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A14184 A demonstration of the trueth of that discipline which Christe hath prescribed in his worde for the gouernment of his Church, in all times and places, vntill the ende of the worlde Wherein are gathered into a plaine forme of reasoning, the proofes thereof; out of the scriptures, the euidence of it by the light of reason rightly ruled, and the testimonies that haue beene giuen therevnto, by the course of the churche certaine hundredths of yeares after the Apostles time; and the generall consent of the Churches rightly reformed in these latter times: according as they are alleaged and maintained, in those seuerall bookes that haue bin written concerning the same. Udall, John, 1560?-1592. 1588 (1588) STC 24499; ESTC S103026 63,031 134

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that the scarcitie of them was suche as Paule was constrayned to sende Timothie and Titus to great cities which he could hardly spare as he often testifieth Therefore there ought to be suche Elders as are onely to assiste in gouerrment in euery congregation 2 Those which God hath ordayned to help forward the building of the Churche ought to be in euerye congregation vnlesse it may appeare that some congregation needeth not so much helpe as Christe hath appoynted But Christ hath ordayned Elders in the Churche for the helping forwarde of the building of the Churche 1. Cor. 12. 28. Therefore suche Elders ought to be in euery congregation 3 That which being wanting the bodie can not be entire that same must be in euery congregation But the Elders cannot be wanting and the Church be an entire bodie Rom. 12. 8. which euery congregation should be Rom. 12. 4 Therefore there ought to be such Elders in euery congregation 4 If the word of God doe describe such Elders in the Church then ought they to be in euery congregation which is cleare by this that euery congregation hath need of them as well as any and that euery congregation must haue all the other officers of the Churche and that euery congregation is of equall dignitie in the bodie of Christ But the worde of God describeth vnto vs such Elders 1. Tim. 5. 17. Therfore they ought to be in euery congregation 5 There is no Church that can stand without hir Eldership or councell 6 It be longeth onely to the bishopp to baptize and the Elder and Deacon may not do it but vpon the bishops licence 7 Neither Elder nor deacon haue right but vpon the bishops commandement so much as to baptize 8 Elders fell away thorow the ambition of the teachers 9 Valerius the bishopp did contrary to the custome of the Apostolicall Churches in appoynting Augustine to preache being but an Elder 10 After that Arrius was conuicted of haeresie it was decreed that elders should no more preach 11 The number of the Elders of euerye Churche ought to be encreased according to the multitude of the people 12 Speaking of the Elders that were to assist the minister he lamenteth that it is so fallen out of the church that the name doth scarse remaine 13 Certain of the people were ioyned with the pastor in the gouernment of the Churche because the pastor was not able to doe all himselfe 14 There were elders 〈◊〉 did assist the minister in the gouernment of 〈◊〉 Church c. 15 VVhitgift confesseth that in the primitiue Church they had in euery Church certain Seniors pag. 638. Let it then appeare out of the word to satisfie the conscience how it may bee left out 16 If the platforme set downe to Timothie and Titus be for all Churches then must Elders be in all for these Elders are there described But it is a platforme for all Churches and that to the ende of the world 1. Tim. 6. 14. Therefore they ought to be in euerye congregation 17 That which is contained in euery ministers commission to teache practize must be in euery congregation but the ordination practize of that office is in euery ministers cōmission Matth. 28. 