the losse of those things wherein the very life and being of a visible Church consisteth either to remove the corruptions that remaine amongst us or to establish those Church orders which wee want for although we doubt not but the whole truth of Christs doctrine may be lawfully taught though all the Magistrates in the world gaine-say it and practised also so farre forth by every Christian as the bounds of his particular calling permits and that it is the Magistrates principall honour in the sight of God and man to yeeld and submit himselfe to the instructions reproofes and censures of the Church so far forth as they are agreeable to the Word of God who is Lord of Lords and King of Kings Yet cannot we not see good reason to perswade us that the Church ought or may either pull downe corrupt Church government or erect the right discipline not onely without but contrary to the likeing of Christian Magistrates Thus much we finde in the Word of God Godly Princes First That in those publicke reformations of the Church which the word commendeth the Christian and godly Princes were ever the principall actors Secondly That for the want of publicke Reformation the Magistrate is every where blamed and no where the Church for ought we can find oft are the Priests and people blamed for erecting and practising Idolatry but never for that they plucked it not downe when their Princes had set them up Neither can wee finde whether ever the Church under a Christian Magistrate was by any Prophet either commanded to deale otherwise then by perswasion in publike Reformation when the Magistrate neglected it or reproved for the contrarie To that which they were wont to say then the Apostles were much to blame who in erecting the Church government never waited for nor sought the Magistrates leave and good likeing Wee answer that though without the Magistrates leave they did it Yet not contrarie to his liking or when he opposed his authoritie directly and inhibited it the never erected the discipline when there was so direct an opposition made against it by the civill Magistantes Secondly If it could bee proved that the Apostles did so then yet would it not follow that we also may doe so now for neither was the Heathen Magistrate altogether so much to bee respected by the Church as the Christian Magistrate is neither have our Ministers and people now so full and absolute a power to pull downe and set up orders in the Church as the Apostles those wise Master builders had Lastly though this were all proved Fisthly though we did voluntarily continue in those knowne wants corruptions having power to redresse them yet might we be the true Church notwithstanding that our Assemblies are throughly convinced in these points and that we having power to reforme that which is amisse doe yet voluntarily continue in those wants and corruptions yet might we be the true Churches of Christ notwithstanding for as true faith in Christ not morall obedience is that which giveth life and being to every true member of the Church so the profession of true faith in Christ rather than obedience is that which giveth the life and being to a visible Assembly So wee reade that many upon their profession of faith were baptized and incorporated into the Church a Acts 8.12 13 16 31 32. So that which made the Romuns a true Church in the judgment of Paul was that their faith was published throughout the world b Rom. 1.8 And generally that which made the Gentiles to whom hee preached a true Church was that they gave obedience of faith neither doe wee see what difference they will make betwixt the covenant of workes and the covenant of grace c Rom. 1.5 if they hold obedience to the Commandements of God necessary to the life and first being of a true Christian Church And as a wife ceaseth not to be a wife though in many things shee cease to be wilfully disobedient to her husband unlesse she sin either by desertion or whoredom and be divorced So neither the Church ceaseth to be the Church and Spouse of Christ till she be both sufficiently convinced of Atheisme or Idolatry and be divorced also the Lord taking from her His Word and Sacraments and all other his spirituall Jewells and Ornaments In the third Chapter of Ieremy both Israel and Iudah were charged with Idolatry and yet must we needs confesse that they still continued the true Church of God unlesse wee will say there was at that time no true visible Church in the world which was most absurd to affirme So the Corinthians being in the first Epistle convinced of the sinne of Idolatry d 1 Cor. 10.14 and other sinnes e 2 Cor. 6.14 12 21 13 2 the Church remaining in them as appeareth in the second Epistle f 2 Cor. 1.1 did yet continue to be the true Church of God notwithstanding and so are called in the same Epistle That which Henry Barrow in the 94. page of their refutation excuseth this Church by viz. that it was orderly gathered and established may as well bee alleadged for our Assemblies as for the Church of Cor. as we hope may appeare by that which hath been above said in our Answer to the first Objection they make against the whole body of our Church He that was once a brother though he persist in his sinnes he hath beene convinced of not by one brother only but by two or three yea though he commit some presumptuous sinnes ceaseth not to bee a brother notwithstanding Matth. 18.15 16. how much lesse shall a Church cease to be a true Church b Psalme 19. because it hath been convinced of some grosse corruptions by one or some few The high places were continued in Israel and Iudab and that under the Reigne of sundry good Kings notwithstanding the reproofe of many Prophets Yet were they of Israel and Iudah accounted the Church still neither did the Prophets cease to communicate with them c 2 Kings 1.3 15.3 Neither would those that remained in Babylon after the Proclamation of Cyrus which was also the Commandement of God d 2 Chro. 36.22 Ezra 2.2 to returne thrust out of the account of the Church as appeareth by the communion of them with the Church of Ierusalem and the bookes of Ezra and Nehemiah notwithstanding partly in feare of the danger partly in a love of the commoditie which they setled themselves in during the captivitie they did not build the Temple in person but only sent mony for the building Lastly the Apostle setteth downe a Rule which is directly contrary to this fourth Article of their first exception in these words Let us therefore as many as are perfect bee thus mind d and if in any thing ye be otherwise mind d Philip. 3.15 God shall reveale the same unto you Neverthelesse Whereto we have already attained let us walke by the
