Congregation and if any through ignorance doe sing that which is not sutable to their condition may not or must not others in the same congregation sing those things that are sutable to their condition That the Psalmes to be read by such is no sin unless you count reading the Scripture to be sinne and why may they not as well sing them as read them seeing the one is a duty as well as the other they may sing them doctrinal as well as read them doctrinal as the truths contained in the Psalms and such may be convinced by singing them as wel as reading them as in the particulars objected O Lord I am not puft in mind may not a proud person be convinc'd that he ought not to be proud and when a wicked man singeth My heart is bent to keep thy Law may not he thereby be convinced and taught by that Doctrine that his heart ought to be bent to keep the Law That it is ignorance of a mans own condition and of the matter contained in the Psalmes to think or say that the Psalmes are not sutable to our conditions for every Psalm setteth forth either the Attributes and workes of God and his Christ or else describeth the estate and wayes of the Church and People of God or describeth the estate and wayes of the wicked or else it doth lively express mine own affections and afflictions temptations and comfort But whatsoever the matter of the Psalm concerneth either of God or his Christ the godly or the wicked my self or others the good or evil estate of one or other it ever ministreth fit matter and occasion to me of singing forth the prayses of the Lord since the name of God is to be blessed in and by all whether it goe well or ill with our selves or others and I believe that there is no condition the Church is or can be in in general nor no condition which any Member is or hath been in but there are Psalms sutable to the same and several Clerks are able to chuse such Psalms as are fit and sutable for all times and for all states and conditions of the Church and sutable for all Ordinances and sutable to all Doctrines And lastly the general practice of the Churches of Christ is to me a thing much to be considered and that it was the practice of the Churches of Christ after the Apostles dayes several Histories do testifie as Mr. Cotton doth largely prove in his book written in defence of this Ordinance of singing of Psalmes against the Antipsalmist But you follow the Papists your Fathers who are as great enemies to singing of Davids Psalmes as your selves and I could wish that some Protestants were not too much tainted with that Opinion The Papist in contempt of singing of Psalmes call them Genevah Jigs as you Quakers and other Sectaries the brood of Antichrist scoff at our Ministers and people for singing of Psalmes calling them Hopkins Jigs But I hope I have sufficiently proved that we follow the example of Christ and his Apostles and all reformed Churches and that you do sin in not following the command and example of Christ and his Apostles and therefore are not perfect and so I pass from this particular in which I have been the longer in regard I have been so often opposed by you for practising this duty And now I come to a fourth particular in which you walk contrary to the rule of the Scripture and that is your practice in suffering and maintaining women to teach in your meetings which you call your Church Now this practice I have not only heard of but am an eye and ear witness of having heard two several women speak and teach in your meetings where I heard them speak such nonsensical erronious stuff that it is a shame to write it And this practice is justified and maintained in Print by one of their chief teachers Richard Fanworth for so he saith is his name in the flesh who hath written a Pamphlet called A woman forbidden to speak in the Church the Grounds examined the Mystery opened the Truth cleared and the Ignorance both of Priests and People discovered where by the way take notice that where ever the letter of the Text doth speak directly against your errors then you say there is a Mystery in it and that none can open but your selves But where the Letter of the Scripture seemeth to speak for your errours then you say away with your mystical meanings the Scripture is to be understood as they speak according to the Letter which I have often heard from your own mouths and read in your books Wherefore I shall indeavour to prove Mr. Fanworths Mystery opened to be the mystery of iniquity proceeding from the spirit of Antichrist being directly against the Doctrine of Christ contained in the Scripture For saith the Apostle Paul to the Corinthians Let your women keep silence in the Churches for it is not permitted unto them to speak but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the Law And if they will learn any thing let them aske their husbands at home for it is a shame for women to speak in the Church also the Apostle to Timothy Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection But I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurp authority over the man but to be in silence Object But you Quakers say that there is a mystical meaning which none know but your selves And that is that by the woman is meant the flesh and by the speaking is meant the Spirit which is in the Saints and that may speak in the Church whether in man or woman male or female this Farnworth writeth in opening the Mystery Also Sarah Blackbury when I alledged the