20. or els they ordayned Elders without warrant from Christ which none dare affirme Therefore there must be Elders in euery congregation 18 Wheresoeuer a bishoppe must be there must also the Elders bee whiche appeareth by this that where the one is described there is the other also But a bishopp must be in euery congregation as I haue prooued sufficiently in the 10. Chap. Therefore there ought to be elders in euery congregation 19 If the Apostles laboured for vniformitie in the least things and established in all Churches one order then must there be Elders in euery congregation for they were in some as al men do confesse But the former is true as not onely the view of their practize declareth but also the Apostles expresse words Thus I teach in all Churches Therefore the latter is true also that in euery congregation there must be such Elders Therfore if the Apostles established Elders in euery congregation if Christe hath esteemed their helpe needfull to further the buylding of his Church if without them a congregation cannot be entire if the worde of God say that they ought to be in the Churche if it was continued so long after the Apostles time and be approoued by the testimonie of manie very learned both olde and newe writers and confessed by the greatest aduersary vnto them if they be within the compasse of euerye ministers commission if they are to be wheresoeuer a bishopp must be if the Apostles established vniformitie euen in the meanest thinges then must it needs followe that there ought to be such Elders in euery congregation as are to assiste the minister in the gouernement of the same They confesse it was so in the Apostles time but seeme to say somewhat that it cannot be vnder a christian magistrate thus 1 Obiection God hath giuen the soueraigne authoritie ouer his Church to the Christian magistrate which these Elders would abridge Ansvver No more then the eldership abridged the soueraigntie of Dauid ouer Israell for his gouernment is temporall and theirs spirituall 2 Obiection Gualter vpon the 1. Cor. 5. denieth it to be needfull vnder a christian magistrate Ansvvere Gualter denieth excommunication vnder a christian magistrate he is as partial in this argument as VVhitgift 3 Obiection The prince hath the authority that the Elders had Ansvvere That is no truer then to saye the prince hath authoritie to preach the word c. for these be thinges that his high authoritie must see done but he may doe none of them himselfe But there be many reasons which may bee alleadged to prooue that they are at the least as necessary vnder a Christian magistrate in these dayes as they were in the time of the Apostles as namely these 1 The lesse able that ministers are to direct their people in the wayes of godlines the more neede they haue of the assistaunce that God hath allowed them in his word But ministers are now lesse able especially vnder Christian magistrats when men are ouertaken with ease and peace which quench good things thē they were in the time of the Apostles Therefore there is as great if not greater need of Elders now then was in the time of the Apostles 2 If christian magistrates be to maintayne the order that Christ hath set down for the gouernement of his Churche then must there be Elders in it vnder a Christian magistrate for Elders are approoued of Christ 1. Cor. 12. 8. But Christian magistrates are to mayntaine the order that Christe hath set downe for the ruling of his Church Isai. 49. 23. Therefore there must be Elders in the Church vnder a christian magistrate 3 If the rule of Christe cannot be perpetually obserued tell the
perpetuall 4 That whose seuerall parts is perpetuall which hath perpetuall gifts giuen for the furnishing thereof for euer that same must needs be perpetuall But the seuerall parts of the Eldership as pastour doctour and Elders be perpetuall as is proued in the 10. 12. chap. Therfore the Eldership is perpetuall 5 Whatsoeuer is grounded vpon the generall commaundements and rules of the scriptures that same is perpetuall But the gouerning of the Church by the Eldership is such as hath partly bene prooued in election and ordination and execution of the seuerall Churche offices which is the greatest part of gouernement and shall further appeare in the censures of the Church hereafter Therfore the gouernment of the Church by the Eldership is perpetuall 6 Whatsoeuer manner of gouernment hath sufficient power and that from God to begin continue and strengthen both the gouernors of the Church in their callings and the people in the course of obedience vnto Christe that same gouernment is to be perpetual But such is the gouernment by the Eldershipp as appeareth by this that the Apostles vsed no other Therefore the Eldership is to be perpetuall 7 That gouernment which the 12. Apostles and Paule before they consulted together did vniformly agree in that same must needs be of God and consequently perpetuall vnlesse the repealing of it doe appeare but suche is the gouernement by the Eldership for all the aduersaries therevnto confesse that it was in the Apostles time Therefore it is perpetuall 8 Whatsoeuer hath the same grounds that the preaching of the word and ministration of the sacramentes