Testament used by Christ and the Apostles from which the same may be very probably gathered to be lawfull and fit as when the Ministers maintenance is compared to the wages and hire of a servant (c) Luke 10.17 2 Tim. 5.18 and when it is compared to the souldiers pay (d) 1 Cor. 9.7 which both things are certaine and set Thirdly it standeth with sound reason that the Ministers maintenance should be certaine For first seeing it is already proved that a sufficient maintenance must necessarily be given to the Minister of the people how can it be unlawfull either for the people by their owne promise or for the Magistrate by law to binde them unto that which they should voluntarily do of themselves Secondly by this kinde of maintenance sundry of the peoples infirmities as their grudging to give ought when it is in their power to give or not to give their base estimation likewise of the Minister and looking for civill dutie at his hand and many other such like are best prevented Yea we deny that ever any Church was so well informed wherein the most part of the people had not need to have such infirmities restrained in them by the wisedom and authority of the Christian Magistrate Touching the places of Scripture (e) 1 Thess 2.5 1 Tim. 6.8 Iude 11.13 in this point alleadged by them we give this answer First that they condemne onely the covetousnesse of men and not the set maintenance of Ministers which may be receaved without covetousnesse Secondly if they will enforce these places against set payments to the Minister they may as well enforce them against all set payments to the Prince to the servant to the labourer or any other Thirdly if not then seeing the Apostles rule (a) Tim. 5.8 doth concern even the Ministers as well as others why should it be thought covetousnesse in him to provide a certaine and set maintenance for himselfe and his family more then the same care is in any other Christian To the place Mat. 10. we say that the Commandment which our Saviour Christ gave there to his disciples was temporary and concerned that especiall voyage onely wherein for their incouragement to the Ministry our Saviour assureth them that they should not need to feare the want of maintenance for he would supply that extraordinarily as it were by his especiall providence in inclining the hearts of men to maintaine them And that this is so may appeare by these reasons Verse 7.8 First if it be a perpetuall rule we may thence gather 1. that the Minister ought now to have no abiding place neither two coates two paire of shooes nor a staffe neither that they may possesse any thing of their owne Secondly they then received their gifts of preaching and working of miracles freely without cost and therefore were bound from covenanting for stipend to dispence those gifts receaving no more then for their present necessitie of food and raiment which cannot be so said of those whose bringing up in learning is costly and whose study is painfull Thirdly by the commandement which our Saviour Christ giveth (b) Luke 22.35 36. 1 Cor. 96 7. Matth. 20. for provision for themselves And that which Paul challengeth it is evident that the restraint given Mat. 10. was but temporarie yea ad mit it might be proved from hence that no set maintenance were given to the Ministers during the Apostles time which cannot be yet followeth not that there should be none Now seeing that the Church was then without those nourishing fathers which the Lord promised by the Prophet (c) Esay 49 23 â—â— without whose authoritie wee see not how that order for forced maintenance could be taken Neither doubt we to acknowledge even this for a speciall fruit of that blessing promised to come to the Church by Christian Magistrates whereas they said that whatsoever is given to the maintenance of Gods Service should be free and voluntarie and alleadge for that these places Exodus 15.2 2 Cor. 8.12 2 Cor. 9.5 7. we answer That the bond of the peoples promise and Magistrates Law is no hinderance to the freedom and voluntarines seeing the service and obedience of David was free and voluntary Notwithstanding the vow and oath hee bound himselfe with Psal 119.106 Nâ—bem 10.38 So was that also which is mentioned in Nehemiah for if Covenanting should take away the voluntarinesse of the act then should it not bee lawfull to covenant with servants and labourers or any other Yea the Lord our God doth binde Himselfe by Covenant to give that reward to the faith and obedience of his servants which yet he giveth most freely and voluntarilie The third reason they alleadge against our maintenance Thirdly Although we bee maintained by Tythes Is this That we are maintained by Iewish tythes and concerning which they have these words In the 60. page of their discoverie It is evident who are thus maintained by those Iewish Tythes and offerings are not the ministers of Christ and a little after these Priests and people still retaine the Leviticall decimations in the same forme to the same ends And page 16. I could never see any difference betweene the Iewes and them save that the Swine-heards tythe-Pïgges and Geese c. To all which wee thus answer First It is evident that the tythes are not held amongst us by vertue of the Leviticall Law but only by the positive Law of our Land for proofe whereof these reasons following may be sufficient First If this kinde of maintenance were given to the Minister for conscience and obedience to that Law why should not the first fruits also offerings and diverse other things which by a plaine commandement were due to the Leviticall Priest-hood bee given us as well as tythes Secondly The manner of tything which in diverse parts of our Land is diversly used and which through custome also is many wayes altered proveth that paying of tythes amongst us is not according to the Leviticall Law nor in religeous obedience thereunto Thirdly The Law by consent of the states in the Parliament having alenated the tythes in many places from the Minister unto the Prince and other men doth thereby declare that it appointeth not the paying of the tythes by vertue of the Law of God Fourthly Sundry of our Ministers are and that even in the judgement of our whole Church lawfully by other meanes maintained then by tythes which is also a plaine demonstration that both the Leuiticall Law is not held to be in force with us and if it were wee might yet have some true Ministers in our Land notwithstanding Secondly As the Prince without any shew of Jewish superstition may require of the Ministers first fruits and tenths and of all the rest of the subjects fifteenes and subsidies for the maintenance of the wars and other civill purposes so doubt we not but he may as well especially by act of Parliament which is also the act
1 Cor. 2.2 Eph. s 2.19 22. and therefore when the Apostle saith that the Church is built upon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles his meaning is not to call every thing contained in their writings the foundation of the Church But that this foundation wee have spoken of is there to be found and hath witnesses from thence and that all the writings and doctrines of the Apostles and Prophets doe bend unto stay and rest upon this one truth as the walls in the building upon the chiefe corner stone Lastly Arg. 4. All reformed Churches give the Testimony to us All the knowne Churches in the world acknowledge our Church for their Sister and give unto us the right hand of fellow-ship This Henry Barrow and Iohn Greene-wood denie in their 14. page of their refutation but they name not any one Church that maketh question of us whether wee were the true Church or no never yet was there any reformed Church made that question They are well acquainted with our Church by the report of them that have travelled from bence and sundry other wayes with our doctrine and Lyturgie our wants and corruptions every one Neither doe they only forbeare to shew their dislike to us or are content to preserve society with us which happily through humane infirmitie they might doe upon sinister respects though they approved not of us in judgment but they doe also hold and teach that what people soever hath so much as we is the true Church though the wants and corruptions are as great as ours are Now when we alledge for our selves the testimonies of the Churches Which strongly argueth that we are the true Church we doe not thereby as these men fondly conclude in the 14. page of their refutation make the word