The 7. article conteineth 3. demaundes 1 Further I aske them what Church that is which hath brought forth out of her wombe so many noble personages of Martyrs Confessors Doctors Virgines and holy Sainctes of all sortes all which both they and we doe outwardly professe by the continuance of the Callendare which yet is vsed euery where to be Sainctes in heauen FVrther I aunswere you that all true Sainctes whether they were Patriarches Prophets Apostles Euāgelistes Martyrs Confessors Doctors Scholars Virgins wiues widowes married or vnmarried are all children of that Church in whose fellowship we reioyce to be and are our deare brethren and sistern begotten in Iesu Christ by the gospell and we all hold of one head Iesus Christ as members of his mysticall body We all beleue to be receaued into that glory that they are by the onely meane that they were that is by the mercie of God in Christ Iesus But as for the continuance of the Callendar we haue litle respect vnto it yea no regard at all to vse it either as a recorde or as a register of those whom we acknowledge to be Sainctes in heauen Let the Prince make you aunswere for the continuance of such callēders for we haue not to do with them Neuerthelesse because you speake of a Callendar that is vsed euery where you declare that you haue small experience in Callendars for euery cuntry hath them diuers in most dayes except holy dayes and in some cuntry Callendars such dayes are festiuall to those Saincts that haue not their names in Callendars of other cuntries yea it may be doubted whether they haue their names in the booke of life If you sawe a Bohemians Callendar perhaps if you shoulde see Iohn Hus and Ierom of Prage which your church condemned for heretikes and haue as solemne feastes in the Callender as Peter and Paule wherefore we acknowledge those to be Sainctes in deede not whose names are continued in the Callendars of men but are written in the booke of life of the Lambe that was slaine from the beginning of the worlde Apoc. 13. 2 And if it can be proued by any man of the Protestancy that these were either of the Protestants Congregation or beleefe when they were aliue IT is sufficiently proued against you of the Papistrie that all they whome we acknowledge to be Sainctes in heauen are members of the same mysticall bodie of Christ that we are and hold the onely foundation that we hold which is Iesus Christ and although some of them builded straw and stubble vpon the same foundation yet the Lorde hath not imputed it unto them But wheras the Patriarches Prophetes and Apostles were cheefe lightes and pillers of the church of Christ the daye is yet to come and euer shal be that all you of the Papistrie shal be able to charge vs with one pointe of our faith contrary to the doctrine of the Patriarches Prophetes and Apostles 3 Or canonized and allowed for Sainctes by the Protestantes Church when they were deade or by any other Church then I recant OVr Church doth take all them that shew the fruicts of a liuely faith to be Sainctes while they be aliue as well as after their death and we say with Dauid All my delight is in the Sainctes that are in the earth Psal. 16. and with S. Paule VVe labour to comprehend with all Sainctes what is the length breadth depth and heigth and to know the loue of Christ Ephes 3. Finally the scripture teacheth vs to call all them that are sanctified in the bloude of Christ and called to the felowship of the Gospell holy and Sainctes of God. 1. Cor. 1. Ephes 1. c. Wherefore your Popish church doth great iniury to the Sainctes of God first because she doth not so accompt them while they liue and secondly because she referreth the canonization of them only to the Pope who not for their holy life maketh them Sainctes but for the holy honger of golde as appeare by Pope Iuly 2. who woulde not canonize king Henry the sixt at the request of king Henry the seuenth vnder an vnreasonable summe of money If that summe of money had bene paide he shoulde haue bene a sainct though he had not deserued not for his vertue And because that summe of money was not paide he might not be canonized although his godlinesse neuer so much deserued Againe of what force your Canonization is to be esteemed we may learne by a fact of Pope Boniface the 8. who condemned digged vp and burned the bodie of Hermannus in Ferraria 30. yeares after his buriall who had bene worshipped for a sainct aboue 20. yeares before as witnesseth Platina and other Gregorie the seuenth canonized Pope Liberius which was an Arrian as S. Hieronym testifieth Moreouer if I shoulde likewise demande of you what Pope canonized Peter Paule and the rest of the Apostles yea most of the Martyrs of the primitiue Church you shall neuer be able to shew me either what Pope did it or that any Pope did it For seeing none may canonize but the Pope in your church and you can not proue that the Pope hath canonized the Apostles and cheefe Martyrs you can not proue that your church hath canonized the Apostles and principall Martyrs But it is manifest that your canonization is taken from the heathen Senate of Rome which chalenged authority to make Gods whome they them selues thought best And if I shoulde rippe vp the most parte of those Sainctes which haue bene canonically canonized by the Pope it were an easie matter to finde them heretikes traitors Necromancers Whoremongers