Selected quad for the lemma: authority_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
authority_n	apostle_n	church_n	minister_n	2,916	5	6.7721	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A78132	A defence of the lavvfulnesse of baptizing infants. As also of the present baptisme, as it hath continued in the severall ages of the world, from John Baptist the first beginner thereof. In way of answer to something written by Iohn Spilsberie against the same.	Barbon, Praisegod, 1596?-1679.	1645 (1645)	Wing B749; Thomason E270_12; ESTC R212355	60,304	74

matter and clean out in this first Notion Second Notion And for succession of truth truth of Ordinances you must understand It comes now by the promise of God and faith of his people whom he as aforesaid hath taken out of the world to the fellowship of the Gospel Answ Setting aside succession and in stead thereof putting in continuation What can be more right then this though not in J. S. his sense The truth of Ordinances continues by vertue of Gods promise made to his people they continuing to beleeve in him and not forgetting his name though many times greatly failing against him as of old yet the truth of Ordinances continue namely the Church and Baptisme now as the Church and Circumcision did of old and this by the promise of God J. S. hath no such sense as this but some inward familisticall sense of inward faith and Gods promise to such secret beleevers which he is never able to make out any such thing that the truth of Ordinances depends upon them in regard of continuation by vertee of the promise of God to them in such a secret way Third Notion To whom the Ordinances of Christ stand only by succession of faith What faith outward or inward and not of persons What faith severed from persons Answ I would fain know what any rationall man can make of this either in it self or as it hath relation to what is before declared Fourth Notion For the same power the Apostles had in former time for direction in godlinesse the Scriptures have in the hand of Christ as the head of the Church which make up but one body 1 Cor. 12. 12. Answ such power for direction in godlinesse the Scriptures had of old when the Apostles lived Some other things J. S. aimeth at but the truth prevaileth and the words he here useth will nothing avail namely of the Scriptures in the hand of Christ joyned with the Church It s worth observing how the Church is here couched just after the manner of the Babylonians that pretend their Church is inspired with the Holy Ghost and cannot erre for Christ the head is in Heaven and hath left his Word for direction in godlinesse for his Church to take heed unto Now the holy Apostles had authority to act Ordinances according to Christs command they were to preach pray break bread and baptize the Scriptures were not sent neither act they any thing as before So as in J. S. his sense it is utterly untrue that the Scriptures in the hand of Christ joyned with the body have the same power to act Ordinances as the Apostles had Notion fift and last So as what the Apostles and Church together might do in acting Ordinances you must understand the same may the head and body together with the Scriptures do now Reader observe how J. S. coucheth subtilly his unbaptized Church betwixt Christ and the Scriptures so as Christ being in heaven and the Scriptures only directive the whole matter for action will fall into the hands of the Church A contrivance as fine as the Papist found out when they were sore put to it by John Hus and the Bohemians and not able to defend themselves and their courses against the truth they invented and abetted this That holy Church could not erre Secondly observe how I. S. quitteth two of these three namely the head and body and concludeth laying all the stresse upon the Scriptures and so in effect saith nothing at all the Scriptures being only directive for saith he the Scriptures have the same whereas he should have said the head and body with the Scriptures have it Thirdly observe what a preposterous conjunction I. S. maketh of three in the matter of fact one of which to wit Christ the head is in Heaven who though he hath fulnesse of power acts not here below but in a providenciall and ministeriall way and the like The Church the second Christs wife is in all things to be obedient to Christ her husband his will and pleasure contained in the Scripture the Scriptures they act not but only direct where is I. S. now just where he was at the first and no further Fourthly this is utterly untrue which he concludeth that what the Church and the Apostles the Ministers of the Churches might do that the Scriptures he quitteth the head and body as before may do Now what might not the Church and the Apostles do in ordinances and administration orderly according to God what can the Scriptures act truly nothing at all their authority is only directive I suppose any one may see how far out I. S. is in these conceits In the close he is up again with revelation which happily if he did