haue the same is perpetuall But such is the gouernment of the Eldershipp for it is grounded vpon the commaundements of Christ and practize of the Apostles Therefore it is perpetuall 9 That which hath the like groundes to bee perpetuall that the Apostles prophets and Euangelists had to be for a time the same is perpetuall But suche is the gouernement of the Church by an Eldershipp which appeareth by this that they are therefore ceased because their gifts of imediate calling c. be gone and the gifts of these ioyntly and seuerally doe remaine Therefore it is perpetuall 10 Whatsoeuer is the perpetuall and ordinary remedie to cure diseases of the Church strengthen the health of the same that same is perpetuall But suche is the gouernement by the eldershipp as appeareth by the necessitie and profite of the seuerall offices thereof and of this that we are still to obserue in causes of extremities Tell the Church Matth. 18. 17. Therefore it is perpetuall 11 That gouernement whiche was in the Church appoynted of God vnder the Law and continued in respect of the substance by christ and his Apostles and bettered in respect of the accedents by them that same is perpetuall But such is the gouernment by the Eldership as appeareth in the 12. reason of the 1. chap Therefore it is perpetuall 12 If there be any reason why this gouernment should be alterable being once set in the Church by Christ it is eyther in respect of the extraordinary offices ceased or the addition of the magistrate But not of the former because the Churche hath neuer had any neede of extraordinary giftes but God hath giuen them so will hee euer nor of the latter for that the magistrates office is to defende the buylding of the Church by that order which Christe hath set downe and not to alter any thing therein Therefore it is perpetuall 13 Eyther this gouernement is the best and perpetuall or els there is none and so Christe should be thought to haue left his Church with out a gouernement which is disprooued in the 7. 8. reasons in the 1. chap. for this was once established by Christ and so was no other But some gouernment must needes be the best and and perpetuall Therefore this is perpetuall 14 No man may iustly forbidd speaking of the church gouernment to returne to the old constitution of the churche of God and to receiue it before the custome of men 15 Experience teacheth this order speaking of the church gouernment was not for on age but necessary to all ages 16 Though the common wealth change hir gouernement yet the church must keepe hirs still 17 Lamenteth that some were found among thē that are esteemed forwardest which would not haue the same discipline vsed now a dayes that was in the Apostles times obiecting the difference of times and men 18 The Apostles haue written these lawes speaking of Discipline not for a daye or for the firste age but to endure for all times to come and therefore haue ●atified them with a most earnest obtestation 1. Tim. 6. 14. that these commandements should be kept vntill the day of the Lord. Therefore if the causes of once or dayning an Eldership be perpetuall if Christ be the author of it and left it in the Church by the Apostles if it be Gods commandement not yet repealed if the parts of it and gifts for it be perpetuall if it bee grounded vppon the generall commandements and rules of the scriptures if it haue sufficient power from God to begin continue and confirme a church if it was agreed vpon by the 12. Apostles Paule before they met together if it haue the same grounds with the preaching of the worde if it haue as good grounds to be perpetuall as the Apostles c. to be for a time if it be the perpetuall remedie against all the diseases of the Church if it was vnder the law and inriched by Christe his Apostles vnder the Gospell if it be neyther alterable in respecte of the extraordinarie offices ceased nor the magistrate added to the Churche if it be the onely gouernement that challengeth authoritie from God if no man may iustly forbidd it if it be necessarye for all times if the common wealth may chaunge hir gouernment but not the Church if the difference of times and men be nothing against it lastly if the rules that the Apostles gaue for it be confirmed with a charge to bee kept vntill the comming of Christ then must it needs follow that the gouernment of the Church by an Eldership ought to be perpetuall They obiecte that many inconueniences would follow vpon this gouernement which are seuerally to be answered 1 Obiection By this euery parrish shal follow their Seniors and then there will be so many Elderships so many diuers fashions seeing one may not meddle with another Ansvvere The gouernement desired is vniforme for euerye Churche and admitteth no change no not in outward ceremonies without a synode of the choyce men of seuerall Elderships 2 Obiection If they being al mean men chuse an Earle he may not refuse but be at their beck and commandement Ansvvere No man that is chosen is compelled to an office against his will but he that despiseth to consult with others in Gods matters because they bee poore reprocheth God that made
