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A62452 A discourse of the forbearance or the penalties which a due reformation requires by H. Thorndike ... Thorndike, Herbert, 1598-1672. 1670 (1670) Wing T1044; ESTC R1719 71,571 188

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Ordination is void Surely S. Paul that commands Christians to be without offense to the Jews and Gentiles as well as to the Church commands them also to be without offense to Papists And will not we have those that would be inabled to consecrate the Eucharist by such a Law to shew us how to satisfie the Papists that such Orders are good At least those that by their sufferings have preserved Ordination by Bishops Let them at least be satisfied of the Validity of Ordination without Bishops At least let no man impose upon them that they cannot yield the Forbearance which S. Paul requires for tender Consciences unless they receive the Sacrament consecrated by Lay-men That is by those whose Ordination they believe to be utterly void CHAP. XV. That the Orders of the Reformed Churches are not void because these are NOw I am to look an Objection in the face which at a distance seems to admit of no Answer but if it be a little considered will appear to have neither Reason nor Religion at the bottom of it It is said that hereby we shall make void the Ordinations of the Reformed Churches of France and others Reformed according to Calvin And so make them no Churches Here we agree that it was necessary for the French as well as for our selves to Reform themselves That it was necessary for all to Reform themselves unto the Form of the Primitive Catholick Church I say not we do agree I say that till we do agree there remains no hope of Unity because no Rule for Reformation in the Church But to the Objection Who hath the Conscience to think or the Face to say that if Ordinations made by Presbyters against their Bishops be void Then Ordinations made by Presbyters where they could not be had by Bishops are void For that is the difference of the Cases It is manifest that the Bishops of this Church when they Ordain Presbyters Ordain them to Minister their Office according to the Laws That is under their Bishops And can any man imagine that hereby they give them Power to Ordain others to Minister their Office by what Laws they please themselves And had the French demanded of their Bishops to Ordain them Presbyters that should Minister their Office according to the Reformation does any man think they would have done it So the necessity of Reforming which we all agree in made the Ordinations of the Reformed Churches The Pride and Presumption which causeth all Heresie and Schism usurping Authority never received made the Ordinations of our Presbyters And shall they be as valid as those All that can be questioned is how it may appear that it was not of choice but of necessity that they imbraced that way of setling and propagating their Reformation which they imbraced And for that we have sufficient Presumption from the Albigenses Who secretly Reforming themselves under the See of Rome did certainly do it by the Authority of Bishops who propagated their Order by Ordinations This may be proved by other testimonies if need be But it is sufficient that the Case of the Bohemians is so well known They having resolved exactly to Reform themselves and having chosen the Persons whom they would have for their Bishops were at a stand how to compass their succession from the Apostles by having them Ordained by Bishops In this nonplus they understood that there were in Austria of the Albigenses that kept secret Communion among themselves under their Bishops notwithstanding that publickly to avoid the Laws they went to Mass To them they sent their Bishops elect protesting against their dissembling but desiring Ordination for their Bishops which thus were propagated And this may well seem to be the Reason why they that Reformed in the Empire according to Luther in the name of whom Melancthon hath offered to be subject to their own Bishops admitting the Reformation set up such a Form of Episcopacy as they could of themselves For they had cause to think that the Bohemians had not advantaged themselves enough by that Ordination which they had been able to procure For it is to be noted that they the Bohemians had sent all over the World to learn how to get such Ordination as might authorize their Ministry according to the Reformation which they pretended And are not we hereupon to presume that the French by these degrees finding a necessity of balking the Authority of the Episcopacy which they were under did think themselves thereupon free to cast themselves into that Form which they use For if it be said That by this time they had profited beyond their Predecessors in discovering the Whore of Babylon that they found Episcopacy to be the Body of Antichrist and therefore renounced it It will appear by many Reasons that this cannot serve the turn First how can the common sense of men endure to believe that the Pope is Antichrist by reason of that Greatness which it is certain and evident that he hath attained by Usurping the Rights of his inferiour Bishops And yet those inferiour Bishops be the Body of Antichrist by suffering those Usurpations which they cannot help Secondly it is manifest that they who should hold this Plea could not pretend by virtue of their Orders received from the Bishops of this Church to Ordain Presbyters