles if bi chaunce anye thynge be strayed from the trueth And those counselles sayeth he that be done in euerie prouince or region ought to geue place without any doubtes to the authoritie of the full counsayles whiche are done of the whole companie of Christian men And those generall counsayles that go before maye often tymes be amended by those that folowe after when soeuer anye thynge shall appere by anye experience whiche was before shet vp when so euer anye thynge is knowen that before was hyde wythout anye coloure of false holy pryde wythout anyeÌ„ puffed vp spice of Arrogancie without anye â–ª condemnacion of enuye or malice wyth pure humilitye wyth vniuersall peace and quietnes and wyth Christian charitie These be Augustines worde whiche beinge charitably vnderstande are surelye goode and profitable For the fyrste he setteth goddes worde euen the canonicall scriptures to be the very perfect and vndoubted touchstone As it were an euerlasting trueth agaynste the whiche no man maye repyne or stande Then of mens writtinges he declareth what the nature is and howe they ought to be vsed After that of generall counsayles to whyche thoughe he attribute much yet layeth he ther no suer foundacion but they maye conclude vpon matters that maye be afterwarde reformed But aalas when was ther any suche generall counsayle as Saynte Augustine here speaketh of But what shoulde we doubt of suche perilouse tymes spoken of in so manye places of the scripture to be euen nowe wherein that aduersarye is opened Whyche hath so longe tyme sate in the steade of God aboue all that is called God or goddes seruice The abhominacion of desolacion stode in the holye place That gallaÌ„t whore trimmed w t purpel hath ben drunke with the bloude of the Sayntes but the Lord hath shortened those daies for hys electedes sake and hath destroyed this wycked wyth the bryghtnesse of his comeing with the spirite of hys mouth For the Gospell is preached Blessed are they which are called to the lambes supper Among so manye fine and captiouse wyttes among so many swifte and diuers iudgmentes of men as are nowe regninge in the worlde harde shall it be for a right wel learned maÌ„ to please the multitude of them that be learned Wherefore I maye not nor wyl not loke for it But vnto you dearlie beloued brethern which onely desyre the glorie of God and the lorde Iesus and in the same lorde the must charitable reformacion and retourne of his elect froÌ„ blindnes errour vnto the perfite knoweledge of y e lordes heauenly doctrine to you bretherne I saye I make thys declaraion concerninge this my simple labour in thys wyse As touchynge my letter I dyd it God is my wytnes euen of a feruente zeale knowyng for a suretye that thought Maister Chripyne be learned and a greate sorte more which haue do hold the same opinion that he doeth yet am I certen that none of them is able to defend it either by scripture or doctours As coÌ„cerneing y e authoritye of the doctours I take them euen as thei y t selues desier That is If they expouÌ„de anye place of scripture declareynge to be so wyth the helpe of other manyfeste places of scripture or wyth a sure and probable reasone whiche is not contrarye to anye places of the scripture then I accepte it and prayse God for hys gyftes in them If not I let them passe as I fynde them For I haue not alledged them here to thentente that anye man shoulde thynke that the scripture is the more established thorow theyr learnenyge For all men are vayne and cursed is he that putteth hys trust in them But because these meÌ„ sticke so muche to them that in thys poynte are theyr enimies If they thinke I haue ben to quicke wyth them in any thinge let them knowe that the Lorde hath opened his wysdome euen vnto babes And in those thynges we maye not nor wyll geue place to such wyse and prudente from whome they be hyd If they can finde in their hertes to geue place to the infallible veritye of Christes doctrine If they can be contented to caste awaye the hye estimacioÌ„ that thei haue in theyr muche readynge and longe continuance of tyme wyth the titles of honoure geue them by men If they can thorowe pure charitye and desyre of vnitie caste them selues into suche an humilitie as to thynke that God hath opened that vnto simple men whiche thorowe theyr hante mynde is kept from them If they woulde I saye haue theyr whole respecte to the laste wyll and testamente of the lorde Iesus Christe in so muche that if it were an asse that speake vnto them any of those wordes they woulde yet here hyr and regarde the wordes for hys sake who so they be if they were thus minded I would wyshe to speÌ„d a greate parte of my lyfe wyth them I woulde reuerence theyr learneinge and geue them as much honoure as appartayneth vnto suche men But beinge other wyse puft vp contrarye to ryght charitye and in a wronge estimacion of them selues and despyceing Christes simplicitie the Lorde cut ther combes And therfor I hertely exhort al faithfull bretherne to lyfte vp theyr hertes wyth me vnto the lyueinge God in pure fayeth geueing hym most ernest hertie and humble thankes for that he of his tender mercie hath geuen vs so towardelie a yonge kynge so graciouse a gouernour so vertuouse a counsayle by whose meanes all cruell tirannye and murderinge of innocentes is banished pure christian charitye put in vre and practise the lordes doctrine brought in agayne into the seate a poynted strauÌ„ge learneinge banished and put awaye the true worship and seruice of God fouÌ„de out the Idole seruice and false worshippynge driuen out of the church of God Thys waye shall the filthy and vncleane conuersacion of men be purified and y e vncharitable and vnfayethfull dealynge of neyghbours shal be reduced into vnitye fayethfulnes and immutable loue whiche alwayes shal continue in the lyueynge God throughe Iesus Christe Whose name be magnified praysed and exalted for euer Amen ☞ Written the .vii. of Nouembre Anno Domini M.D.xlvii P. N Imprinted at London by Iohn Day and Wyllyam Seres dwellynge in Sepulchres Parish at the signe of the Resurrection a litle aboue Holbourne Conduite Cum gratia priuilegio ad imprimendum solum Esai xxix Ioel. ii i. Pet. â— Esaie xi ii Tim. iii. i. Ti. vt Iohn i. Iohn viii Psal Cxviii Idem Cxiii Deute xxxii Io. vi Iohn iii. Esai viii Rom. i Iohn xii Math. vii Ioh. viii Iohn xv Iohn xâ— ii 〈◊〉 ii Math. xxiiii ii These ii i. Timoth. iiii Deut. iiii Iosue i. Deut. vi xxxii Iohn vi Math. vii Galath 1. Apoc. xxii Math. x. Math. vii Esai xxix Colos. ii Epist clxxxxviii Libr. iii. Fol. clxi Libro ii Cap. xxiii Tractatu postorum Augustinus in prologo tertu lib. De Trinitate Idem ad Vincentium Epist xlviii Austinus super Ssal cxlxii Libr. vi Cap xiiii Tomo v. Capit. xlv Tomo xi Ca. pite iii. Capit. xxiii Capt. i. De fide ca. v. Libr. iii. Epist iii. Libr. i. Cap. l vi Corh i. Math. xix Math. xx Iohn xx Tractatu xlix Capit. ix Supâ—r Iohn Capit. xii Capi. iii.