whereof he is aboue other places But neyther of these haue euer bene neyther hereafter can be Therefore that office is vnlawfull Therefore if the office of the Archb. be not of God if the original of it be vnknown if in the Church it be needlesse if all the gifts that God hath bestowed vppon his ministery be appropriated vnto those Church officers whereof he is none if none may lawfully bestow such an office vpon any if it can neyther bee incident vnto any one man for his excellencie nor his place for preheminence then must it needs follow that his office is vnlawfull Caluin in his Institut booke 4. cap. 11. sect 7. alleadgeth diuers reasons to this purpose and Beza in his booke of diuorcements stretcheth the same to all the inferiour officers vnder him saying Officials proctors promotours and all that swinish filth now of long time hath wasted the Churche So doth Peter Martyr vppon the Rom. 13. speaking against ciuill Iurisdiction in Byshops doth by the same reasons condemne it in their substitutes But this being the corner stone of their building they labour to support it with many props the most special whereof are these 1 Obiection Cyprian sayth lib. 1. Epist. 3. ad Cornelium Neyther haue haeresies and schismes risen of anye other occasion then of that that the prieste of God is not obeyed neyther one priest for the time and one iudge for the time in the stead of Christ thought vpon to whome if the whole brotherhood woulde be obedient according to Gods teaching no man woulde mooue any thing against the College of priests Ansvvere This place is alleaged for the pope and the answere that M. Iewel and others make to it serueth our turne onely let this be noted that Cyprian speaketh of the people at Rome that had receiued another bishop besides Cornelius who was an haeretike for all the course of his writings condemneth this superioritie It is expounded by M. Iewel booke 1. sect 4. diuision 5. of euery bishop and so is it by M. Nowell against Dorman booke 1. page 25. and also by M. Foxe tom 1. fol. 93. See T. C. in his 1. reply page 98. c. 2 Obiection The authority of the Archb. preserueth vnitie Ansvvere Cyprian lib. 4. Epist. 9. sayth that vnitie is reserued by the agreement of bishopps that is of ministers one with another 3 Obiection It compoundeth controuersies that els would growe to many heades without any special remedie Ansvvere Cyprian lib. 1. Epist. 13. sayth that the plentifull body and company of Elders are as it were the glewe of mutual concord that if any of our companye be authour of haeresie the rest should helpe 4 Obiection 〈◊〉 Ierome vpon Tit. 1. sayth that in the beginning a bishop and priest meaning a teaching Elder were all one but when men began to say I am of Paule I am of Apollo c. It was decreed that one shoulde be chosen to beare rule ouer the rest Ansvvere From the beginning it was not so the sayinge of Tertull. Contra Prax. is fitt for this that is true whatsoeuer is firste and that is false whatsoeuer is latter and Ierome sayth in the place alleaged that this authority is by custome and not by any institution of God if it had bene the best way to take away diuisions the Apostles in whose times the controuersies did arise would haue taken the same order 5 Obiection Caluine sayth that the Apostles had one among them to gouerne the rest Ansvvere That was not in superioritie but for order to propound the matters gather the voyces and such like which is meete to be in euery wel ordered meeting but his authority is no more ouer the rest thē the speaker in the Parliament hath ouer the other knightes and Burgesses 6 Obiection Paule was superior to Timothy and Titus Ansvvere Paule and they had diuers offices whereof the Apostles office was the chiefe the like is to be sayd of Timothie and Titus hauing superiority ouer the other ministers for that they were Euangelists a degree aboue ordinarie ministers Therefore if the place alleaged out of Cyprian make nothing for Archb. if vnity be not preserued by him but by the Byshoppes among themselues if his authoritie make nothing to the taking away of controuersies if it be meerly inuented by man and not from the beginning if it be by custome and not by any ordinance of God if neyther one Apostle ouer the rest nor any of them ouer the Euangelists nor of the Euangelistes ouer the pastours and teachers wil serue to prooue their authority then must it needs follow that it is vtterly vnlawful Non man may be ordayned vnto any office in the Church vntill there be such a place voyde as he is fit for T. C. booke 1. page 61. VVhitgist page 222. 