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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
authority_n	apostle_n	church_n	reason_n	2,658	5	5.0047	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A04542	A treatise of the ministery of the Church of England Wherein is handled this question, whether it be to be separated from, or joyned vnto. Which is discussed in two letters, the one written for it, the other against it. Wherevnto is annexed, after the preface, A brief declaration of the ordinary officers of the Church of Christ. And, a few positions. Also in the end of the treatise, some notes touching the Lordes prayer. Seuen questions. A table of some principal thinges conteyned in this treatise.	Johnson, Francis, 1562-1618.; Hildersam, Arthur, 1563-1632. aut	1595 (1595)	STC 14663.5; ESTC S117234	146,027	152

base a conceit of others who advise them better Secondly for yourself well may you think as we all ought that it is no disgrace vnto vs that our knowledg is imperfect and our judgment weak seing the Apostle saith even off himself as of all others now we know but in part and now we see through a glasse darkely Yet also would I desier Mr. H. remember and you to note it for your comfort that God so disposeth for his glory as euen the private members of the true Church yea women are found walking in the truth as we have receyved a commaundement from the Father when many deceyvers though men and in publick office are abroad in the world and false Church which confesse not in truth and in deed Iesus Christ come in the flesh that onely Prophett Priest and king whom God hath giuen to his Church forever Thirdly towching them whom God vsed as his instruments to draw you out off the bypa●●s of these assemblyes into the way of truth wherein you now walk as you have iust cause to blesse God for them so I pray you also regard not so much who they be as what they say And in any case take heed that you never have the faith of our glorious Lord Iesus Christ in respect of persons neyther of Princes nor prelates nor any other though otherwise learned rich or famous any maner way Neyther let the heat of the adversaryes persecution nor the coldnes of the tyme servers swallowing vp all the abominations yet abiding among them nor the love of this present world nor the colourable perswasion of any though never so dare vnto you neyther any other thing whatsoever ensnare you to be wrapped in like errour with them but remember alway as is here well noted vnto you that the written word of God onely is to be the rule of our Life and Religion Lastly concerning Mr. H. who wrote this letter vnto you as you shall do well to take it that he erreth of ignorance and not of malice etc. as he desireth to be taken so of him I would desier for the taking away of this vayle from his eyes that he do heedfully look into the perfitt law of liberty not onely the better to see the filthynes of theyr corruptions that he may avoyd them but to behold also what orders and offices Christ Iesus hath sett in his Church to keep and observ them To which end he shall do well himself to Consider that which here he hath sett down vnto you concerning the writtē word of God According to which if he shall examine the particulars of theyr Church-constitution of which more God willing hereafter I hope he will no more say in this case that as of syncerity as of God in the sight of God so writeth he of these things but will rather acknowledg that whosoever go about to bring colour out of the Scriptures for them they do therein no other but make marchandize of the word of God And therefore will eyther stay his tal●● and lay his hand on his mouth or if he speak will speak to his own soule ād say Wilt thou plead Antichrists cause or wilt thou save him If he be of Christ let him plead for himself against them that by the word of theyr testimony destroy his ordināces Thus much to the entrance of this letter The rest of it is spent in laboring to disprove the writing which it seemeth you gaue him in defence of your separation from the ministery of these assemblyes Which after he hath well propounded in forme of reasoning he then bringeth some show of answer therevnto and of defence of theyr Ministery Wherein although I might in few lynes shortly have noted the subtilty and vnsoundnes of his answers yet have I chosen rather to write somewhat largely both for your sake and his own and for others also into whose hands these writings may co●● And this haue I thought to be the more needfull because he doth here so earnestly both protest the syncerity of his affection and make promise that nothing shalbe brought to perswade you but the word of God Now of the syncerity of his affection I make no doubt but do vertly thinck that he writeth and walketh as he is perswaded Onely where he promiseth and pretendeth to bring the word of God for the perswasion of your soule and performeth it not in deed and yet hath such obiections and pretence off Scripture and reason as greater in this case I thinck neyther have ben neyther can well be brought there●ore have I thought it best for better clearing of the truth to prosecute his annswers from poynt to poyut And although it wil be the more tedious yet to take this course therein first to sett down in his own words his aunswers to the reason you gaue him and then to examine and take them away by the light of the Scriptures For your self it shalbe your part as he desireth you to lay apart all sinister affection and with meeknes to receyv the word of truth grafted in you and able to save your soule Consider therefore well what is said and the Lord give you vnderstanding in all things Now to proceed it followeth in his letter to you thus Mr. H. his letter Section 2. The summe of the vvhole vvriting you gaue me is a reason to prove the lavvfulnes of your separation from our assemblyes because vve have no such minissters as you may lavvfully ioyne vvhithall and for plainenes it may fitly be cōcluded in this forme Whosoever he be that dealeth with the holy things of God and worketh vpon the Consciences of men by vertue of an Antichristian power office and calling him the people of God ought not to receyv or ioyne themselves vnto 2 Thes. 2. 