of men the foundation of our Church Nor doe we use these as our only and chiefe defence whereby we seeke to approve our selves either unto the Lord or to the Consciences of his people but such an argument wee take this to bee as in his due place hath much force in it and as God Himselfe hath sanctified for a principall help in deciding of controversies in this kinde the Apostles use to alleadge it as a matter of comfort to them whom they write unto that the Churches of Christ salute them (a) Rom. 16.16 1 Pet. 5 13. that they were famous and had the good report of the Churches (b) Rom. 16.19 2 Cor. 8 18 19 23.24 Galah 1.2 Saint Paul though hee received not his calling either from men or by men c nor was any whit inferior to the chiefe Apostles (d) 2 Cor. 12.11 yet doth he alleadge for the credit of his ministery that the chiefest Apostles approved him and gave to him the right hand of fellowship (e) Gal. 2.9 Yea (f) Gal. 2.2 he sought also their approbation and feared that without it he should have runne in vaine And which is yet more he seeketh to win commendation and credit even to those which he by his Apostolicall authoritie might have established by the example and judgment of other churches If those Churches which were planted by the Apostles themseltes might take comfort in the good opinion that other Churches had of them May not we much more If the Ministery of Paul and orders he prescribed to the Church received further credit by the approbation of the Churches Then their approbations give some credit to the ministerie and orders of the Church now The doctrine and word of God though to speake properly it received authoritie onely from it selfe and the Spirit of God yet hath it ever beene the rather received by men for the testimony the Church hath given unto it So our Saviour Christ saith That Wisdome is justified of her Children Matth. 11.19 Iohn 5.34 and although he affirmeth that he received not the record of men Yet in respect of the salvation and good it men he judgeth it necessary John 1.7 8 5 33 34. that Iohn Baptist should give Testimony unto him Now if this one thing furthered the damnation of the unbelieving Iewes that they would not heare nor receive Christ though testimony were given of him by one whom they knew to be sent of God shall not this further the condemnation of these men that they refuse to heare and receive us though we be commended unto them by the testimony of so many Churches of God Some cases there bee wherein wee are commanded to seeke for the judgment of the Churches and to account it the judgment of God else why did the Church at Antioch in a question that could not be debated at home seeke to the Church at Jerusalem for helpe especially seeing they had two such excellent men with them as Paul and Barnabas whose judgments they might safely have trusted unto (d) Acts 15.2 saith our Saviour that whatsoever they binde on earth shall be bound also in heaven (e) Matth. 18 18. and saith he not also to Churches of other Nations Shall he be accounted as an heathen or a Publican that will not regard the judgment and censure of the particular Congregation whereof hee is a member (f) Matth 18.17 and shall they not be much more accounted so that despise the judgment of all the Churches Must the spirits of the Prophets be subject to the Prophets amongst whom we live (g) 1 Cor. 14.32 and must not both people and Prophets be subject to all the Prophets and Churches in the world The abilitie to trie and discerne the spirits and doctrines of such teachers as arise in the Church is such a gift as the true Church never wanted (h) 1 Ioh. 4.1 Revel 2.2 neither could it bee the pillar and ground of truth (i) 1 Tim 3.15 if it should be ignorant of a truth so necessary to the salvation of men as this is viz. What people is accounted to be the true Church of God if God hath given his Church power to judge and pronounce a particular man that he is in the state of salvation and that so infallibly that he hath promised to ratifie in heaven the judgment which the Church shall in this case give upon earth (k) Matth. 18 18. may it not bee said that hee hath much more made the Church able to discerne and pronounce of a Congregation or people that is a true visible Church which is a matter of no such difficultie as the other So that to conclude though those men make so light of the judgment and testimony of other Churches 1 Cor. 14 36. as if the Word of God had come out from them onely or as if themselves were able to judge of us better than all the godly learned besides Yet doe wee take much comfort and assurance from hence that we are the true Church of God Now it remaines that we answer such reasons as are objected against our Church bythem Objections answered THe first thing that they
workes viz. preaching of the Word and administration of the Sacraments the censures of admonition suspension excommunication and provision for the necessitie of the poore are in many of our Assemblies performed and by Law ought to be in all that there ore we cannot justlie be said to be without the discipline of Christ but rather that we having the discipline of Christ which is most substantiall doe want the other and so exercile it not rightlie that is to say not by those Officers which Christ â—ath appointed Secondly It is well knowne that the chiefe works and discipline Secondly The chiefe workes of Christs Discipline are exercised with us even by those Officers that he appointed namely the preaching of the Word and administration of the Sacraments and consequentlie the principiall part of that power to binde and loose which Christ gave to his Church is not only exercised in manie oâ— our Assemblies but exercised also by those very Officers which Christ hath appointed for us the Lawes of our land doe authorize the Minister to staie from the Lords Table all such as are uncatechised and out of charitie or any otherwise publike offenders as appeareth in the Rubrick before the Communion and in that which is after confirmation And from whence else commeth the trouble of many of our Ministers but from the exercising of this authoritie even from the suspending of the ungodly from the Sacrament and stinging their consciences by the preaching of the word Thirdly Thirdly though the â—â—â—pâ—ine were not exercised at all with us it could not therefore follow that we have it not Fourthly Though even through ignorance or fearefulnesse wee were kept froÌ„ it yet might wee have right and authoritie to use it Though none of our Assemblies did use this power it followeth not from therce that we have it not No more than it doth follow that the rich churle hath no monie because he useth none and that a man therefore hath no authoritie because hee doth not exercise any Fourthly Admit we were not able through want of knowledge and courage to use this power Yet followeth it not that therefore wee want the right and authoritie to use it For if those Churches which the Prophet reproveth a Ezek. 22.26 for putting no difference between the holy and prophane or that which the Apostle blameth for not putting the incestuous person from among them had they wanted authoritie to use this power how could they justlie have beene reproved for neglecting the exercising thereof Lastly Though it were granted that we wanted both the exercise of the Churches censures and some of those Officers which our Saviour hath appointed to exercise them by Yet might wee bee a true visible Church notwithstanding there was a true Church in Iudah all the daies of Asa b 1 Cor 5.1 