Unless they would say that they may have their Authority from Antichrist This Plea therefore must remain for the Independents to authorize them that think themselves in the State of Grace before they are members of the Church to make their their Congregations Churches and Usurp the Authority of Apostles in Ordaining their own Ministers Lastly it appeareth sufficiently that very many learned and religious persons of those Churches have not only approved the Episcopacy here setled But have wished the benefit of it to themselves Whereby it is manifest that those Churches cannot owne this Reason when another so far from it is owned by their principal Members I have another Reason to alledge which weighs as much with me as all these And that is the Communion which hath always been used between this Church and the Reformed Churches For should they hold Communion with us and yet think our Ordinations authorized by Antichrist how could they expect to be believed so grosly contradicting themselves And therefore though I must not take upon me either to justifie or to condemn their Ordinations Averring on one side that they are not according to Rule Seeing on the other side that they are owned by my Superiors yet I must acknowledge that there are very great Reasons to hope and to presume that God accepteth of their Ordinations though not made according to Rule In consideration of the necessity that drove them to it and of the Reformation which they were used to propagate Whereas those that Vsurp the Power of the Keys and the Consecrating of the Eucharist by virtue of Ordinations made in despite of those Bishops from whom they have all the Authority which
these terms of our Reformation what shall we plead with a good Conscience to bring Recusants to Church It will be said that the Pope is Antichrist and the Church of Rome all I Idolaters that there can be no question of abandoning Idolatry and Antichrist But is there no question of holding the true Faith of continuing a true Church parting with Idolatry and Antichrist Were Papists Idolaters and the Pope Antichrist a thousand times the Reason and the Rule of Reforming the Church would be where it is and will require that it be so Reformed as to continue a Member of one Catholick Church as it was unreformed saving the Unity which cannot be held without the consent of those that will not be reformed Not that I grant the pretense of Idolatry and Antichrist Or that I intend to dispute against it at present being a question too large to be voided by so short a Discourse as this But that to ground our Reformation and Salvation upon the interpretation of Prophesies is a thing without the compass of Reason to do And also a departure from that Plea upon which our Reformation is hitherto stated Having therefore placed my business and spent my time in considering the Controversies which the Reformation hath occasioned Because the Disputes we have among our selves concern nothing but how far we are to depart from the Church of Rome I thought my self tyed in Conscience to publish the Resolution I had attained both under the danger that might be expected from the late Usurpation and at His Majesties happy return So that the publishing of my Opinion in the Case at this time in dispute is but a declaration of the consequences that have ensued because a palliative cure hath not served the turn If they that break Unity in the Church have liberty to plead for their their Conventicles which they Vsurp against Law why should not my Opinion expect a favourable Audience Protesting before God that how advantagious soever I think it to the Salvation of Souls yet I do not desire that it should take place but by the free Act of this Church and Kingdom CHAP. III. That the Rule of Reformation is the Catholick Church IN the first place therefore I hold my self bound in Conscience upon this occasion freely to declare to my Superiours That there is no Power in this Church and Kingdom to reform it self in matter of Religion but only by that Form and to that Form which may appear to have been held by the whole Primitive Church before the Corruption came in which we pretend to Reform And the reason hereof is unanswerable being immediately grounded upon the Article of our Creed whereby we profess to believe one Catholick and Apostolick Church For if there be such a thing in the world then must there be one Catholick Faith the Profession whereof is the condition of Communion with it And one and the same Laws the violating whereof is the forfeiture of the same And here I crave leave to call all Canons all Customs of the Church whether concerning the Rites of Gods Service or other Observations whether delivered in writing or received by silent Vse and Practice by one and the same general name of Laws of the Church Only that I may be the better understood Being therefore well assured that the Church cannot be Catholick but it needs must be Visible Because it cannot be Catholick till it may be Visibly distinguished from Heretick and Schismatick both I must also infer that it can never be Visible till it become Catholick That is the only way to justifie that which hath been always pretended that this Church is the same that it was before Luthers time For as the Church had never been Catholick had it been confined to one Nation as the Synagogue was So I do believe that it had never been called Catholick had there not been Heresies and Schisms before it was so called It had been One