and whores as you may reade in Bales Votaries aboundantly beleuing his reporte no farther than he alleageth his Author where you maye finde it Wherefore it were wisedome for you not to depend vpon the Pope his Canonization but vpon God his approbation and to recante The 8. article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 And because Christ as S. Paule sayeth hath established in his Church some Apostles some Prechers some Teachers and Doctors euen vntill his comming againe I aske the Protestant what Church that is which is able to shew proue the continuance and vse of the saide functions euer sence Christes time by plaine accompt of orderly Succession I Aunswere the Papist that Christ hath geuen to his Church some Apostles some Prophetes some Euangelistes some Pastors and Teachers Ephes 4. and 1. Cor. 12. And we are able to shew proue that we continue in that vnitie of faith and knowledge of the Sonne of God for which ende such offices were ordeyned But whereas you require that we should shew you the continuance of those functions by orderly succession from Christes his time vntill our dayes you declare how small skill you haue in vnderstanding the scriptures for the offices of Apostles Euangelistes and Prophetes were not appoincted to continue alwayes in the Church but for a time vntill the Gospell had taken roote in the worlde Moreouer whereas you requier an orderly
that the Apostles taught none other faith in steede of true Christiantie but that which we hold as we are readie to proue by the worde of God And at this daye the most parte of Europe is conuerted from Idolatrie heresie and Antichristianitie vnto the same true faith that we mainteine as in England Scotland Ireland France Germany Denmarke Suetia Bohemia Polonia by publike authoritie in Spaigne and Italie a great numbre vnder persecution and tyrannie Also of the Iewes no small numbre are conuerted to our religion since the rising vp of the Gospell in our dayes 3 Or any Church but the common Catholike Church to haue don that and I recant BEcause you meane by the common Catholike not the true Catholike but the popish church First I denie that euer the popish church conuerted any people to the true faith Secondly I denie that the popish church hath conuerted all nations to the profession of Christ For it is shewed before that the false Apostles and Arians conuerted some nations to the profession of Christes name but yet to false religion And it is also manifest by histories that the Grecians whome the papistes counte no parte of their church but schismatikes conuerted the Moscouites first of all vnto the profession of the name of Christ which yet continue in their religion being neither the true faith nor yet popish religion As for the popish church as it is certeine that it hath peruerted and corrupted all partes of the Latine or Westerne Church with Idolatry and false religion so it shal be harde for the papistes to proue that it hath conuerted any Nation from Gentility to the popish religion except some partes of Germanie and them by force of armes rather than by preaching and teaching as appeareth by the conuersion of Liuonia Anno Domini 1200. of Prussia Anno Domini 1254. and of Lithuania Anno Domini 1386. wherefore I conclude that seeing I haue shewed that our Church holding the true doctrine of the Apostles is that which conuerted all nations to true religion and that the popish church hath not conuerted any people to true religion nor all people to the profession of the name of Christ this chalenger whosoeuer he be do the recant The second article conteyneth 4. demandes 1 I aske of him what Church it was which hath induced the Christian people through the whole worlde to geue most humble credit in all points to the holy bookes of the Byble I Aunswere it was the Church of Christ and not the Popish church which hath commended the bookes of holy Scripture to be beleued of all true Christians where soeuer they be although it be the office of the holy Ghost to open the hartes of men and to forme them that they may beleue the scripture to be true like as it is the office of the scripture or worde of God to trie and examine whether it be the spirite of God that perswadeth vs to beleue any thing so the spirite beareth witnesse to the worde and the worde to the spirite As for the popish church it coulde not induce the Christian people to geue credit to the scripture in all pointes because she is contrarie to the scripture in many pointes and euen in the cheefest pointes of Christian Religion namely in pointes concerning the glorie of God and the saluation of mankinde geuing the glory of God to dead men and dumbe Images and denying the mercy of God pourchased by the onely sacrifice of Christes death to be the onely cause of mans saluation Finally seeing it is manifest by the aunswere to the first article that the popish church did not conuerte all nations to the profession of the Christian faith it is euident thereby that the popish church did not induce all them that are called Christians to geue credit to the bookes of the holy Bible as this chalenger woulde haue it to be thought 2 VVhat Church hath had the discerning seuering of them from other writinges of all sortes THe Church of Christ hath not an absolute authority to allow or refuse bookes of the scripture but a iudgment to discerne true writinge from