4 10. But all the ministers that stand ouer the Church assemblyes in England deale with the holy things of God and work vpon mens consciences by vertue of an Antichristian power office calling Therefore the people of God ought not to receyv them or ioyne themselves vnto them The first part of this reason as I am not vnvvilling to yeeld vnto so do I affirme that the vvords of the Apostle vvritten 2. Thes. 2. 4. 10. are for the proof thereof vv●ested and perverted from the right sence For the Apostle there describeth Antichrist nor by his unlavvfull on●vvard calling or office that he should exercise in the Church but first by the false doctrine he should teach as appeareth plainely by the 10 and 11 verses and secondly by the authority he should vsurpe to give lavves vnto mens consciences and to rule in the harts of men as God as you may see in the 4. verse VVhich tvvo ma●ks of Antichrist as they may evidently be discerned in the papacy so admitt all the outvvard calling and offices in the Church of England exercised vvere faulty and vnvvarrantable by the vvord yet you in your ovvn Conscience knovv that these marks

man for an heathen or publicane though he be knovven to have grievously sinned Mat. 18 till such tyme as by despising all lavvf●ll meanes that can be vsed for reclayming him he shall be found to sinne of obstinacy then must it needs be a sinne for any private members such as you are to account an vvhole Church and so many famous assemblyes to be all as heathens and publicanes and Antichrists before theyr sinne hath ben manifested vnto them and they proceeded against according to the rule of Christ. Novv this hath not ben done vnto vs for many there are of the ministers in England that are not yet in theyr iudgement persvvaded of the discipline and many that do yeeld vnto it in iudgment and desier hartily the establishment of it ād the removall of all corruptiōs cānot yet see hovv they may vvith a good conscience forsake the callings and roomes they occupy for the vvant of the discipline If these sinne they sinne but of ignorance and therefore may not for this sinne be accounted for heathens and publicanes But admitt our sinne had ben manifested vnto vs by vvhom have vve ben ensured for it A private member may not be cast out till he have despised the censure of the Church though he have despised the admonition and counsell of sundry private Christians Then suerly an vvhole nation may not be cast out of the Church though it have not hearkned to the reproof of many private Christians till it shalbe found to have despised the censure of other more famous Churches professing the Gospell And vvhat such Church is there in the vvorld that ●ath censured vs Nay it is most evident that all those Churches in Christendome that have in most syncerity receyved and mainteyned the doctrine and discipline of Christ have alvvayes accounted our Church for a sister and given vnto her the right hand of fellovvship I deny not but a private Christian may ●●islike the corruptions that are allovved and practised by an vvhole Church he may refuse to subscribe or yeeld his consent vnto them he may by prayer and all other good meanes seek the reformation of them but that any one private Christian or some fevv severall assemblyes vvhereyn also there are some learned men may account all the Churches ●●at are in an vvhole nation to be either as heathens that is such as are destitu●e of the vvord and Sacraments and service of God or as publicanes that is such as vvith vvhom they may not lavvfully commanicate and ioyne in the said service of God that do I vtterly deny And vvhereas the chief thing vvhereof you boast your selves against vs is that you have Christs discipline practised among you vvhich vve vvant I affirme and date bynd my self to prove it that there is nothing practised amongst vs so contrary to the discipline as there is amongst you For proof vvhereof to omitt sundry of your practises and the extream confusion that is to be seen in your best reformed assemblyes let this suffice that hath ben already mentioned S. Peter calleth those Ievves that had crucified Christ breth●en Act. 2. 29. and 3. 17. And Paul accounteth the Galathians a true Church vvhen the errours that they vvere fallen into vvere matters fundamentall Gal. 1. 2. and 5. 