study and cleave unto would stand him in more stead then the Scriptures that are so helplesse to him in his cause CHAP. IV. Containing a defence of the opinion of them that hold no right or orderly Ministeriall Church without or before Baptisme I. S. Having ended his former matter against the Churches continuance and likewise the continuance of Baptisme under the popish defection proceeds saying And so we come to such as will have no Church before Baptisme and so make Baptisme the form of the Church Answ Who these such are that he intendeth I cannot tell they are either some of his own way or some other some of his own way do indeed so hold that Baptisme constitutes or is the form of the Church Did I think he intended them I should leave them to try it out and should not intermeddle with the strife I shall only as the matter relates to them shew my thoughts briefly namely that they will be too hard for J. S. in the tenent he himself being of their belief but that he is not true to his owne principle otherwise how should he without Schisme and being a Schismatick leave the reformed and separated Churches and set up another of his own as he hath done only he accounteth them no Churches of Christ and what is the reason he doth so nothing but his Baptisme is wanting so as that must be the form that gives being for otherwise They are companies of Saints professing faith in the righteousnesse of Christ and living accordingly that is in holynesse of life This he describeth to be the matter and the form he declareth to be their being united and knit together in one fellowship or orderly body and that is the Covenant of grace by which God becomes not visibly as he unawars saith but in an outward way of relation a God unto them and they become visibly his people Now what is there to hinder J. S. from being a Schismatick by his own ground for surely nothing hinders those Churches which he forsaketh and disclaimeth as no Churches of Christ by all or any thing that in his description of the matter or form of the Church by him set down can be found and let him take in his five Reasons to help him if he

very dark and smoakie this hee will doe by shewing the manner of the aforesaid Constitution in the causes of it How will he doe it in pag. 40. by saying over again what he had said again and again before namely that the Scriptures remaining in the place of the Apostles for us to have recourse unto and serve as the mouth of Christ Alas this is but a poore clearing for this is onely in a directive way as before I noted And what then The Scriptures being so truly nothing at all Yes saith he as the Apostles did before the Scriptures were written To which I say there were Scriptures before the Apostles to which the Apostles had an eye and regard and directed others to doe the like The holy Apostles they acted Ordinances of Religion preaching breaking bread and baptizing The Scripture acts nothing neither can they surely Act. 2. 42. this is a poore clearing we will minde the Scriptures hee here quoteth Matth. 28. 20. 2 Pet. 19. 20 21. Rom. 10. 6 7 8. In answer I will not tire my selfe and the Reader certainly no man can imagine any thing more then direction from that full and perfect rule of the Scriptures as gatherable from those places of Scripture which as before I said none deny let him but call to mind what he said of an orderly way which God requireth and how that is as he conceiveth by the Church and then let him tell mee if hee can to what purpose these Scriptures are or that which followeth that as the Lords people conferred with the Prophets and Apostles about their great affaires so have the Lords people now Moses and the Prophets Christ and his Apostles in their writings as Luk. 16. 29. And what then truly nothing it is but for direction as before nor yet that which further followeth in this clearing matter of the constituting causes which are saith he with the spirit of life in them as effectuall as their personall presence if not more Answ Stay a while the matter is sure otherwise for this effectuallnesse if it were granted is but directive But it is not wholly granted for that the Apostles were men inspired and sent of God to declare his will they were a saving meanes of good to men and God in his good pleasure as a double mercy gave his Word and sent his Apostles and Prophets sure I take it it must needs follow that if the Scriptures were as effectuall without the Apostles and rather more then with them then God gave the Apostles in vaine and the Churches were great losers by their personall presence but the truth is otherwise as is most manifest The Scripture with the Spirit of life in them act nothing but onely direct and furnish men how to act according to the will of God in an orderly way according to what hee holdeth For proofe of what before he affirmed of the effectualnesse of the Scripture he quoteth Joh. 6. 62. 2 Pet. 1. 18 19. Revel 11. 