Apostles words to her in William Bonds House after she had been three or four hours there a teaching or prating on the Lords day she made me this Answer thou art the woman for thou art Flesh that is weak and therefore thou art to keep silence and I may speak because I have the Spirit by which the Scripture was written but thou hast not the Spirit and therefore hold thy babling for thou knowest not the meaning of the Scripture To which I replied but what is meant by the Husbands that the women are to learn of and to ask them at home To which Susan Bond answered Christ was the Husband and of him they were to be taught and Sarah Blackbery seemed to like the Answer well for she made no exceptions against it neither can she nor any one else if their doctrine be true that they all have an infallible Spirit and cannot erre else they cannot be perfect for error is sin and I shall prove this to be an error when I have taken away the false Vizzard which you have put upon the these Texts of Scripture Wherefore to shew you your error I shall shew you the great
first lay down this proposition that all Ministers since the Apostles days are not called immediately by an extraordinary call as the Porphets and Apostles were but mediately in an ordinary way of calling Which calling is not the calling of men but the calling of the Holy Ghost because that calling which the Holy Ghost hath revealed in the Scripture and that I shall prove by Scripture for after that he was ascended into heaven Judas being faln from his Apostleship and another to be chosen in his room the Apostles being met together concluded from what was written in the Scripture that another should take his charge wherefore they presented two out of the number of those who was conversant among them from the Baptism of John and they prayed and gave forth their Lots and the Lot fell on Matthias and he was numbred with the eleven Apostles No man pretended that he had the Spirit and therefore that was a sufficient call neither did God call any by revelation or a Voyce from Heaven to that place of an Apostle in his room Also after the Apostles had gathered Churches they ordained Elders by election in every Church and the Apostle Paul saith that he left Titus in Creet that he should ordain Elders in every City and the Apostle writing to Timothy saith Despise not the gift that is in thee which was given thee by Prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the Presbytery or Eldership And Paul directed him whom to make Bishops or Elders And also the Apostle doth not only direct him but also charge him among other things that he should lay hands suddenly on no man One of your Speakers or Praters at one of your meetings at VVilliam Bond 's house hearing some in the Street threaten to pull them out of the house cryed out lay hands suddenly on no man as if the Apostle had meant of striking men suddenly But the Apostle saith that a Bishop or Elder must be no striker By which you may see how you are mistaken in the meaning of Scripture who pretend to have the infallible Spirit by which the Scripture was written as I have heard some of your company say And Jona Dell in his Book called The Voyce from the Temple writeth But your Spirit of error in misapplying Scripture is plainly discerned by all that have the Spirit of discerning and now I pray mind these things to use your own phrase and consider of these Texts of Scripture here written and let the Light of the Scripture enlighten your dark minds to see that those who have an external call as well as an internal call are the lawful Ministers of the Gospel and such are our Ministers Can you believe that God hath appointed order and government in a Common-wealth and in a Family and hath appointed none in his Church Now is it a sufficient warrant for a man to execute the Office of a Justice of the Peace a Constable or any other office in the Common-wealth because he hath sufficient gifts and inward qualifications without an outward call by those who are in authority either by Commission or otherwise and it is lawful for any man to execute the the Office of a publick Minister without a lawful call from those who are in publick Authority But I know your opinions are against all order or offices in the Church and so much you write in your paper making it to be a great fault that our Teachers bear rule Now that I may show you your error mind these Scriptures that prove Ministers to be Officers and such officers as are to rule in the Church The Apostle Paul writing to Timothy saith If a man desire the Office of a Bishop or Elder he desireth a good work and shewing how he ought to be qualified saith he must be one that ruleth well his own house else how shall he take care of the Church And the Apostle writing to the Corinthians saith That God hath set some in the Church first Apostles Secondarily Prophets Thirdly Teachers helps to Government Also the Apostle writing to the Romans saith All Members have not the same Office Wherefore he that is a Minister let him wait on Ministering or he that Teacheth on Teaching he that ruleth with diligence Also the Apostle writing to the Hebrews saith Remember them that have the rule over you and who are they the Apostle saith such who have spoken unto you the Word of God and in the same Chapter Obey them that have the rule over you and submit your selves for they watch for your souls But though you are like Korah and his