2. And this account did these tvvo holy Apostles make of them because they had not ben yet convinced and reiected by the iudgment of the Church And vvhy should you or any of your company vvho for authority you knovv are not to be compared vvith those holy Apostles disdayne to call vs brethren and to account vs a Church till such tyme as vve have ben convinced of error and reiected by the iudgment of other Churches VVhen there grevv controversy in the Church of Antiochia the brethren thought it not fitt to proceed in iudgment against them of the circumcision though theyr errors vvere far greater then any are in our Church and though the belevers there vvere more in number and of greater graces then ever those vvere of your company Act. 11. 21. 26. and 15. 23. and so might vvith more cōsent and authority have ended the matter at home vvithout seeking further to other Churches yea though they had Paul and Barnabas men better able to decide and determine the matter then ever you had any in your assemblyes yet vvould they not I say proceed till they had made other Churches and na●ely that famous Church of Ierusalem acquainted vvith the matter and required theyr advise and authority to decide and overrule it Act. 15. 2. 4. And might it not asvvell have beseemed those of your company that first entended a separation from our Church a matter of so great vvaight and consequence to have sought the advise of the Churches of Geneva and Fraunce and Germany and Helvetia and Scotland in the matter and to have stayed theyr separation till such tyme as those Churches had proceeded against vs according to the rule of Christs discipline May I not vvell say as the Apostle doth to the Corinthians 1 Cor. 14. 36. Came the vvord of God our from you eyther came it vnto you onely And this I hope may be sufficient to shovv hovv vntrue that is vvhich is affirmed in the first part of the reason vsed in your vvriting viz Whosoever worketh vpon the consriences of men by vertue of an Antichristian office ād calling he is an Antichristiā Minister whatsoever truth he bringeth with him Aunswer to Section 5. IN this third exception according to theyr vsuall maner Mr H. taketh for graunted that which he should prove to witt that theyr ecclesiasticall assemblyes be the Churches of Christ sett in his order and constitution Which thing we deny And till they prove it themselves may see they can not thus reason from this Scripture of Mat. 18. as here he doth For although from thence it may be gathered that the Churches of Christ are not for corruptions arising in them to be forsaken but first theyr redresse is by all good meanes to be sought yet it followeth not therevpō that the Synagogues of Antichrist are in like maner to be proceeded withall and not forthwith to be avoyded This I say followeth not of the other any more then if one should reason thus A brother being knowen to have sinned is not to be accounted as an heathen or publicane till being duly proceded with he have contemned the voyce of the Church Therefore also one that is an heathen or publicane yet notwithstanding is not so to be accounted till he have ben likewise admonished and proceded withall As there is no consequence in this so neyther is there in the other The same Scripture which saith Do ye not iudge them that are vvithin saith it not also What have I to do to judge them that are vvithout Now then as we are to carry our selves after one maner towards particular men that are within and after another towards them that are without

able to bring warrant for them out of the Law of God and therefore got what strength they could from the Law of Man The truth then is that not at the beginning of her Majestyes raigne but hundreds of yeares before her Majesty was borne the Prelates had this power of ordination in theyr hands as much as now they have For who knoweth not that both their offices and callings and this their authority of ordination is part of the apostasy of the Man of sinne even part of those abominatiōs wherewith the golden cup of the whore of Babylon is full and wherewith she hath long syn●e made drunken the nations of the earth and this of England among the rest Many of which abominations we confesse have ben swept out of this Land both in the tyme of King Henry the eyght and of King Edward the sixt ād of Elizabeth our dread Soveraigne For which we prayse God Yet notwithstāding to speak as the truth is many also of those abominatiōs of Babylō are remayning in the Lād from which it was never purged ūto this day Of which sort are the offices callings administration and maintenance both of the Prelacy and other clergy yet retayned in the Land from the hyest Prelate to the lowest Priest together with theyr book worship canons compulsion and confusion of all sorts of people whatsoever to be members of theyr Church and such like which were long to relate in particular So then if Mr H. would have simply and plainely showed vnto vs the originall of this power and authority in the Prelates he should have led vs not to the beginning of her Maiestyes raigne as if it had then begun but to the apostasy of the man of sinne from whence it first sprang and spred abroad into this and other Nations of the earth many ages before her Highnes raigne or birth Neyther hath it hitherto ben abolished out of this land as it ought but being found here at the beginning of her Maiestyes raigne was left remayning still ād is not suppressed but retayned evē vnto this day Wherevpō is come to passe that the Prelates ād Priests retayning still theyr calling and authority have by the iust iudgment of God showed themselves to be nothing behind the Cananites Hivites Iebusites and other inhabitants of the Nations whom God commaunded Israel to drive out before them ād they notwithstanding