3 5 11. Answ That in John speaketh of Christ ascending where he was before how this should prove any thing is beyond my thoughts I will say nothing but leave the Reader to judge of it That place of Peter is of the sure direction of the Word in dark and our doing well to take heed to it That in the Revelation is of the two witnesses a thing too mysterious to be a proofe in this case I suppose J. S. will not hold himselfe to be one of those witnesses nor he with others of his way to be both those witnesses there spoken of I will say no more but leave the Reader to judge whether these Scriptures doe prove that the holy Scriptures with the Spirit of life in them as he is pleased to say are in stead of the Apostles personally sent of God with power to act ordinances or whether they in the case of the Ordinances dispensing in an orderly way are as much or more effectuall then the Apostles personally that were sent of Christ for that end who did not send the Scriptures as in the case of the Eunuch but Philip and in the case of Cornelius Peter as in those and the like instances may be seen He proceedeth and in full concluding of this matter saith and thus all succession what phrase have we here from the beginning came to Christ Of what speakes hee now of Ordinances I had thought all Ordinances had ever proceeded from him he being ever the Lord of the Church and sure he meaneth the Ordinances namely those ordained of old under Abraham and Moses and the Prophets these lasted continued to the coming of Christ into the world the substance indeed of those shadows so his sense may be good From Christ he saith to the Apostles from the Apostles to the Scriptures This is pure non-sense if I mistake not and beside I aske him where is that orderly way he told us of and how is the case now according to 1 Cor. 3. by him alleadged for the Authority of an unbaptized Church Doth he not by this discent seclude them from all rather then inright them to any such authorite happily he will say Oh from the Scriptures to us very good But first how from Christ to the Apostles Did Christ our Lord preferre the Apostles before his beloved Spouse for whom he gave himselfe I alwayes took the Apostles as the servants of the Church for Christs sake Secondly did the Ordinances 2 Cor. 4. 5. proceed from Christ to the persons of the Apostles or to their office as Apostles So as when they in regard either of person or office left the world it descended to the Scripture certainly the right and interest of the Scriptures was the same before the death and cessation of the Apostles as after and the Scriptures gained no legacie by such friends unlesse a sealing to the truth and full authority of their direction so from the Scriptures to us a wonderfull matter a very fair Ring from the Scriptures to the Scriptures and so to us just nothing but a shew of words without matter Further he saith That all succession is now spirituall So it seemeth he holdeth it was carnall before when it was from Abraham to Moses from Moses to Christ and the Apostles and so to the Scriptures and now it is from the Scriptures to us it is spirituall a rare conceit He saith it is now according to faith whether he mean faith of miracles or what else is hard to say but it mattereth not much for he is beside the Scriptures and walking in some other field It followeth not saith he the personall succession of any but onely the Word of God Answ Sure J. S. speaketh in a strange tongue he is never able to make out his sense that succession follows the Word the Word being immoveable and that which abideth for ever and hath no place for succession though he thus speaketh he know not what And the word of God he saith

and his pure service as those of the ten Tribes that went from Israel to Judah had other Priests and Ministers of the Law and service of God and a pure way of serving of God onely that of circumcision they would continue that though according to his conceit in the case of Baptisme it came from the two Calves What would he have said or thought of it in this case I would faine know If they did well it is good for us to imitate them in a like case 2. I say as before more fully I have shewed that this Church and Ordinances are but new in regard of purity the other being corrupt so all this he calleth new is not like their new raising of the Church and Ordinances as if those before had lost their being and were not at all In this their case which he so excepteth against there is expresse warrant 2 Thes 2. 15. keep the Ordinances as they were delivered unto you that is purely 3. Baptized persons in the case of their returne from idollwayes and Apostacie to the pure service of God are to look after Baptisme no otherwise then circumcised Jewes did in the like case when they returned unto the Lord Ezek. 44. 9. They were not to circumcise themselves or be circumcised again yet the Heather comming along with them they must be circumcised In like manner Gods people comming out of Babylon according to the call of God Rev. 18. 