counterfaicts the word of God of infallible verity from the writing of men which might erre this iudgement she hath not of her selfe but of the holy Ghost as for the popish Church it can not be said to haue this iudgemēt of discerning the scripture of God from other writings not only because she is so blind that she can not discerne betwene the Canonical bookes of the scripture from the Apocrypha writings as appereth by receauing the bookes of the Machabees Ecclesiasticus c. to be of equall authoritie with the bookes of the Law Psalmes c. but also because she is so presumptuous as to compel men to beleue that Customes and traditions writinges of doctors decrees of Popes and Councells are equall with the authoritie of God his worde yea are of force to alter and change the lawe of God and the institution of Christ set forth vnto vs in the scripture And although she boast that she receaueth all the bookes of scripture yet this proueth no more that she is the Church of Christ than was the churches of the Arrians Donatistes Nouatians Euthychans other heretikes which receiued the Bible as well as the Popish church 3 VVhat Church hath had the custodie of them and most safely hath preserued them for the necessary vse of God his people and from the corruption of aduersaries as well of Iewes as heretikes of all sortes THe prouidence of God hath alwayes preserued the Scripture both from the violence of tyrants from the falshoode of heretikes and hath neuer suffred the true Church to be destitute of the necessarie vse thereof But the popish church hath not kept the scripture for the necessary vse of the people which hath so kept it in an vnknowen tongue that the people coulde haue no vse much lesse the necessary vse thereof wherefore if this be a note of the Catholike Church to kepe the worde of God for the necessarie vse of God his people it is plaine that the popish church is not the Catholike Church which hath kept the scripture so that God his people coulde haue no vse thereof And if the only custodie of the scripture from corruption of heretikes be a sure note of the Church why is not the Greeke Church the Catholike Church which vnto this day hath kept the scripture as safely as the popish church why are not other Estern Churches of Asia which neuer acknowledged the Pope or popish religion true Churches which likewise haue preserued the scripture as we haue seen of late that the newe Testament is printed in the Syrian tongue at themperours charges for the encrease of Christian faith among them And finally why are not the Iewes the Catholike Church which haue kept the old Testament in Hebrue more faithfully than euer the Papistes And because they boast of safe preseruing of the scriptures
true Church better than the honorable name of Catholike or more condemne them to be out of Christes church thā that not only the Christiā worlde geueth it not to them but they in a name do refuse the same them selues then do I recant HEre you bewraye your selfe euidently and acknowledge that we doe not sclaunder you when we say you boast onely of the Catholike church For you declare plainely that you haue no better argument then the very name of the Catholike Church to proue that you be the Catholike Church if this be the best argument all the rest is litle worth For if the onely name of an honest man is enough to proue an honest man many a knaue may proue him selfe an honest man and if the very name of learning make a learned man many an asse may proue him selfe to be a learned man or if the name of a good Christian proue a man to be a good Christian euery hypocrite may proue him selfe a good Christian Likewise if you haue no greater argument that can more condemne vs then that we are not called the Catholike Church then can you no more condemne vs then Christ and his Apostles that were not onely not called the true Church but also were called heretikes deceiuers by the people of the Iewes which were as rightly called God his people as they that giue you the name of Catholike Church are called the Christian world It is well you haue nothing better to proue your Church then the honorable name of Catholike nor any thing more to condēne our Church then that we are not called Catholike and yet we haue as many nations and more then you haue that by publike authoritie call vs Catholikes and you heretikes although you most shamefully sclaunder vs that we doe refuse the name being offered vnto vs Seeing you boast so much of the name Catholike you shall heare what some of the old writers iudged thereof Chrysostome in an homelie that he writeth of Adam and Eue in the later ende hath these words after he hath tolde them that he hath no neede to repeate such depe questions as those men haue handled which haue fought against heretikes Satis sufficere credimus quicquid secūdum praedictas regulas Apostolica scripta nos docuerunt vt prorsus opinemur Catholicum quod apparuerit praefixis sententijs esse contrarium that is we beleue that what so euer the Apostles haue taught vs according to the foresayd rules is sufficient in so much that in no wise we thinke that to be Catholike which shall appeare to be contrary to the sentences before determined By this you may see that Chrysostome thought it not sufficient to haue the name of Catholike for he iudged nothing to be Catholike in deede that was contrary to the rule