2. and Iehosaphat a 2 Chro. 15.9.10 17 5 9 yet was not the discipline reformed there till the latter daies of Iehosaphats Reigne b 2 Chro. 19 8 11. Ezek 22.26 That also was a true Church even then when the Apostles found this fault with them d 1 Cor. 5.1 2. the Congregation at Samariah is called a Church before the discipline was established there And even in Jerusalem there was a famous visible Church of Christ long before sundry parts of the discipline for want whereof they condemne us were established there yea it is evident that by the Apostles themselves diverse Churches were gathered some good space of time g Acts 13.43 14 11 21 23. Tit 5.5 before the discipline was setled or exercised e Acts 8.12.19 31. Acts 2.41 42. by all which is manifest that how necessary soever those parts of the discipline which we want be to the beautie and well being or preservation of the Church Yet are they not necessary to the being therof but that a true Church may be without them And as we may well call him a man that wanteth not only sundry parts of his body as an Arme or a Legge or Eye but is also distempered much even in the Braine and Liver and heart and the rest of the viâ—all parts so may wee rightly call that a Church which not only wanteth sundry of those Officers which Christ hath ordained but hath also even in the ministerie of the word and the profession of the true faith which are as it were the braine and heart of a true Church much maimednesse and distemper The places of Scripture which they alleadge to disprove this which wee have said are unskilfully applyed In the collection of Letters and conferences page 69. Ephes 4.11 12. Rom. 12.8 for the one of them mentio eth no other ordinary officers out Pastors and Teachers which our Church professeth the other though it proveth there should bee other Officers besides them there named yet doth it not affirme that without them there can be no true Church OBJECT IIII. The fourth thing which they object against the whole body of our Assemblies is this Object The fourth Objection against the whole body of our Assemblies is that we stand under the Popish Church government wâ—â— reason also is insufficient to warrant their separation That we stand under us they say a false and Antichristian government for that wee are directed by and subject to Canons Courts and authoritie of the Bishops which they do not content themselves in the 68.69 page of their collection of Letters and conferences to call Popish and Antichristian and Aegyptian and Babylonish Tokes but in regard thereof they say our Assemblies Cast our Sathan by the power of Sathan To this fourth objection we make this answer First Seeing it hath beene already shewed that the discipline which our Church exerciseth is in substance the same with that which Christ instituted they cannot with any colour of truth say that all our Church government is Popish and Antichristian but only that it is popishly and corruptly administred Answ 1. The substance of our discipline is Christ and not Antichrists 2 Thes 10.11 2 Tim. 4.1.3 1 Iohn 2.22 1 Iohn 4 3. Iohn 7. Revel 13.5 16. Secondly Though it were confessed that in the callings and authoritie of the Bishops there bee diverse things Antichristian Yet see we not how our Bishops could truly be called Antichrists or Antichristians because first the word when it describeth Antichrist and teacheth us how to know him useth to marke him out by his false doctrine Neither can we find in holy Scripture any such accounted an Antichrist or Antichristian who holding the truth of doctrine and professing all the fundamentall Articles of the faith doth swerve either in judgment or practise from that rule which Christ hath given for the discipline of his Church Now it is evident that our Bishops both doe and by the Lawes of our Land ought to hold and teach all doctrines and truths that are fundamentall Yea some of them have learnedly and soundly maintained the truth against Heretickes
amongst other considerations the course of the Gospel should not be stayed till ordination be fetched from farre countreys the Lord himselfe oftentimes supplieth the places of the Ministers and Elders and layeth on his hands such evidence of gifts and graces proper for the Ministry as not onely the Church doth willingly acknowledge but the enemies also will they nill they are in their consciences convinced to be divine and excellent And seeing it is evident that neither the Prophets under the law nor many worthy Ministers that God hath raised up since the time of the Gospel had ever before their entrance into the Ministry their gifts solemnly approved or been ordained Our Brethren must needs grant that this kinde of ordination is not simply or absolutely necessary to the being of a Minister To which also this may be added that our Saviour in giving notice whereby the true Pastor should be discerned from the false nameth only these viz. that he enter himselfe and lead the people in and out by that dore Secondly that the people of God agree with him and consent to his Ministrie Thirdly that the Porter the holy Ghost open the hearts of the hearers to him and his doctrine a which 3. notes doubtlesse our Saviour would not have rested in if there could have been no true Minister without the ordination which our Brethren speak of and urge that as a matter of absolute necessitie Their second reason viz. that we reccive our OrdinatioÌ„ from Antichristian Bishops ialso insufficient for first Our Bishops cannot trulie be called Antichristian So that to conclude this point wee say that the ordinary course of entring into the Ministrie is not kept but a great imperfection and want is to be acknowledged where this election and ordination is not used Yet is not the want such as taketh away the very life and being of a true ministerie Their second reason against our entrance is That our ordination is received from Antichristian Prelates and such as being persecutors of the godly cannot bee well accounted brethren or members of the Church much lesse can they give a calling to a Minister of the Church whereunto we answer First Secondly seeing our Bishops are such as can judge of the sufficiencie of gifts and are also Ministers It cannot be unlawfull for him that is to bee a Ministers to receive approbation and authoritie from them That the Bishops of England cannot truly be called Antichristian Prelates for proofe whereof wee referre our selves unto that answer we have given unto their fourth Objection against the whole bodie of our Church Secondly seeing it cannot bee denied that the Bishops are able to judge of such gifts as are required for the sufficiencie of Ministers yea that many of them have beene such Ministers themselves as to whose labours the Lord hath set to his Seale and who have also suffered persecution for the truth we are perswaded that though it were not necessary yet it cannot be unlawful for him that entreth into the ministery to be approved and authorized even by them And if our ordination be in this behalfe faultie how will out Brethren justifie the calling of their own Ministers Thirdly the gifts power to ordaine which God hath commited to his Church we may lawfully seeke the benefit of it even at worse mensch nâ—s then our Bishops are if we cannot otherwise come by it that have received ordination ever from the people who neither by commandement not example can be found to have any such authoritie nor are in any degree to capable of it as the Bishops Thirdly the ordination we seeke for from the Bishops is not theirs