1 As was the 12. place for Matthias so is a certaine Church to euery Church officer But Matthias was not ordained vnto the place of an Apostle vntill Iudas by hanging himself had made it voyde Act. 1. 20. Therefore may none be ordained vnto any office in the Church before the place where he may be imployed be destitute of such a one 2 As the Apostles did in planting of the Churches so must it bee done in the buyldinge thereof for euer But they ordayned neyther pastour teacher elder or deacon but to some certaine Church that had neede therof Therfore may none bee ordayned vnto any office vntill a place be voyd that hath need of him 3 Those thinges that bee of one beginning continuance and ending cannot be one before or after another But a minister and the execution of his ministery in a lawfull standing be so for they be relatiues haue reference one vnto the other Therfore a minister ought not be ordained before there be a ministery whervnto he is to be allotted 4 If non ought to be called to be a shepherd that hath no flocke of sheepe to keepe neither any watchman that is not allotted to som place to watch then may none be ordayned to any office before there be a place void for him for ministers are in this sence tearmed shepheards and watchmen But the former is true as euery simple man can easily perceiue Therefore the latter is true also 5 To do contrary to the precepts and practize of the Apostles is vnlawfull But to ordain any officer without a certain place wherin he may be imployed is contrary to the precepts and practize of the Apostles as it appeareth Tit. 1. 5. Act. 14. 23. Therefore to ordayne any officer of the Churche without a certayne place wherevnto he is to be allotted is vnlawfull 6 It was ordayned that no Elder Deacon or any other Ecclesiastical officer shoulde bee ordayned a Apolelymenos that is loosely or let at randone but as afterward is expounded specially in a Church of citie or towne 7 The ordination that is made without a title let it be void and in what
such is the matter of excommunication being the denouncing of that against a man which he will most hardly beleeue being the wayghtiest poynt of discipline Therefore it may not be done by one man 4 Those must excommunicate that are to deale in the other partes of discipline as shall appear in the resons following and as I think no man will denie But the other partes of discipline are exercized not by one but by the Church as hath bene prooued Therefore not one but the Church is to excommunicate 5 As it was ministred among the Iewes so must it be in the Church for euer which appeareth by this that it is translated vnto vs from them as the Greeke word Synedrion being by a corrupt imitation called Sanedrim by the Rabbins doth import and had nothing ceremoniall in it But it was executed among them by the Church and not any one Iohn 9. 22. Therefore the Church is to excommunicate and not one man 6 Sayth he would neuer do any thing in his charge without the counsell of his Elders and consent of the people 7 The elders other church-officers ha●e as wel power to obsolue as the byshop 8 For so much as absolution belongeth vnto all I alone dare not do it 9 If there be any that haue committed such a fault that he is to be put away from the partaking of the prayers of the Church c. There do be are rule certayne of the most approoued auncients or elders of the Church which haue obtayned this honour not by money but by good report 10 It helpeth much to make the party more ashamed that he be excommunicated by the whole Church also in his bookes of Bapti●me against the Donatists often 11 The Elders haue interest in other censures of the Church and the Church it selfe in excommunication 12 S. Paule accuseth the Corinthians for that the whole Church had not excommunicated the incestuous person 13 The Elders had the gouernement in excommunication 14 It is very dangerous to permit so weightie a matter to one man and therefore that tyrannie may be auoyded and this censure executed with greater fruite and grauitie the order that the Apostle there vseth is still to bee obserued 15 Hee sheweth that it pertayneth not to one man that it is a wicked fact that one should take the authoritie to himselfe that is common to others that it openeth a way to tyrannie taketh from the Church their right and abrogateth the Ecclesiasticall senate ordayned by Iesus Christ. 