Church of all Nations by virtue of the Conversion of the Gentiles When Heresies sprung up as Tares among the Corn then was it called Catholick for distinctions sake It was visible that the true Faith was spread all over Heresies and Schisms prevailed but here and there where they were raised So if an Heretick or Schismatick were asked the way to the Catholick Church he durst not have shewed the way to his own saith S. Austin Nor is it a question to be asked a Christian why the true Church should be Catholick The answer being so obvious that it was Aposiolick Say why the Faith preached by the Apostles prevailed why the Communion setled by their Authority whereas Heresies and Schisms were known but here and there and you have said why the True Church was Catholick We that profess the Reformation are agreed that this provision of Gods goodness is no Promise of God against mans malice That corruption may become Catholick for the present Age though not from the Apostles This is the common ground of Reforming the Church If the measure and bounds which it limiteth were also common all our divisions were at an end Nor can any private Spirit expounding the Scripture without these bounds derogate from it It is a sufficient prejudice against any Interpretation of Scripture that it standeth not with the Faith and with the Laws of the Primitive Church S. Paul challengeth the prophets at Corinth to shew themselves Spiritual men by submitting to his Orders Having said that the Spirits of the Prophets are subject to the Prophets and inferring that all their Spirits are to be subject to his being an Apostle 1 Cor. XIV 32 36 37. The same is the Case to the Worlds end the promise of our Lord Behold I am with you to the worlds end being made to the Apostles and to all that should be Christs Disciples and learn of the Apostles to do all that he hath commanded Mat. XXVIII 19 20. For who can think he continueth in the Doctrine of the Apostles departing from their Authority in any thing subject to their Authority Or what is not subject to their Authority excepting that which our Lord had commanded before he gave them their Authority His own Commands being the condition of Salvation Their Authority the means provided to inable us to attain it by observing and learning his Commands So as it is Heresie to depart from the Faith which they preached so is it Schism to depart from the Authority which they left in the Church till the Worlds end Were not the Catholick Church a Warrant to particular Churches they could not Reform themselves without the consent of the Whole But seeing abuses are and were Visible at the Reformation it is necessary to grant that particular Churches and secular Powers by whose Laws they subsist may restore that which may appear to have been decayed But it is also necessary to say that Reformation is the Restoring of that which was not the introducing of that which was not CHAP. IV. That
they can challenge by their Orders what pretense is there to imagine that there can be any such Crime as Schism if this be not it That God should bless that which is done by such gross Vsurpation as this is And when all this is said it remains free for me to say That there is no other way to restore and to preserve Vnity within the Reformation but by establishing and maintaining Episcopacy in that Authority which it hath always had for the determining of differences Nor maintain that Authority but by confining it within the Bounds which the Faith and the Laws of the whole Church do limit As for the Fanaticks which make our Orders void because the Pope is Antichrist and the Mass Idolatry whence our Bishops received and where they exercised their Orders I will only consider the Case of the Donatists forejudged by the whole Church They pleaded in point of fact that Caecilianus was Ordained by Apostates A thing which the Church was so clear in that the African Bishops offered to give up their Sees if it were proved But besides in point of Right had it been proved and Caecilianus owned by the Church because it did not appear or because they thought the Canons ought to be dispensed with for Unities sake those that Ordained Caecilianus having repented of their Apostacy shall we imagine that the Church was lost by owning those that had been Apostates and their Ordinations The Donatists are branded for Hereticks and Schismaticks maintaining all the Laws of the Church but that of Unity And shall Lay-Christians presuming to authorize Lay-Christians to consecrate the Eucharist and set up Churches be esteemed less then Hereticks and Schismaticks Let those that pretend to Unity find that Forbearance which a favourable construction of their actions signifies But Charity to the sound obligeth to take the profession of Schismaticks in the worst sense which if we do the making of Independent Congregations Churches will be the denying of One Catholick Church and the making of them Hereticks that do it CHAP. XVI That changing the Laws for the Weak is not Forbearance BUt if it be a thing absurd in common sense to allow them their Orders much more absurd will it be to change the Ecclesiastical Laws of the Land for their sakes Which is nothing else but to purchase their Ministry at the price of our Religion which the Ecclesiastical Laws contain Here we must distinguish two questions For it may be lawful for Christian people to live by those Laws which it was not lawful for Superiors in Church and State to make A thing