company who were many Two hundred and fifty Princes of the Assembly famous in the Congregation men of renown who gathered themselves together against Moses and Aaron and said as you Quakers do to other Ministers and Magistrates you take too much upon you seeing all the Congregation are holy and the Lord is among them So you say Have not we the same Spirit the Apostles had Are not we all holy wherefore do you Priests take so much upon you But what became of those men God caused the Earth to open and swallow them up and take heed lest God show some special Judgement upon you by delivering you up to blindnesse of mind and hardnesse of heart Korah and his company had the same prâ—â—ences that you have but know it is not the inward gifts and qualifications only that makes a publick Teacher as I have proved but the lawful ordaining a man to that office and a man that is so called although he want the power of that which he teacheth as the Sons of Ely were lawfull Priests because lawfully called though they were wicked men and the Pharises and Scribes Christ saith sit in Moses Seat all therefore whatsoever they bid you observed that observe and do but do not ye after their Works for they say and do not Now by their sitting in Moses Seat was that it was their office or calling to teach the Law and therefore Christ spake both to the Multitude and to his Disciples to hear them and Judas was a true Apostle and one that preached as the rest of the Apostles for it is said he had part in this Ministery But all those who are authorized for that work ought to be careful that they ordain none but such who are inwardly fitted and called and to that end the Apostle chargeth Timothy that he lay hands suddenly on no man but to try and examine both himself and others of his fitnesse and ability lest he be partaker of other mens sins Consider what I have here written in answer to your first Ground And now I shall answer your second Ground which is because they go to Oxford or Cambridge and learn Latine Hebrew or Greek To which I answer I know many Ministers that never went to these places to learn these languages and yet think
absurdities that do follow upon your interpretation and for a full clearing of the text in the Corinths consider the words before The Apostle saith ye may all prophesie one by one that all may learn For God is not the Author of confusion Now lest the women from the word all should think themselves permitted to prophesie as well as the men the Apostle to prevent their mistake whom he knew loved to speak too much saith Let your women keep silence in the Churches for it is not permitted unto them to speak where take notice that the Apostle speaketh in the plural number women and not permitted unto them to speak The Apostle always when he speaketh of the flesh speaketh in the singular number flesh also the Apostle speaketh in the plural number Husbands and not in the singular Husband by which you may see what most barbarous conclusions will follow upon your interpretation For if by the women be meant the flesh and by asking their Husbands be meant Christ then is Christ the Husband of the flesh and that there are more Christs then one seeing the Apostle saith ask their Husbands at home by which word home it will follow that Christ and the flesh dwell together and that Christ is the fleshes home so that you may see by maintaining an error you run into many grosse errors But you will say the Apostle to Timothy saith woman in the singular number To which place I answer that there will several errors follow if by the woman be meant the flesh in that place Let the woman learn in silence if by the woman be meant the flesh then is the flesh to learn But I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurp authority over the man but to be in silence If by the woman be meant the flesh then the flesh can teach and can usurp authority over the Spirit for Adam was first formed then Eve if by the woman be meant the flesh then is the flesh Eve and was of Gods forming Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing if they continue in Faith and Charity and Holynesse with Sobriety if by the woman be meant the flesh then may the flesh be saved in child-bearing and may have Faith Charity and Holynesse with Sobriety Now let your selves and others judge whether you have an infallible Spirit the same Spirit that the Apostles had that writ the Scripture and that you know the true meaning of the Scripture And whether such are fit to be Teachers of others Whether men or women that give such interpretations of Scripture and maintain such grosse errors Also the example of all the Churches of Christ is a ground why women ought not to speak in the Church But if any man seem to be contentious we have no such custome neither the churches of God But you object that several women did prophesie as Deborah and that one man had four Daughters and Virgins and they did prophesie And your Sons and Daughters shall prophesie Answer that those women and virgins who prophesied were extraordinarily called by an extraordinary gift which is now ceased and they did not take upon them to be Teachers in the Church but did prophesie of such things as were extraordinarily revealed or done in the Church for the prophesie in the Prophet Joel the same was accomplished in the Acts for saith the Apostle Peter These are not drunken as ye suppose But this is that which was spoken by the