16 The byshops when they excommunicated of themselues alone did it ambitiously contrary to the decrees of godly cannons See Bucer against Groppet and vpon Ephes. 4. De animi Cura also Zuinglius in Ecclesiast 17 It is plentifully forbidden euen by that filthie puddle the cannon law and therefore it must needs be a haynous sinne when it findeth fault with it Therefore if excommunication be to be executed by the commaundement of Christe of the Churche if S. Paule enioyned it vnto the Church if it haue need of greatest aduice and authoritie if it belong to them that may execute the other partes of Discipline if it was so executed among the Iewes if to absolue be as well in the Elders power as the Byshops if Cyprian durst not do it alone if it was the action in Tertulians time of the most approoued Elders if to be by the whole Churche helpeth much to make the partie more ashamed if the whole Churche haue interest in it if the whole Church at Corinth was reprooued for not doing it if it be too weighty a matter for one man if the executing of it by one ouerturneth the order appoynted by Christ bringeth in tyrannie maintayneth ambition and lastly be forbidden by the cannon law it selfe Then must it needes followe that it belongeth not vnto one man to excommunicate but vnto the Eldershipp and that with the consent of the whole Church Their obiections herevnto in defence of their owne practize be these 1 Obiection The right of excommunication was in S. Paule and not in the rest Ansvvere He gaue onely direction in that as in all other matters whiche hee wrote of vnto them but if they had not throwne out the incestuous person he had remayned still vnexcommunicated for all that which S. Paule had sayd vnto them 2 Obiection Christ gaue Peter and euery Apostle power to binde and lose in earth and in heauen which interpreters expound by Matth. 18. 15. Ansvvere That power was of denouncinge Gods iudgements or pronouncing his mercie in preaching and not of this action they are expounded one by another because of the ratifying of them both in heauen alike 3 Obiection Paule did excommunicate Hymeneus and Philetus Ansvvere That is beeing moderator of the action he pronounced it not that he did it alone The same answere is to be made vnto the fathers as Ambrose c. who are said to excommunicate Therefore vpon these grounds of Scriptures Fathers Councels Emperours Lawes Histories newe writers and cleare light of reason I conclude that Christ hath prescribed vnto vs an exacte and perfect platforme of gouerning his church at all times and in all places which is this that there ought to be no ministers of the the word but pastors and teachers whiche are to be called by the people and ordained by the Eldership are of equall authoritie in their seuerall congregations muste with all faythfull diligence imploye themselues in the ministery of the worde and sacramentes that there are to be in euery congregation certaine elders whose office is to ouersee the behauiour of the people and assist their pastour in the gouernment of the church also Deacons who are to be imployed onely in receiuing and bestowing the liberallity and goods of the church to the reliefe of the poore and other necessary vses Lastly that there must be in euery congregation an eldershipp of pastour teacher if they can haue any and elders who are in common to see that the church be well gouerned not onely in maintayning the profession and practize of the worde in generall but also in admonishing reprehending or seperating frō the Lords supper them that walke offensiuely and lastly in excommunicating them that by no other meanes can be reclaimed So that all and euery gouernement contrary or besides this whether in part or in whol swarueth from that order which Christ hath set downe in his word and therefore is vnlawfull FINIS ERRATA Page 1. line 21. for 14. read 84. p. 4. l. 16. for Sa●edori● read Sanedrim p. 9. l. 11. for 43. read 43 8. l. 20 for ministerie read ministers p. 15. l. 3. blot out also p. 17. in the margent for Nepolitan read Nepotian pag. 22. l. 16. for Damascus read Damasus and so pag. 27. l. 24. pa. 23. l. 18. for the these p. 25. l. 2 for 6. read 26.