groūded in the writings of the Apostles Wherfore how so euer you boast of the honorable name of Catholike except you can proue that your opinions agree with the Scripture they are not Catholike in deede by Chrysostomes iudgement S. Augustine also in his booke de Genese ad literam imperfecto cap. 1. speaking of the Catholike faith sayth This is an article thereof that we should beleue Constitutam ab eo matrem Ecclesiam quae Catholica dicitur ex eo quia vniuersaliter perfecta est in nullo claudicat per totum orbem diffusa est That he hath appoynted a mother Church which is called Catholike of this because it is vniuersally perfect halteth in nothing and is dispersed ouer all the worlde S. Augustine here is not content that the Church be onely called Catholike but sheweth when it is that which it is called and therefore the popish Church not being vniuersally perfect as most Papists will confesse that many thinges in their church haue neede of reformation halting in many thinges from the truth of God his worde neither yet being dispersed ouer all the world but conteyned in a corner of Europa is not by S. Augustines rule the Catholike Church Furthermore S. Augustine cōtra Epistolam Fundamēti cap. 4. against the Manichees plainely declareth how farre forth not onely the name of Catholike but also how farre vniuersally consent succession antiquitie are to be allowed Vt ergo hanc omittam sapientiam c. Therefore to omitte this wisedom which you do beleue to be in the Catholike Church there be many other things which may hold me most righteously in her bosome The cōsent of people and nations holdeth me the authoritie begun with miracles nourished with hope encreased with charitie confirmed by antiquitie doth hold me The succession of Priestes from the very seate of Peter the Apostle vnto whom our Lord after his resurrection committed his sheepe to be fedde euen vnto this present bishopricke doth hold me Last of all that very name of Catholike doth hold me which name not without a cause this Church alone hath so obteyned among so many heresies that wheras all heretiks would be called Catholikes yet when a stranger shall aske where men meete at the Catholike Church none of the heretikes dare shew him either their principall temple or house All this you will say maketh exceeding much for vs yea but heare that which followeth Apud vos autem vbi nihil horum est quod me inuitet ac teneat sola personat veritatis pollicitatio quae quidem si tam manifesta monstratur vt in dubium venire non possit proponenda est omnibus illis rebus quibus in Catholica teneor that is But among you where there is none of these thinges that may prouoke or holde me there soundeth the onely promise of truth which if it be shewed so manifest that it can not come in doubt is to be preferred before all those thinges by which I am holden in a Catholike Church By this you may plainly see that though consent antiquitie succession and the name of Catholike be good confirmation when they are ioyned with the truth yet when a truth is seuered from them it is more to be regarded then they all it is truth that maketh Catholike to be estemed and not Catholike that giueth authoritie to truth Wherefore seeing it were better to proue your Church to be Catholike then to boast that it is so called to disproue our Church so to be then to say it is not so called The best way for you is to recant The 21. article conteyneth but one demande 1 Moreouer I aske of the Protestants whether in that time in which they holde the true church to haue bene hidden or lost the people that learned this article of their Creede I beleue the Catholike church was bounde to goe from that church which they sawe and taught them both the article and all other thinges touching their faith and by which they were Christened and receyned all other sacraments and commodities of saluation whether they were bounde I say to beleue this vnknowen and close Congregation which they coulde
rather to seeke her in his words which is the Truth and best knoweth his owne body So the question is at this daye betwen the Papistes and vs where the church is let vs seeke in God his worde there we shall easily finde her To the same intent he speaketh in the third fiueth and sixtenth Chapters of the same treatise Furthermore that he woulde haue heretikes confuted onely by the scriptures he sheweth likewise in many places of his workes for writing against Maximinus the Arian lib. 3. cap. 14. a place commonly and often cited he sayeth but nowe neither must I preiudicially bring forthe the Councell of Nice nor then the Councell of Arimine for neither am I bounden to the authoritie of the one nor you of the other but let matter with matter cause with cause reason with reason contend by authoritie of the scriptures not proper to any but indifferent witnesses to both partes If Augustine would not oppresse the Arrians by the authoritie of the Nicene Councell which was the first and the best generall Councell that euer was but only by the scriptures how much lesse woulde he charge them with other authorities that the Papistes alleage beside the authoritie of holy scriptures And in his booke De Vnitate Ecclesiae against the Donatistes the 16 chapter Sed vtrū ipsi Ecclesiam teneant non nisi diuinarum scripturarum Canonicis libris ostendant quia nec nos c. But whether they holde the church or