but committed to the Church by Christ Himselfe And seeing wee have already proved that there was in England a true Church even then when this authoritie was first given by Parliament to the Bishops and that the true Church which without a ministerie cannot possibly bee continued is never without power to ordaine Ministers Wee may lawfully reverence and seeke for the benefit of this power and priâ—â—ledge which God hath given to his Church though it were conveied unto us by men lesse capable of this authoritie then our Bishops are And he that thinketh Christs ordination the better for the man that bestoweth it iucurreth as we thinke the danger of the curse Fourthly We may lawfullie seeke the Bishops approbation because from his hands only we can receive the civill Magistrates allowance to exercise our Ministrie denounced against him that putteth his trust in man and maketh flesh his arme and nith draâ—eth his heart from the Lord. Ier. 17.5 Fifthly If our Bishops were not at all capable of this power to give Ecclesiasticall Ordination yet seeing the Christian Magistrates approbation is not to be refused by him that exerciseth a ministerie in the Church and that cannot be had in our Church but by the hands of the Bishops we thinke that he who is fitted of God to the ministerie and hath also testimonie of his fitnesse from such godly learned Brethren as have made tryall of his gifts and can judge of them may lawfully accept and seeke for this kinde of approbation if all other conditions bee equall Sixthly Admit the Bishops from whom we receive our ordination 6. Though the Ordination received from the Bishops were as corrupt as baptismal received from popish Priests Yee may he be a lawfull Minister that hath no other Ordination then from the Bishops Their third Objection agaiust our Ministerie is that our administration and exercise of that office whereunto we are thus called is also Antichristian were indeed Antichristian or Heretickes as we judge them not to be yet why should wee bee bound to seeke for any other ordination more than another baptisme then that which we have received from Popish Priests in the time of ignorance And seeing that Barrow and Groenwood in the 54. page of their refutation doe not onely account many to be true Christians that never had other outward Baptisme then that which they had from Popish Priests but plainely affirme that such neither need nor ought to be baptized againe we wonder why they dare not account us true Ministers because of this ordination received from the Bishops Shall ordination bee thought more necessary to the being of a Minister than baptisme is to the being of a Christian or shall an error in ordination have more force to prove one no Minister than an error in Baptisme hath to prove one no Christian or are our Bishops worse than the Popish Priests or the corruption in the forme of our ordination greater than those that are used in popish Baptisme The third thing they object against our Ministerie Is that the admistration and exercise of our function is not agreeable to the Word but Antichristian because say they as at our entrance we sweare Cannonicall Obedience to the Bishops Fifthly Which is insufficient to warrant their separatioÌ„ for it is not utterly
unlawfull for us to yeeld some kinde of obedience to Bishops so doe we performe it in our whole administration by going to their Courts by standing and falling at their commandement Whereunto we answer First that so long as the Christian Magistrate requireth we should yield obedience to the Bishops and that with this limitation viz. only in things lawfull and honest wee thinke it not unlawfull for us to give obedience to them in those things they doe by civill authoritie though neither themselves nor the Magistrate might well require us to doe for even our Saviour Himselfe yeelded obedience to Cesar in such a thing wherein Caesar could not lawfully exact obedience of him as for the excommunication and suspentions Mat. 17.24 27 and such other censures as are meerely Ecclesiasticall We answer As the true Church of God which from the Lord Iesus hath received these keyes of the Kingdome of Heaven did though unadvisedly and unlawfully deliver them over into the hands of the Bishops And the Bishops being Preachers of the Word though they should not have this power wholly committed unto them yet are they capable of it We see not how it should be utterly unlawfull to reverence and yeeld to the censures of Christs Church being exercised and administred even by them unlesse wee will say that the Church presently looseth her right and power to censure Offenders when she committeth it unto any such men as unto whom of right either not at all or not of right only it belongeth Secondly Secondly Not bind our selves thereto by oath so far as we doe Now as wee may lawfully yeeld some obedience to the Bishops in these things so wee may lawfully binde our selves by oath to doe it if our oathes be required or us by the Christian Magistrates anthoririe especially seeing we doe by oath binde our selves to obey in regard of the civill authoritie which is committed to them by the Christian Magistrate Thirdly For our going to their Courts this we answer That seeing we doe testifie in our callings our dislike to the vile and odious corruptions of their Courts And doe also utterly refuse to yeeld obedience to any oâ— their unlawfull decrees we cannot justly bee condemned for appearing intheir Courts or any other place whereunto we are by His Majesties authoritie summoned And whereas the persons before whom wee appeare are judged usually corrupt and enemies to that Reformation which wee desire and some of them also such as being no ministers themselves do by all meanes seeke the disgrace of our calling and the utter discoutagement of such Christians as in whom they perceive any sparkes of true zeale wee account this our appeating at their Courts not onely for an abridgment of our libertie but also for such a burthen as wee have just cause to groane under and to pray that God would in His good time move His Majesties heart to eate us of it And yet as the Apostle being free was content for the Churches sake not onely to become bound in serving it with the labour of his hands but also by subjecting himselse to those Ceremonies which in Christ were abolished so may and ought we for the Churches sake to beare this burden rather than to forsake or refuse the ministerie when the Lord hath called and fitted us unto it For our yeelding to the suspentions and deprivations wee answer That so long as the Bishops suspend and deprive according to the Law of the Land wee account of the action herein Fourthly To cease from the execution of our ministerie when they suspend or deprive us as of the act of the Church which wee may and ought to reverence and yeeld unto if they doe otherwise wee have liberty given us by the Law to appeale from them if it bee said that the Church is not to bee obeyed when it suspends and deprives us for such causes as wee in our Consciences know to be insufficient We answer That it lyeth in them to depose that may ordaine and they may shut that may open And that as he may with a good conscience execute a ministerie by the ordination and calling of the Church who is privie to himselfe of some unfitnesse if the Church will presse him to it so may he who is privie to himselfe of no fault that deserveth deprivation cease from the execution of his ministery when he is pressed thereunto by the Church And if a guiltlesse person put out of his charge