evident to all that believe that it was possible for our Ancestors before the Reformation to be saved under the abuses of the Church of Rome But our question is whether or no the Laws of Superiors injoyn that which Gods Law forbids Inferiors to do Otherwise it is pernicious to all Government that Inferiors should take upon them to judge the Acts of Superiors But if the matter of the Law be within the Power that makes it to require an Exception for tender Consciences is to say that there is no Power in the World to give any Law to those tender Consciences Was there ever any Heresie any Schism any Religion pretending Christianity that did not alledge Scripture for themselves Did ever any man alledge it that would not be thought to be touched at the heart with it What is there for a Christian to doubt at where the Exception of tender Consciences lyes not Or how shall we that agree against the See of Rome but agree not in the terms and grounds of Reformation be tryed in the sense of the Scripture Can any man imagine that S. Paul intended to destroy his own Authority of giving Law to the Church which he exercised when he ordered the Jews and Gentiles at Rome to forbear one another Or is this Authority dead with the Apostles What Church then can there be alive if there be no Authority deriyed from the Apostles to give Law to it But the Authority is not questioned so it provide for weak Consciences Episcopacy will be owned if the Secular Power will force it to take them for their Presbyters whose Ministry they cannot give account to God of Being both authorized and exercised by Laws made without and against their Authority This no Christianity can justifie Christianity maintains the Estates of the World in all the Right they had when they became Christians And cannot justifie it self to the World otherwise How should the World receive it upon other terms But if the World stand upon the same terms having received Christianity as afore then must Christianity and the Church continue in the same Rights which it had before the World received it No exception to be allowed but as afore If it appear that the Faith and Laws of the Primitive Church be decayed Not if it seem to private Spirits that the Scripture is not fulfilled In the mean time is it for the honour of the Religion we profess that Weakness which at the best is negative ignorance in truth perhaps wilful ignorance should give Law to it Is it reason that they who have failed to destroy both Church and Kingdom should give Law to both As if a Child should govern the House because he will be framfold and disquieted otherwise Surely it is that which the Emperor said to his Niece Put as tibi injuriam fieri nisi imperas But is that the way to have Peace in Religion When Inferiors shall be made to tread upon the necks of their Superiors they will be so modest for the future as to stay there They will be content to have their Doctrine regulated by them as the Law of the Kingdom requires Or they will think fit that the Bishops be content with their Revenues and leave them to Preach what they please Surely they that can carry the dispute of a hundred years wherein the Bishops had so visibly the better that Club-law was found requisite to get the advantage will not lay down the Cudgels here So they that agree in conforming to the Laws differing every day in that which the Law determines not the Recusants on both sides may make hay in the heat of our Contentions and profit more by such a Law then by the War which destroyed this Church But especially the Atheists who have profited so well under these Contentions as to make that visible which was but foreseen under the Usurper That no Religion would in time stand to be the Religion of the Kingdom They having the Priviledge of the Laws and not liable to any Infamy when the differences maintained make Religion contemptible shall have cause to thank all that shall have done their work by solliciting such Laws CHAP. XVII Of the Opinion of Regeneration by Baptism ONe point I must not pass over in silence which hath been named for a point to be changed That all passages seeming to determine the Opinion of Baptismal
for want of due abilities and they will find cause I doubt not to prefer the Whole Church before a late Party and abate the Sermon to restore the Eucharist Especially seeing the Law of this Land must be changed to bear out what others have done though it is manifest they never gave any reason for it They will see cause to think that the best Preaching is that which may fit the people for the Eucharist by understanding the Covenant of Baptism and the importance of daily renewing and restoring it by Communion in the Eucharist The other Instance shall be the Psalms that are sung in Cathedral Churches but allowed to be read where there is not company to sing them For it is plain enough what excuses are made and what indeavours used to silence this part of Gods Service and to turn the Psalms which this Church with the Whole Church appointeth for devotion into Lessons of Instruction only Hence all the Plea against the Old Translation with points all the indeavors to crowd in the Psalms in Rhime instead of the Psalter and all use which the Church hath always made of it But did not partiality and faction prevail over that Reason which all Christendom before the Reformation hath always owned there could be no question of using the Psalter of David for an Instrument to tune the devotion of