let them still remayne among them that is they are become pricks in our eyes and thornes in our sides vexing all such as feare God in the Land and it is to be feared if Gods mercy be not the greater will be a snare and destruction to the Land as already they are to the soules and consciences of the people therein The Lord stir vp the royall heart of her Maiesty that she may discerne theyr iniquity and abolish theyr offices and callings out of the Land and make them desolate and naked eating theyr flesh even theyr revennewes and poffessions by converting them to her own civill vses and the weale publik of the Land Thesame God the King of Kings work it also in the hearts of the other Princes and Magistrates of the world that they may do likewise within theyr Dominions that so the most wicked Hierarchy and religion of Antichrist may be vtterly consumed from of the earth and the Gospell of Iesus Christ may have free passage ād be glorifyed among all nations to the ends of the world as the Scripture hath said shall come to passe Rev. 17. 16. and 18. 20. 21. and 14. 6. 7. 8. and 21. 15. 24. 26. with 2 Thes. 2. 8. and 3. 1. Mat. 24. 14. 3 Thirdly where Mr H. saith he knew out of the word of God that every true Church of GOD hath the power and authority to ordeyne Ministers ād that the Prelates by the Lavv of God are not capable of it and yet that he sought and took ordination of the Prelates this is so far from being any defence vnto him in this case as it doth rather manifest his sinne to be the greater and far more grievous inasmuch as hereby it seemeth he took ordination of the Prelates against the knowledg which he had out of the word of God to the contrary 4. Fourthly let it be observed that here he saith the Parliament offended in committing the povver and authority of ordination to the Prelates that by the Law of God are not capable of it and yet before he affirmed that theyr Law agreeth with the Law of GOD as towching the substance of a true calling to the Ministery of which he made right ordination to be a part Thus he both contradicteth himself and agayn yeeldeth the cause For if they offended against the Law of God in committing this power to the Prelates as he directly affirmeth and there is no other Ministery had and all●●ed in the Land but from the Prelates as there is not hence it must needs follow that theyr calling and Ministery is vnlawfull and neyther to be receyved nor joyned vnto 5. Fiftly where he calleth the ordination taken from the Prelates the Churches ordination receyved at their hands and yet before sayd the Church hath power to ordeyne but the Prelates by the Law of God are not capable of it here agayne he forgetteth and contradicteth himself 6. Finally it may be observed that in the shutting vp of this reason he speaketh of the Princes power and authority committed to men that by the Law of God are not capable of it when as before in the former part of the reason he had spoken of the Churches power and authority committed to such as by the Law of God are not capable of it Thus he keepeth not to the poynt in question but speaking of ordination of Ministers one while he caryeth vs to the Churches power and authority committed to men not capable thereof another while to the Princes power so likewise committed As if the power and authority of Princes and of the Church were all one ād not distinct in the ordinance and appoyntment of God or as if whatsoever may be done in the one were also to be admitted in the other What straunge consequences would follow herevpon let himself consider And hitherto of the insufficiency of his first reason Now let vs see if there be any more wayght in his second which is as followeth SEcondly sayth M r H. seyng it is not to be refused if a man entring into the Ministery might have the approbation of all and every one of the Ministers of the Gospell in the land it seemeth vnto me the approbation of that Bishop that is also a Minister and preacher of the Gospell cannot be deemed to be meerly vnlavvfull 1. BVt what if the Bishops and Ministers he speaketh of be not the Bishops and Ministers of Christ but of Antichrist not in a true but in a false Ministery not according to Christs Gospell but Antichrists apostasy not servants of Iesus Christ the onely LOrd

Antichrist and they also come into theyr Ministery by them it cānot be avoyded but theyr Ministery by vertue whereof they deale with the holy things of God and work vpon mens consciences is Antichristian ād therefore not to be receyved or ioyned vnto Which is the thing that was to be proved What is it then that he saith herevnto Doth he deny that the Prelates be limmes of Antichrist and prove the contrary by the Scripture No in deed but he leaveth them as he found them the limmes of Antichrist and seemeth so astonyed partly at the truth on the one hand partly with the vnlawfulnes of theyr office on the other as notwithstanding they are thus deeply charged yet he denyes not the charge but rather yeelds vnto it saying that whatsoever is vnlawfull in theyr callings he will not go about to mainteyne Yea that by Law of God they are not capable of that which is committed vnto them by the Parliament Where besides that he leaveth them without defence against so waighty an accusation he doth himself also charge them with breach of Gods Law and vnlawfulnes in theyr callings and so yeelds vs the cause The Prelates and his fellow Priests will not thank him