by the Churches authoritie may yet continue in it what proceedings can there bee against guiltie persons who in their owne conceit are alwaies guiltlesse or will at least pretend so to be Seeing they also will bee readie alwayes to object against the Churches judgment that they are called of God and may not therefore give over the execution of their ministerie at the will of man And yet admitting it were meerely unlawfull Fourthly If this obedience wee yeeld to them were utterly unlawfull yet may we be true Ministers of Christ notwithstanding upon any respect to yeeld any new obedience at all to the censures of the Bishops yet how will it follow that this our unlawfull yeelding hath force sufficient to make us ipso fasto no true Ministers unlesse you will say that the High Priests who were in Christs time that took and left their offices at the will of tyrants and heathen Princes Were therefore not to be accounted Priests for further answer hereunto we referre the Reader to that which wee have above said to the fourth thing which they object against the whole body of our Assemblies And to that also which wee have already answered unto the fourth reason which they bring against our office The speech of the Apostls The speech of the Apostles Acts 4.19 20 15. most unskilfully alleaged against us 1 Tim. 6.2 which they are wont to object against us in this case may easily appeare how unskilfully it is alleadged to them that will consider these three differences betweene their case and ours First they that inhibited the Apostles were knowne and professed enemies to the Gospell Secondly the Apostles were charged not to teach in the name of Christ nor to publish any part of the Doctrine of the Gospell which commandement might more hardly bee yeelded unto then this of our Bishops who though they cannot indure them which teach that part of the truth that concerneth the good government and reformation of the Church yet are they not only content that the Gospell should bee preached but are also preachers of it themselves Thirdly The Apostles received not their calling and authority from men (c) Galath 2.1 nor by the hands of men but immediately from God Himselfe and therefore also might not bee restrained or deposed by men whereas wee though we exercise a function whereof God is the Author and we are also called of God to it yet are we called and ordeined by the hand and ministerie of men and may therefore by men
of the people require tenths of his people to the maintenance of the ministerie of which as wee have said before he is bound to have a more speciall care and regard then of the maintenance of the warres or any other civill estate Their fourth reason against our maintenance is Fourthly Although we bee maintained by offerings and mortuary That it ariseth from popish offerings and mortuaries Concerning which wee answer as followeth First Their be sundry of our Ministers that receive none at all against whose Congregations and Ministers this reason cannot hold and many even of them to whom the Law alloweth offerings have refused them that were accustomed to bee given at the Churchings and burialls and such other as the receiving whereof they see would bee likely to nourish superstition in the people Secondly If all did receive and live by offerings we see not what pollution can come to their ministerie thereby for why may not that creature of God which was first given to profane and superstitious uses bee now lawfully translated to the maintenance of Gods service seeing that even under the Law translation was lawfull when for a Ceremony to shadow what detestation the people of God should beare to the manners of the heathen and how they should be separated from them Many things were made uncleane to the Iewes that are not so to us So also the Iron and Brasse Silver and Gold of Jericho a Iosua 6.24 was put into the treasure of Gods house as appeareth in the story of Joshuab And David dedicated unto the Lord the brasse and silver and gold of all the Nations that he subdued as may also appeare by Samuel b 2 Sam. 8.11 Now if those goods that were not onely put a part to an Idolatrous use by a civill institution but also actually abused to Idolatrie might yet lawfully bereceaved for the maintenance of the true service of God how much more may the mony wee receave for offerings c. be lawfully taken and enjoyed by us seeing whatsoever originall the money and institution had yet was it never applyed to any Idolatrous use Thirdly If those offerings were polluted things yet are they too accidentall to overthrow the very being and nature of our ministerie Our People may beaccounted Members of a true visible CHURCH III. EXCEPTION THeir third generall exception is against our people and the private Members of our Assemblies Whom they affirme to be such as no true Church of God can consist of ANSWER THe reasons amongst us to account of people Our people say they are such as cannot be members of a true Church But we have good reasons to account our people holy true Members of the visible Church for the members of the true Church are these First We know many in whom we thinke we doe discerne infallible notes of an unfained conversion Secondly That all that are by many of our Ministers admitted to the Sacrament and other the priviledges of the Church are such as can give account in some true measure of their faith and doe not only generally professe obedience but when they are convinced of any particular sin they are also willing to professe parricular sorrow and purpose of amendment Thirdly many of those who are wicked and ignorant wee cannot see just cause to account them wilfully ignorant nor obstinately rebellious and therefore we may lawfully esteeme them brethren 2 Thâ—s 3 14 â—â— notwithstanding their ignorance and sin and this we thinke the Apostles owne words will warrant us to doe Fourthly our people in generall professe the true faith and obedience of Christ which makes them members of the â—â—ole Church as wee have already proved and if an being dealt with according to the rule that Christ prescribeth shall bee found wilfull and obstinate in his ignorance and sin 〈◊〉 18.15 17 then as he ceaseth to professe the true faith and obedience of Christ So may wee by the Lawes of our Land cease to account him a member of our Church The first thing they object against our people is this Their first reason against our people is that thâ—â—r can no separation bee discerned amongst them but the consist of all â—oâ—â—s Which reason â—s fâ—lse and insufficient That the ignorant and prâ—phane multiâ—u le as they are confusedly by our Baptisme maâ—â—e memberâ— of our Church and admitted to all other th priviledges thereof so is there no separation say they to be observed amongst them in their ordinary conversation concerning which matter these are their own words in the ninth page of their discovery All the prophane and wicked of the Land Atheists Papists Anabaptists Heretickes of all sorts gluttons riotous blasphemous c. and who not that dwelleth in this land or is within the Kings-dominions all without exception are received into and nourished in the bosome of this Church with the Word and Sacraments none are here refused none are here kept out Wherunto we answer First 〈…〉 â—2 â—1 â—2 53. 