Christian people by transforming the expressions of David unto our Lord Christ in the first place and according to the Figure of Christ to the Whole Church first and then to every particular member of it He that hath learnt this from the Whole Church will never think it reason to put this part of Gods Service to silence whosoever they be that desire or desing it He will rather indeavour to reduce the singing of them into Parish Churches being evidently so much easier then the singing of the Psalms in Rhime But howsoever retain the reading of them by Antiphones and not quench the Spirit of God which breatheth forth that transformation whereof I spake Having thus instanced I will not propose the Ground upon which I maintain that all Reformation is to proceed for the condition of the Conference which I propose I will think it a point of that Forbearance which S. Paul commandeth the Romans not to insist upon those terms which the Authority of the Apostles doth inforce Because I see him not insist upon the Authority of an Apostle with them but having infallibly proved his ground of Justification by Faith alone forbear the consequence of it charging the Romans to hold that indifferent whatsoever his Authority so grounded declareth such yet charging them to forbear those that for all his Authority and Reasons understood it not For I believe verily that his reason and mine is the very same Namely to keep both Parties in the Unity of one Church a Member of the Whole Hoping that by Gods blessing upon the advantages which the communication of the Faithful one with another and with their Clergy affordeth those that are now most keenly set against these little things that are excepted at in the Act of Uniformity may by that condescension which the Interest of Christianity obliges all Parties to come to understand the only Principle of Reformation and Unity both The Authority of the Catholick Church in all things not determined by Gods Law which is only the Gospel under this time of Christianity And I set before them to that purpose the example of the Jews Who for all the Forbearance commanded by S. Paul having stopped their ears at all his charms with the Unity of the Church have forfeited the Faith hitherto irrecoverably For being fully perswaded that without this Principle it is not possible either for this Church or for any part of the Reformation long to subsist Can I fear any less then the utter loss of Religion for my dearest Country and for the dearer Church of God in it CHAP. XXVII How Recusants may or may not be punished as Idolaters IT remains that I say what Penalties this Position makes competent to those that refuse the Reformation thus limited A thing easie for me to do having declared the Ground upon which the refusing of Christianity is punishable Which the Reformation hitherto hath not been able to do The Position of punishing Hereticks capitally is generally decryed by them And yet we see Servetus and Gentilis put to death at Geneva and Bern and others elsewhere If because sentenced for Hereticks by them that put them to death Why should not the Powers that adhere to the Church of Rome execute the Sentence thereof upon those whom they pronounce Hereticks If because so sentenced by the Primitive Church in which we both agree Why owne we not the Primitive Church in the rest as well as in that If because they that gave the Sentence are competent Judges in Religion What remains but that contrary Sentences be executed by the Sword and Religion be no otherwise judged But supposing Religion and the Church and the sense of the Scripture Visible so far as the preserving of Unity requires Christian Powers must both protect Subjects in their Civil as well as natural being though not true Christians and yet punish them for not being true Christians Only if they pretend freedom from Allegiance by Christianity and we know it is false Christianity that so pretends there will be also fit time to declare why they may be capitally punished But those who declare the Pope Antichrist and the Papists Idolaters in the exercise of their Religion have not declared what Penalty is competent to their Idolatry And yet till that be cleared we are in the clouds This difficulty I find my self able to look in the face without ever disputing whether the Papists by their Religion are bound to commit Idolatry or not The Law of Moses indeed seems to shew that by the Law of Nature Idolaters may be put to death for their Idolatry For there is no appearance that the Law of God would have injoyned that which the Law of Nature allows not But the Case is otherwise under Christianity then under the Law of Moses The people of Israel held the Land of Promise upon Condition not to suffer any other God to be worshipped within the Bounds of it but the true God that gave it them upon those terms Therefore they committed a forfeit whensoever they suffered Idolatry in it But the Gospel was preached to the Roman Empire consisting of two Religions of Jews and Gentiles Maintaining the State of the World upon the same terms which it found saving that which if they imbraced the Faith they must voluntarily change When therefore the Soveraign Power of the Empire came to profess the Faith and thereupon an obligation to maintain and propagate it by all means which the Right of Soveraign Power furnishes they could not answer God for the right use of their Power using any other means then the Interest of Christianity allows They might