Prophet Joel I will poure out of my spirit upon all flesh and your Sons and your Daughters shall prophesie I would have any of you shew any one example where a woman took upon her to be a Teacher in the publick Church if any did take upon them so to do the Apostle teacheth that they did transgresse for it is to usurp authority over the man which is a sin and for a woman to take upon her to be a Teacher unto men is to exercise the authority of a man for we read of no women Teachers in the Church But you say that none are to exercise authority over others But are all in the Church equal and alike which bringeth me to a fifth particular wherein your practise is contrary to the command example and practise of Christ and his Apostles and therefore are not perfect The fifth is your not giving any reverence honor nor civil respect unto your Superiors and those that are in authority but are in your carriage tou Superiors more like Heathens then Christians Now it remaineth on my part to prove that Christ and his Apostles did both command and walk contrary to your practice herein Christ said Give unto Caesar the things that are Caesars and to God the things that are Gods Now the name Caesar was a word of Honour given unto all the Roman Emperours what ever their names were as we used to call our Supream Magistrate King Now Christ though a King himself did not say Give unto William or John the things that are his but give to Caesar He gave him the same title of Honour that the Romans gave him though a heathen Emperour Also Christ teaching his Disciples humilitie When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding sit not down in the highest room left a more honorable man then thee be bidden of him and he come and say Give this man place he being a more honourable person but when thou art bidden goe and sit down in the lowest room that when he that bad thee cometh he may say unto thee Friend goe up higher then thou shall have worship or honour in the presence of them that sit at meat by which Christ doth teach that some persons are more honourable then others and such are to be honoured of others But which of you having a servant plowing or feeding cattel will say unto him by and by go and sit down to meat and will not rather say unto him Make ready wherewith I may sup and gird thy self and serve me till I have eaten and drunk and afterward thou shalt eat and drink now though this be to teach us that we are all Gods servants and that when we have done all we are commanded to say we are unprofitable servants We have done that which was our dutie yet Christ useth this similitude because of the equitableness and justness of the same And as it is contrary to what Christ taught so is it contrary to the practice and doctrine of the Apostles for when Paul the Apostle of the Gentiles was brought before Agrippa to speak for himself Paul said I think my self happy King Agrippa because I shall answer for my self this day before thee mind The Apostle doth not onely say Agrippa but King Agrippa though he were a Heathen King And when he spake for himself Festus said with a loud voice Paul Thou art beside thy self much learning hath made thee mad Paul said I am not mad mind most
abroad if the reading of other books beside the Scriptures be not necessary unless you believe what some of your fellow Quakers have said that James Naylors books are of as Divine authority as the Scriptures because he is inspired by the same Spirit the Prophets and Apostles were when they writ the Scripture in which you are like your Fathers the Familists for such like Titles and Stiles I have read in their books written by H. N. and have heard some Familists call them his Gospels and that they 〈◊〉 of equal authority with the Gospels of Jesus 〈…〉 such blasphemous Familists and Quakers errors good Lord deliver us And the Lord open your eyes that you may see your errors that you have patched up your new Religion with the old errors of the Papists Arminians Anabaptists Antinomians and Familists and the Lord give you hearts to repent and do your first works A POST-SCRIPT Courteous Reader SInce the writing the foregoing answer to the Quakers I had some conference with a woman Quaker one of my ancient friends whose name I forbear to mention about the said answer after which the said friend did write me a letter the Contents whereof were as followeth That my written paper is higher then Vanitie because as she saith I confessed that I was not led by the infallible Spirit therefore it must needs be flesh for the Spirit of God is infallible and cannot erre which she desireth I would consider by the light of Christ that convinceth me of sin and that lest I be found fighting against God wherefore she saith in love to thy soul I warn thee Wherefore lest the said woman or any other Quakers should say that I have not answered all their Objections I resolved to answer the said letter though the things objected in the said letter are in part answered before yet for a more full answer I desire the said friend and all other Quakers whether friends or enemies to mind and consider what I have written in answer to the said letter Having received thy letter I was moved to write an answer to shew thee thy error in misunderstanding and misreporting my words for I neither writ nor said that I was not led by the infallible Spirit but said that I doe not pretend to an infallible spirit so as that I cannot erre