〈◊〉 14.4 17 4 5. That even by the preaching of the Word that separation which the Scripture so much commendeth is wrought and evidently to be discovered amongst the people of our Land and very many of our people there be that doe carefully shunne the private familiaritie of all notorious offendors Secondly As all our Ministers may by Law so many of them doe keepe from the Lords Table every ignorant person and notorious offend or Thirdly Many of our Ministers doe refuse to receive such into the Church by Baptisme whose Parents will not make a confession of true faith and obedience to Christ Neither doth publike authoritie of Law enforce us to receive any mans Child against whom it may be manifestly proved that he professeth not the true faith Fourthly children may lawfully bee admitted to baptisme though both their Parents bee profane if those who are in the stead of Parents to them doe require baptisme for them and give their promise to the Church for their religious education seeing they may bee lawfully accounted within Gods covenant if any of their ancesters in any Generations were faithfull a Exod. 20.5 Their second Objection against our people is that none of them be accounted holy faithfull because they obey not Christ nor practise his ordinances Which is also false and insufficient for first themselves know many of our people to be such as have religiously reformed their owne persons and families and carefully sought the reformation of the Church The second thing they object against our people is That the best of them are without true faith because they live not in obedience of Christ set up among them nor practise his Ordinances Whereunto wee answer First It is a most rash and presumptuous judgement to denie them amongst us to bee a faithfull people of whom these our brethren themselves doe know that they have by the hearing of the Word beene brought to such a faith as bath beene effectuall
in the Reformation of their lives because partly for that they knew it not and partly for that they are hindred by authoritie they practise not the whole discipline of Christ And this rash judgment which they give of our people is so much the more blame-worthy because they cannot be ignorant with what care our people have sought by all good and dutifull meanes the Reformation of the Church And how much they have be wailed and mourned for the want thereof for which matter also wee referre the Reader to the answer we have above given to their fourth and fifth objections against the whole body of our Assemblies Secondly Our people deserve not to be blamed for that they erect not the discipline for First They esteeme both our Prince to be a most lawfull and a Christian Magistrate and our Ministers to bee true Ministers of Christ by whose meanes seeing they have received from God and do still enjoy not those blessings only that belong to the comfort of this life but the meanes of eternall happinesse and the effectuall assurance of it also they are justlie afraid that by enterprising a publike Reformation not only without but contrary to the direction and liking of them who by Gods Word ought to have if not the only yet the principall hand in that worke they should highly offend God 2. They cannot finde any warrant in holy Scripture for them that are private Members of the Church to erect the discipline no not though the Magistrate and Ministers who should deale in this worke were altogether profane and ungodlie in deviding the Land of Canaan which was a type of Heaven and of the Church under the Gospell and in all the Church causes that were dealt in under the government of Iosua which was a type of Christs government neither private persons nor the whole multitude had the managing of matters Iosh 19.51 21 1. 22 14 but the people did all by the Elders and chiefe Fathers a which also was commanded b Numb 34.16.28 So in publike Church causes under the Gospell the Lord hath ordained certaine speciall men chosen out from among the people by their consent to rule and governe the rest c 1 Tim. 5.17 4.14 And where God hath sanctified and separated a speciall sort of men to any office or the administration thereunto belonging there hath hee restrained all others that are not of the same sort from doing the actions properly belonging to that office as may well appeare by comparing these places of holy Scripture together d Numbr 4.15 with the first Chron 13.7 10 Num. 4.20 with 1 Sam. 6.19 Num. 16.40 3.10 Heb. 5.4 with 2 Chron. 26.16 19. Acts 14.23 Therefore also wee see the faithfull at Listra â—conium and Antiochiah l ad no Elders till the Apostles by their consent ordained them No more had they at Creta till Tiâ—us was sent to that purpose To the places of holy Scripture which they alleadge for this their second Objection against our people we answer First That some of them a Ier. 31.34 Ezech. 44.8 9. Cant. 4.7 1 Pet. 2.9 Acts 15.9 concerne the invisible Church and therfore are ignorantly applyed to the description of them that are members of the Church visible As if no measure of faith and holinesse were to be allowed by men in the judging of the members of the Church visible but that onely which the Lord Himselfe alloweth of in juding of the elect Members of the visible Church Whereas it is evident that to the making of the Members of the visible Church an outward obedience and profession of faith is sufficient though there be no inward grace nor truth in the heart Secondly That some of them require indeed that every Christian should seeke the Kingdome of God and the place where God is worshipped according to his Word submit themselves to the Yoke of Christ and to obey him in all his Ordinances but that the people without either the Magistrate or Ministers helpe or consent should reform the Church and erect the discipline they are so farre from commanding that if they be well compared with that wee have above said they will be found to command the contrarie The third thing they object against our people Is That though some of them had once beene faithfull yet by tollerating in their Assemblies the open prophane by wanting power to cast them out and communicateing with them in their worship of God they are now become not ue Church of Christ Whereunto we answer First that the godly which are in our Assemblies do not at all tollerate the wicked profane but doe as much as in them lieth shew their dislike to them mourning also for their profanenesse and for the want of Christian discipline whereby they might be separated Yea the very Lawes of our Church as hath beene above said doe separate from our Assemblies the open prophane Secondly admit they did not at all shut out the prophanie either because they know not their right or for that they are hindred and restrained to doe it or that they sin in not using their right in this case or if it were granted that the people even the private members of the assemblies had full authoritie given them by Christ without the Ministers or Magistrates consent to cast out and excommunicate the open profane the contrary whereof hath been before sufficiently proved yet might they as lawfully for want of power or for such inconveniences tollerate the prophanie amongst them and so forbeare the execution of their authoritie in this case as either David did spare Joab 2 Sam 3 39. 2. Kings 14 5. or Amaziah those rebels that slew his father because they were not strong enough doe justice upon them Thirdly the communicating in Gods service with these open sinners Thirdly they may be true members of the Church though they doe communicate in Gods worship with the open profane as may appeare by the example of the godly that lived under the law whom the godly in some of our assemblies are enforced to communicate with or to want the benefit of Gods publike worship is not sufficient either to make him profane or pollute unto them the holy things of God for proofe whereof we alleadge First the examples of the godly that lived under the Ceremoniall law The Prophets either served not God at all in the Temple or else they joyned in Gods service with many that were notoriously stained with grosse sinnes for who are they whose sinnes the Prophets so mightily cry out upon (d) Esay 1.10 Jer. 5.1.9 and 7 8.11 Ezek. 16 4â—.52 and 22 25.26 but such as were admitted to the publike worship of God If the Babylonians and the Caldeans should violently have included themselves into the Church assemblies of Gods people in the time of their captivitie should the godly Jewes by such presence of the wicked which they wanted power to hinder either have beene perswaded to cease