4. are not required to be again baptized though the Jewes and other Heathen that imbrace the faith of Christ are required to doe it which I would wish I. S. and those of his way to consider of 4. For the continuation of the Church and Baptisme the outward qualification of the matter the Scriptures fully give witnesse unto as before is shewed so as is no need of beginning them a new in any sense unlesse of purity but other Ordinances are by negligence laid by and out of use something in the room of them and so are by the Church to be restored to their places when the Church is purged and made pure Lastly for this of Baptisme comming through the hands of Pope Jone and from the man of sin It is a false and scandalous reproach it cometh no more through the hands of Pope Jone and the man of sin then the holy Scriptures did or then Circumcision did through the hands of the two Galves of old J. S. may be ashamed so to reproch Gods holy Ordinance by his good pleasure preserved to this day I would wish him to call to mind his complaint story before And now in regard he is up with Pope Ione again to disgrace the truth and those that stand for it whereby to make persons afraid and do they know not what which after they undo again and so Gal. 2. 18. make themselves every way trespassers by destroying what they before built I will note some particulars wherein those of his way shake hands with Pope Ioane and the man of sin and leave the Reader to judge who may be most justly taxed for affinity with Pope Jone the reformed or separated Churches or those of the new way of Baptisme First those of that way of Baptisme hold generall or universall redemption with the man of sin and Pope Jone 2. Free-will 3. Falling from grace 4. Conditionall Election that men may be saved if they will themselves 5. They hold an universall Church and generall ministery with power universall 6. That Antichrist is not yet come and shall be a particular man and shall continue but three years c. 7. They hold with Pope Jone and accordingly censure all the reformed and separated Churches for meer Schismaticks 8. They hold with Pope Jone dipping in Baptisme I do not say that J. S. or all of that way hold all these particulars but this I am sure that all these are held by persons in that way in practice they also shake hands for as the man of sin hath made a Church so they also have made a Church onely the man of sin and Pope Jone have succeeded better in their work for they have made a Church of a large structure whereas theirs is yet but a little Terret of the like nature 2. As Pope Joane hath sent out her messengers to preach and baptize namely the Friers and others the Moors and Indians so in like manner these send out their messengers to preach and baptize also 3. As Pope Jone and the man of sin give authority to their instruments and ministers to act things without the cognizance of the Scriptures so in like kinde do they namely authorizing an unbaptized person to baptize others In this and one thing more they exceed in irrationalnesse Pope Ione to wit of giving mission to unbaptized persons to baptize 2. In Baptizing them that were before baptized I will forbear to adde other particulars Now let them shew if they can any such doctrines held or courses taken by the separated or rightly reformed Churches in way of affinity with Pope Jone and the man of sin I say no more but leave the Reader to judge In the end of this Sexion he uttereth divers high Notions so undigested unsound and contradictorie as a man that should weigh them could not but wonder First he saith that we are to know that the truth depends not upon Churches nor any mortall creature but onely upon the immortall God who by his Word and Spirit reveals the same when and to whom he pleases This is the first of his wonderfull Notions which we are to know that the truth of Ordinances and right serving God of which is our question depends not upon Churches Where then is J. S. his orderly way he proposed according to God by the Church and her assignement of one or two of her members to begin Baptisme being lost c. Secondly This that he would have us to know is directly contrary to that which God teacheth us to know in his Word 1 Tim. 3. 15. The Church of the living God God himself saith is the pillar and ground of truth that is of Religion and divine Ordinances as we said before Thirdly If I. S. say he do not mean truth of Ordinances truly he is then beside the matter in hand deceiving and being deceived Fourthly If he mean as in the former is specied with whom then doth he contend Do not all confesse the truth as Doctrinall to have God for the Authour of it and to depend on him What high words doth he here use to amaze the Reader as The truth depends not upon any mortall man Who ever held so But upon the Immortall God Who ever held otherwise But this immortall God reveales the same by his Word and Spirit What doth God reveal new Ordinances of Religion by his Word and Spirit Sure this is some dark non-sense He questionlesse meaneth some other thing What Revelation he herein intendeth is not hard to guesse however he is beside the