For I say that all the faithfull are led by the Spirit of Christ which Spirit is infallible but I say they are not so led by that Spirit that they cannot erre which is the thing you maintain but I deny And yet I say that all the Prophets and Apostles were led by the Spirit infallibly guiding them in writing the Scriptures so as that they could not erre and that all the faithful are led by the Spirit so as that they erre not in the foundation or fundamentals of Religion but in other things I say they are subject to erre and the best men that ever lived that that we read of in Scripture have erred Christ Jesus who was God and Man excepted and this I shall plainly prove by Scripture the Prophet David a man after Gods own heart and a Penman of holy Scripture said Lord who knoweth the errors of his life clense me from my secret sins Psal 19. 12. and he having a mind to build the Temple and spake his mind to the Prophet Nathan the Prophet said to the King Go do all that is in thine heart for the Lord is with thee they being both Prophets were both mistaken they were not infallible for that night the Word of the Lord came to Nathan to the contrary that David should not build the Lords House but his Son Solomon but you Quakers will say this was before Christ his coming in the flesh and before the fulness of the Spirit was sent wherefore mind what is written in Scripture after that time There arose a dissention and a disputation among the brethren about Circumcision and Paul and Barnabas with others were sent to Jerusalem to the Apostles and Elders to have their advice and there were great disputations between them about it no one pretending by an infallible Spirit to determine the same were not Paul and Barnabas led by an infallible Spirit what need they then to have gone to Jerusalem to the rest of the Apostles and Elders surely if they had been infallible they made a needless journey and the rest of the Apostles and Elders made a needless disputation Also there arose a doubt amongst the Corinthians about believing husbands having unbelieving wives and believing wives having unbelieving husbands and other things concerning which they wrote unto the Apostle Paul to determine the matter Was there never a man among them that had an infallible spirit so as that he could not erre surely then they were no Quakers for then they needed not to have sent to the Apostle to have the matter determined and the Apostle in his answer concerning some thing saith I speak this by permission and not by command and concerning Virgins I have no commandment from the Lord yet I give my judgement I suppose saith the Apostle but had he been a Quaker and of your opinion would he not have said why or what need you write unto me to know the lawfulness of these things are you not all led by an infallible spirit that cannot erre But the Apostle was so humble and modest that he said I suppose he would not say I am sure or I know certainly I having an infallible spirit I cannot erre No the Apostle confesseth of himself and others we know but in part But you Quakers say you have such an infallible spirit that you cannot erre But God resisteth the proud and hath promised to teach the humble also the Apostle saith If any man build upon this foundation gold silver precious stones wood hay stubble where the Apostle plainly proveth that Christians do sometimes build upon the foundation wood hay and stubble that is some things of their carnal spirits for there is some carnality in those that are in Christ for saith the Apostle I speak unto you as unto carnal even as unto babes in Christ now there being flesh as well as spirit and sence and reason as well as faith in every christian is it any wonder that they sometimes erre And therefore honest Luther saith That there being flesh as well as spirit and sence as well as faith in the best men that therefore sometimes that will fall from their tongues and their pens that savours of the flesh as well as of the spirit and of sence as well as of faith and therefore saith he All Christians should be like the clean beasts that chew the Cud and devide the Hoofe that is they should meditate and examine what they hear and read by the Scriptures and devide the truth from the error as those men of Barea did they searched the Scriptures to see whether those things which they heard were according to
noble Festus though a Heathen Governour he gave him the title of Honour that of right did belong unto him Pauls being a Christian did not make him brutish and uncivil the Apostle knew that Christianitie did not destroy good manners and what the Apostle practised the same he taught unto others as you may read in his Epistle to the Romans Render therefore to all their dues Tribute to whom Tribute is due Custome to whom Custome Fear to whom Fear and Honour to whom Honour and in the next verse Owe no man any thing but to love one another implying that it is a debt that is owing to men in authoritie and whosoever doth deny the paying of these dues of Tribute to whom Tribute is due and Custome to whom Custome and Fear to whom Fear and Honour to whom Honour are debtors to them though they be Heathen Governours for there were no other among the Romans at that time Also the Apostle to Timothy exhorteth That first of all Supplications Prayers Intercessions and giving of thanks be made for all men For Kings and for all that are in Authority that we may live a quiet