Lawes executed and not to make new Neither doe they judge ever a whit more dutifully of the Churches of God for of them they use to speake as if their had beene no true Church in the world till they sprung up Nor were at this time any right constituted Church Assembly in the world but their owne for in the Epistie to the Reader which they prefixed before their discovery and in the first page thereof they have these words The whole land I say not the whole World hath lyen so long and is so deepe set in the defâ—ction c. And in the second page Although the truth hath long layn hid and buried and be now impugned of all men But why should wee wonder that they iudge so erroniously of men seeing the sacred Worship of God they hold that it may receive pollution from men that deale in it for in the 30. page of their discovery They teach that the open sinne of the Minister defileth the Sacrament and Prayer administâ—ed by them Yea in the 34. page they goe somewhat further and say That the knowne and suffered sinne of any one member is coniagious to all such as communicate with him in that estate and make th them all as guiltie in Gods sight as he himselfe is Touching the Articles of our faith which by all the godly in all ages have beene called the Apostles creed Thus they speake in the 76. page of their discoverie Their forged patchry commonly called the Apostls Creede The Article of Christs descending into Hell what sence soever it be taken in they call in the 48. page of their refutation That Blasphemous Article of our Faith Besides these grosse absurdities they hold against other points of wholsome doctrine let the Reader guesse at the judgment they have in the manner of Church government wherein they would appeare to be better seene then all the godly learned in the world besides by these few things which we will offer to his consideration First whereas they have in their writings disclaimed the discipline which wee desire and other reformed Churches have received they have never yet clearely set downe what discipline it is which themselves stand so much for In the 27. page of their discoverie when they have scoffed at the discipline we seeke they offer words to this effect That without the power and practise of the diligent watch of every member but chiefly of the Rulers and Elders the Word of God is made as Idoll the Sacrament sacriledge unto us and all things we doe odious and abominable to the Lord Whereby it appeareth they are of opinion that there can be no true Religion there where either there is no Eldership established or where the Elders faile in the execution of their office or where any one private member of the Church shall faile in doing the Office of a Watchman and censurer to the rest much like to this is that which they write in the 37. page of their refutation Hath the greater Minister in the Church any more power to retaine and loose the sinne of the least member then the same member hath to binde or loose his sinne In the 119. page of their discoverie speaking of the Church government which hath beene sought for amongst us and received by other reformed Churches they have these words The thing it selfe they corrupt in that they adde new devises of their owne as their Pastorall suspensi 〈◊〉 from their Sacraments their set continued Syâ—eds their select classes of Ministers their settled supreame Councell whereby they have well expressed what they meane in the 29. and 249. pages of their refutation when they affirme that the Church hath no power to make any Loves of indifferent things And page 193. of their discovery That the people without any Minister may give ordination and full calling into the ministery Secondly As their judgment is erronious so is the practise of their discipline in their Assemblies most disorderly For first none can gather Churches from Infidelitie nor may goe about it but only such as are appointed to it by our Saviour Christ and he hath appointed none for that worke but Ministers which also themselves in the fourth page of the preface prefixed to the refutation doe confesse we would gladly know by what ministrie their Assemblies were first gathered by what presbyterie were the Ministers that first gathered their Assemblies examined and ordained with imposition of hands Secondly when the first were gathered what foundation had they to ground their faith and doctrine upon especially in these point of controversie when they neither had any other translation of the Scripture then that which they received from us whom they judged no better than Heretickes and Infidels nor any one among them who by the knowledge in the tongues was able to examine our translation by the originall Scriptures Thirdly How great a disorder it is that in their Assemblies private persons are allowed to interpret the Scriptures publikely and that they hold faith may even ordinarily be wrought by privatemen Where God hath separated and sanctified a speciall sort of men to any office and the administration thereunto belonging there he hath restrained others that are not of that sort from ordinarie doing of the actions properly belonging unto that office as may appeare by many Testimonies and examples Now it is evidant that in the Old and in the New Testament the Lord did seperate the Priests and Levites Apostles Prophets Evangelifts Pastors and Teachers to the publicke Administration of the Word and Prayer of the Sacrifices and Sacraments of the Church how then shall any other presumo to meddle there with The Priests and Levites who had ever by inheritance some right to all the services of the Tabernacle might not lawfully exercise the meanest service till they were specially called and consecrated thereunto a Exod. 28. 29. Levit. 8.34 how much lesse then might any other deale in the publike service of God without a publike calling thereunto Wee are not ignorant that they are wont to alleadge many testimonies of Scripture to warrant this disorder by but alas they doe it very ignorantlie For many of them whose examples they cite were by speciall calling separated to the Office of preaching The seventie Disciples are said to have beene sent by CHRIST b Luke 10. Paul and Barnabas when they preached at Antioch of Pisidia c Acts 13. were not onely lawfull Ministers but for ought that can appeare by this place to the contrary they were so reputed also by the Ruler of the Synagogue to whom their publike and famous preaching in so many Assemblies before with the approbation of the Jewes could not bee unknowne The faithfull men that the Apostles writes of to Timothy d 2 Tim. 2.2 who should teach others also were such only as shold be both instructed by Timothy and receive authoritie from him to do it Of some other mentioned in their quotations it is very