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A09876 A discourse, of the true and visible markes of the Catholique Churche vvritten by M. Theod. Beza. Vezelius; De veris et visibilibus Ecclesiae Catholicae notis. English Bèze, Théodore de, 1519-1605.; T. W. (Thomas Wilcox), 1549?-1608. 1582 (1582) STC 2014; ESTC S101560 55,907 134

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haue polluted the Sacrament of Baptisme with infinite corruptions And that they haue taken awaye euen at the firste one Element of the Supper of the Lorde And whilst that afterwarde by a more than abhominable wickednesse chaunging that Sacrament into that detestable propitiatorie Sacrifice they haue vtterly taken awaye all that holy action and therefore openly haue by violence pulled away the seale of the couenant of the new Testament To be shorte that they haue by as many false Sacraments as it pleased them to deuise taken to them selues the authoritie of Iesus Christe oure onely lawe gyuer Therefore what parte of Gods worde haue not these men corrupted or rather cleane taken away And then where is that onely true perpetuall and necessarye marke of the Catholique Churche Where is that Seede whiche beeing taken away the spreading of the Church also vppon earth muste needes be taken away Now if the question be touching that Ecclesiasticall gouernement that I may speake some what more fully of this matter than heretofore I haue done what I beseeche you can a man finde in the Popishe cleargie but that Image of the beast Hath not this high Bishoppe succeeded the other high Byshoppe of Rome which was wont to be therin the hyre of the Gentiles What say I Hath not that Romishe Pope snatched to him selfe by occupying nowe at the laste and in some ages here to sore by sittinge in Rome the verye name and all the authoritie of the verie Emperour of Rome For the thinges whiche yet remayne there beeing Reliques not so muche of the Romaine empire as of the Germane kingdome and gouernment what are they more I pray you but a bare shewe and name not onely because the emperours themselues doe of their owne accord at this day worship the féet of this beast but also because he suffereth not so much as one of his false cleargie to be subiect to any secular power as they call it yea rather who perceiueth not this wicked fellow not contented with this so great wickednesse to be the very same person whom Paul fore told should sit after the empire of Rome was destroyed In the temple of God 2. Thes 2.4 and exalt him selfe aboue all that is called God For is not this he that openly affirmeth that he muste bee iudged of no man no not of the Aungelles Who if his price be giuen him boasteth that he can open both heauen and hell who at his pleasure openly breaketh all lawes both of God and men who also more than once with in these few yeares hath vndone lawes established by nature it selfe which wickednesse also the prophane city of Rome in time here to fore in the raigne of Claudius the emperor abhorred who hath sold euen for a farthing those very canons whose name was wont to make a fraide the ignorant people And as for those purpled Cardinals what other thing are they than an Image not of the auncient senate of Rome but of that senate which serued the emperors and deuiding the gouernement betweene them but who is so ignorant of the state of Rome that doth not perceiue that that distribution of gouernments is a picture of the empire of Rome ouerthrown which thing also the Bishops of Rome themselues and the writers that be addicted to them do witnesse And as concerning other ecclesiasticall functions such as they were ordained of Christ by his Apostles what doth there remaine among them but most vayne names and bare titles For the office of a bishop which in the beginning that is while the Churche florished was as Hierome also witnesseth nothing els but the office of an elder whilst euen immediatly after the time of the Apostles it proceeded to those heights of dignities or as they them selues speake prelacies of which we haue before spokē is now a good while ago wholly vanisht awaye amongest them Nowe what is it with them to bee a minister Is it to be appointed to feede some flocke Is it to haue the ouersight of manners and to beare rule in the Censures of the Church No in deede but to haue aucthoritie to offer Christ agayn What is it to bee a Deacon Is it to take charge of the goodes of the Church and righty to dispence them to the ministers and the poore and to render an account of that which is receiued and layde out Fye fie for this except alwais the yéelding of accounts is rather the onely chiefe and common office to all of the whole Popish clergie specially of the Pope himselfe and that so openly and so carefully indéede or couetously rather exercised that they exact euen of those that bee deade manye yeeres before a greate Tribute and vnto them that be aliue they doe not fréely giue anye thing though neuer so little Therefore there is no suche eyther Byshoppe or Minister among them as the apostle alloweth of and as for Deacons not so muche as one at all And yet these bee the men that obiecte vnto vs the succession of the Apostles And if so bee that that one olde Canon so often times repeated in the aunciente Synodes and altogether agreeable to the woorde of God did preuaile to wit that that ordination which is boughte by money that I may omit the principall parts of a iust ecclesiastical calling that is to say trial and election ioined with the free consent of the whole Churche which are wholly abolished by them if a man consider the thing it selfe should be iudged I say altogether void what marke of Apostolicall ordination shall there bee founde amongst them vnlesse happelye they meane that it is one and the selfe same thing to mocke at the order instituted by the Apostles and to keepe that Order diligently which hath beene deliuered frō hand to hand and vnlesse they wold prooue that lawfull and currant coyne were to be knowen from counterfeit mony by the bare image grauen vpon it and not rather by the matter it selfe especially as often as they shewe the same image to both parties To be short therefore what maner of one is that Catholique church in which in steed of true Christ a most false idoll at least wise in respect of his office is set vp and where in steed of Gods pure word partly the traditions of men and partly the traditions of the Deuill are placed and where also in steed of succession Apostolicall ordination nothing hath place all most but most manifest and detestable euen to the Deuill him selfe as it were both bying and selling of soules redéemed by the blood of Christ in so muche that they woulde haue it to be accounted an vnlawfull thinge to searche into these matters yea so farre haue they procéeded that they would cōdemne men though their cause be not heard yf high treason against God and man wheras on the other side if a man should graunt these things there shold be nothing so wicked so blasphemous and so horrible to be thought which a man might