and peaceable life in all godlyness and honesty The Apostle was no enemy to Kings and other Magistrates but commanded to pray for them though they were Heathens and persecuted the Christians but you Quakers instead of praying for them or owning the name or titles of Kings or Nobles revile them and curse them calling them at the best but by their ordinary names Also the Apostle exhorteth Children to obey their Parents for this is right Honour thy father and mother which is the first Commandement with promise But you teach that the ten Commandements are abolished and is it honouring of Parents to call them William or Jone Also the Apostle to Timothie Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their masters worthy of all honour though heathens If any man teach otherwise as you Quakers doe and consent not to wholsome words even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the doctrine which is according to godlyness he is proud knowing nothing but doting about questions and strifes of words whereof cometh envie strife railings evil surmisings Now do you think that those servants who call them onely by their names and deny that title of Masters as some do do count them worthy of all honour And the Apostle exhorteth That the Elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour especially they that labour in the Word and Doctrine but you deny that any should either rule in the Church or have any honour Also the Apostle Peter exhorteth to submit your selves to every ordinance of man for the Lords sake whether it be to the King as Supream or unto Governours and fear God honour the King Surely the Apostle was no Quaker for the Apostle giveth the title of King to the Supream Magistrate and would have him and all other Governours to be honoured but you will give no honour nor titles of honor to any man Also the same Apostle exhorteth Wives to be subject to their own Husbands and bringeth the example of Sarah for their imitation Even as Sarah obeyed Abraham calling him Lord. Whose Daughters or Children ye are as long as ye do well We never read that Sarah called her Husband Abraham or that ever she left her Husband and Family to go up and down from one place to another place to teach as some of you women Quakers do contrary to the Apostles command Keepers at home obedient to their own Husbands that the word of God be not Blasphemed This by the way Also the Apostle John directeth his second Epistle Unto the elect Lady and her Children And now I beseech thee Lady You Quakers never learned of the Apostle to call a Lady Gammer nor persons of a noble descent Gaffer and Edward as some of you Quakers have done Also the Keepers of the Prison fell down before Paul and Silas and said Sirs VVhat must I do to be saved Now the word Sirs is a Title of Honour as much as to say in our Language Lords and if it had been a sin in them to give them that Title surely the Apostles would have reproved them for it as they did those that would have worshipped them with divine worship saying VVe also are men of like passions with you VVhy do ye these things Now by all these examples of Christ and his Apostles it appears that there is and ought to be honour and reverence given to Superiors But you are so brutish and ignorant that you cannot distinguish between divine honour and civil honour forgetting that Scripture But you object that the Apostle saith that in Christ Jesus ye are all one There is neither bond nor free male nor 〈◊〉 and thou answer that a Christian is to be considered two ways First as he is in Christ that is in the matter of salvation there is no difference nor respect of persons but all are equal and alike Secondly Christians are to be considered as they are Members of a Common-wealth or of a Family and so there is a great difference and inequality of persons and that I would have you mind For if the woman should be the man if the Subject should be the Magistrate if the Son should be the Father if the Servant should be the Master would not these things bring a confusion of all states and of all things for it is impossible that mankind should be governed without these differences of persons states and degrees of men both in the Church and Common-wealth which persons ought of right to have the honour and respect due to them by all persons Christians as well as others unlesse you would have Christians more brutish then Heathens and in that you do deny the same you shew your selves so to be and therefore are not perfect and so I come to a sixth particular in which you walk contrary to the command and example of Christ and his Apostles The sixth perticular is your judging and condemning all persons that are not of your judgement and opinion That it is your practise so to do is apparently known to all that have read your Books ore that have had any society or conference with you Jona Dell in his Voyce from the Temple saith that all that are of the Baptist opinion are in the state of Reprobation And Benjamin Wallis one of your Teachers in Branford on a Tuesday being Market day and Lecture day said in the open street that they were all damned that followed the teaching of the Priests also he said in Cheeswick in an open field in the presence of many that all that followed the Teachers Doctrine that taught in the Steeple houses were all damned Now that this is contrary to the Doctrine of Christ and his Apostles is plain by these Scriptures Judge not