for this And sure if any way it could have ben done now was it altogether needfull to have convinced by evidence of Scripture both that the Prelates are not the limmes of Antichrist and that theyr offices and callings are lawfull But the truth is mighty and will prevayle against all that withstand it ●●ll they will they Well then leaving thus the Prelates to be limmes of Antichrist what saith he to the other which is that the Ministers of the land come into theyr Ministery by the Prelates Doth he deny this No but graunteth it also as needs he must For such is theyr constitution and practise Besides that if any standing Ministers of these assemblyes should enter otherwise they could not but be intruders and hypocrites Intruders because they should thrust themselves into theyr Ministery eyther by no calling or by other then is receyved and allowed in theyr Church Hypocrites because ministring in and to these assemblyes they should seem vnto men to do it by vertue of such calling as is appoynted by Law of theyr Church when in deed it were otherwise It cannot be denyed then but they do and must come in by the Prelates who are limmes of Antichrist Now what followeth herevpon let themselves and all that partake with them well consider and repent whiles it is called To day But saith Mr H. nothing in this poynt at all Yes though he leave the Prelates and other Priests to shift for themselves yet for himself he takes a litle paynes saying he will simply ād playnely set down what moved him to seek a calling from the Prelates and what perswadeth him to think the calling he receyved from them is not vvicked and vnlavvfull Well but what if the other Ministers of the Land who take themselves to have as a good a calling as he yet were not moved neyther are perswaded therevnto by these reasons wherevpon he rest●th what now will he and what must we account of theyr Ministery by this reckoning Agayn what if the reasons he alledgeth for himself be not of waight in this case so to move and perswade eyther him or any other How then will he have vs esteem of his calling and Ministery Let vs therefore examine his reasons But first mark that he saith he sought a calling from the Prelates and receyved it He was not thē sought spyed out and called by a Church as is the ordinance of Christ but himself he saith sought to be called by the Prelates and receyved his calling from them Which maner of calling seing it is such as God never ordeined it therefore neither might be receyved of him neyther may be ioyned vnto by any other But let vs see what moved him herevnto FIrst saith Mr H. being persvvaded in my conscience that the Lord had a true Church in this Realme even at the beginning of her Maiestyes raigne vvhich being assembled out of all parts of the Land in Parliament did commit this authority to ordeyne Ministers vnto the Bishops and knovving out of the vvord of GOD that every true Church hath this povver and authority to ordeyne Ministers I considered vvith my self that though the Church offended in committing this povver vnto them that by the Lavv of God vvere not capable of it yet I might vvithout sinne seek and take the Churches ordination at theyr hands as I may reverence and take the benefit of the Princes povver ād authority vvhich is of God though it be committed vnto and exercised by men that by the Lavv of God are not capable of it THis is Mr H. his first and chief reason Wherein as also in the rest following let this be observed generally that although in the beginning of his letter he promised nothing should be brought to perswade but the word of GOd yet now in stead thereof he setteth before vs the perswasions of his conscience Which is a thing very vsuall among them as if they were eyther divine oracles or as foroible to perswade as they Yea here he seemeth to prefer his perswasions before Gods oracles Which if he had not done I would not thus have noted it For confessing on the one hand that he knoweth out of the word of God that every true Church hath this power and authority to ordeyne Ministers and consequently that it is Gods ordinance to have it in and from a true Church as he hath appoynted yet on the other hand he professeth that the Parliament committing this power vnto such as by the Law of God are not capable of it to wit to the Prelates and so offending therein he notwithstanding vpon his perswasion sought and took ordination from the Prelates hands Now what was this els but to regard his own perswasion more then the word of God Specially when he ioyneth withall that he thought he might so do without sinne Sure this is straunge divinity The Scripture teacheth that we may not be partakers of other mens sinnes And that the transgression of Gods Law is sinne He notwithstanding thought that he might partake with others in the breach of Gods ordinance and yet not sinne I hope he is otherwise mynded synce and so will be every day more and more In the meane tyme it is cleare that though these very things which he would seem to rest vpon were all graunted him yet they make altogether agaynst him and so this first reason of his is found in this case to be of no waight Yet before we proceed to the rest it will not be amisse for more evidence of the truth more fully to consider the particulars here set down 1 And first where he sayth he is perswaded the Lord had a true Church in this Realme at the beginning of her Majestyes raigne c. it would be knowen