no let them shew none other wise but by the canonicall bookes of holy Scripture for we our selues doe not say that men ought to beleue vs that we are in the Church because we holde that Church which Optatus of Mileuitum or Ambrose of Millayn or innumerable other Byshops of our communion haue commended to vs or because it is set forth by the Councels of our felowe byshops or because so many myracles of hearing requests or healinges are don in the holy places which our fellowship doth frequent in the whole worlde so that the bodies of Martyrs which were hidden so many yeares which thinge if they will aske they may heare of many were reuealed vnto Ambrose and that at the same bodies one that had bene many yeares blinde very well knowen in the citie of Millayn receyued his eyes and eye sight either because this man dreamed or that man was rauished in the spirite and hearde a voice that he should not ioyne himselfe to Donatus or that he shoulde departe from the faction of Donatus for when soeuer such thinges are don in the Catholike Church they are to be allowed because they are don in the Catholike church but the church it selfe is not therfore proued to be Catholike because these thinges are done in it By this Augustine declareth first that heretikes must be confuted onely by the scriptures and secondly that neither Councells succession of byshops vniuersality miracles visions dreames nor reuelations are the notes to trie the Catholike church but onely the scriptures Moreouer in his booke De Pastoribus cap. 14. Quaerit infirmus Ecclesiam c. A weake person seeketh the Church he wandreth and seeketh the church what sayest you The church is of Donatus side Enquire for the shepheards voice Reade me this out of some Prophet reade me this out of some Psalme rehearse me it out of the lawe rehearse it out of the Gospell rehearse it out of the Apostle out of them do I rehearse the Church dispersed ouer all the worlde And a litle after Tu accusas non Euangelium c. Thou accusest not the Gospell thou accusest not the Prophet not the Apostle of whome this voyce speaketh to me I beleue him other I beleue not But thou wilt bring forth decrees I will also bring forth decrees shoulde I beleue thine beleue thou mine likewise I beleue not thine neither do thou beleue mine then let mens writings be layd away and let Gods worde sounde betwen vs bring me one place of scripture for Donatus side c. These places maye sufficiently declare by what meanes this doctor thought the Church shoulde ouerthrowe heresies namely by the worde of God onely which thing also Leo the first byshop of Rome in his epist. 10. ad Fabianum contra Eutychen plainely confesseth saying Sed in hanc insipientiam cadunt qui cum ad cognoscendam veritatem c. But those men fal into this foly which when they are hindred by any doubt to knowe the trueth haue not recourse to the voyces of the Prophets not to the writings of the Apostles not to the authoritie of the Gospell but to them selues And therefore they become maisters of error because they haue not bene schollers of trueth Of the same iudgement was the whole Councell of Constantinople the sixt as appeare Actione 18. Si igitur omnes simpliciter c. Therefore if all men from the beginning woulde haue simply and without subtiltie taken vpon them the preaching of the Gospell and haue bene content with the constitutions of the Apostles suerly matters shoulde haue bene well and in good case neither shoulde painefull contention haue bene exercised against the authors of heresies nor against the fauorers of priests Here the Councell confesseth that the heretikes and schismatikes grow so fast because they were not beaten downe by preaching of the Gospell and authority of the scriptures Thus I haue declared by example and authority of these Fathers that the true Church of Christ hath conuicted all heretikes onely by the scripture 2 And what Church it was that hath alwayes stande still and stedfast whilest all other Congregations as well of Arrians as Anabaptistes Aerians Nouatians Vigilantians Iouinians and the rest haue decaied THe true Church of Christ hath alwayes stoode stedfast and vnseparable from Christ her heade when all heretikes haue bene and shal be confounded But the true Church hath not alwaies florished in wordly peace and tranquilitie for vntill the tyme of Constantine the great which was Anno Dom. 339. the Church had small rest from cruell persecution in most places and soone after againe vnder the Emperors Constantius Constans and Valons it was greatly infected with the heresie of Arius what time also Tiberius Bishop of Rome was infected with the same heresie After that when Iulianus the Apostata was Emperor the temples of Idolls were opened and gentilitie againe restored so that the Church suffered great detriment To be short when the barbarous Goathes Vandales Alanes and other Idolatrous or heretical nations destroyed the Empire the Church of God suffered a great Ecclipse But when Mahomet in the East Antichrist the Pope in the West seduced the world with most detestable heresie then was fulfilled that which was reuealed to S. Iohn in the 12. of the Apocalyps the woman clothed with the Sonne which you your self confesse to be the Church was so persecuted by the Dragon that she fled into the wildernes there to remaine a long season Where she hath not decayed but ben always