none that so interpreted the primacies and glorious titles which are attributed to the bishop of Rome although in deed the bishops of Rome ambitiouslie sought nothing more and there wanted not some who most shamlesly euen then flattered thē as that they did for all that gyue this degree of vniuersall head vnto him Therfore they haue not Christ nor Peter but that most vile man of al Phocas I say the emperor for the author of this vniuersallitie and they haue Boniface the thirde the head or beginner of this tyrannie or that I may vse the words of Gregorie the great himselfe the chiefe or head of Antichristianisme in so much that the Romishe popedome doth but onely sixtene yeares at the most goe before Mahumetisme or the turkishe religion But by what sleightes that monster hath vsurped and attayned this tyrannie who I praie you at this day can be ignorant vnlesse he be ignorant of histories or whose eyes Satan hath blinded yea seeing that this most holy father doth boast him selfe to be not the successor of Peter alone but of Paul also whose heads being cut off not so much by newes hang men as by the Pope himselfe he ingraueth in these his leaden seales it must needs be either that afterward two heads were growen into one whose authoritie afterward passed for sooth to this successor of them both or els that neither Peter nor Paule were this onely vniuersal ministeriall head except he woulde rather acknowledge that the catholique churche hath had at the beginning two heades vppon the earth But what say I that I may speake nothing here of so many Antipopes or Popes one against an other when as Liberius and Damasus at one and the same time as all men affirme obtayned that seate of Rome where was then that one vniuersall head And let these thinges be sufficiently spoken touching the deliuerie of that spirituall sworde from hand to hand And as concerning that other sworde which they call secular or politique wherewith they haue ouerthrowen all magistracie From whence I pray you do they take the beginning of this iurisdiction for though we shoulde beleeue that fable of the donation or gyfte of Constantine to be as true as it was shamelesly fayned yet truely it shal not be set from the apostles but frō the emperor neither yet graunted by Christ or by Peter but by men Which thing notwithstanding was neyther lawfull for Constantine to do nor for the Bishoppe of Rome to receaue although it had beene willingly offered him Wherefore if they shall of their owne authoritie requyre agayne these two feathers the churche those former to wit the ecclesiasticall gouernement and Kinges and Princes these latter to wit ciuill iurisdiction and authoritie both which in their time shall come to passe this fellow will then appeare not the head of the church but an vnfeathered cuckow And these things concerning this head haue I put down in few words because they haue of late by them of our side verie plentifully both out of the worde of God out of the truest histories of former times to be short out of the testimonies of the Popes thēselues ben manifestly declared and plentifully proued Now the head of this succession being cut off That there can be noe Apostolicall succession in the Cardinalles Metrapolitanes Primates or Archbishops what shall the rest of the body be but a roteen and stinking carkas Truely them selues are compelled to confesse that the next degree vnto this head to wit the order of cardinalles as it is nowe cannot be set from the more auncient time There follow primates and Archbishoppes for scarce the verie name of Patriarkshippe is yet remayning and Mahomet at the length hath ended the matter incontrouersie which firste arose betweene the [a] That is those foure men that tooke vppon them the gouernment of the vvhol world he meaneth the foure Patriarches to wit Hierusalem Alexandria Constātinople Rome Quartumvi i and afterwards betweene the [a] That is the fiue mē that toke vppon them the gouernement of the world Quintumuiri Therefore the Nicene councell it selfe doth not refer the beginning of these offices to the word of God or Apostolicall institution eyther written or not written but to ancient custome So that neither can this succession be thought to be Apostolicall The degree of Bishopps wherin they are exalted aboue the rest of the Ministers or Pastors was vnknowen to the Apostles and therfore that there is no Apostolicall succession therof There rest yet Bishoppes so called of them to wit which are set in euerie diocesse aboue ministers for the other inferiour orders these pleaders of succession nothing esteeme whose onely succession neuerthelesse hath some shew of Apostolicall succession But it maye plainely apeare out of the firste Epistle to the Corinth not onely that there was no suche degree of Bishops ordeyned by the Apostles as immediatly afterward was brought into the Church after the times of the apostles neither that ther was any such allowed of the Apostle to wit that ther should be one degree of a bishop and an other of a minister or that some man should be called a Bishoppe not in respect of a flock but in respect of his fellow elders For who doubteth but that the Apostle woulde haue gyuen this counsel vnto the Corinthians or himselfe woulde haue perfourmed it or haue attributed it to Caephas or Apollo if which thing Hierome hath written to Euagrius and in his commentaries vpon the first Epistle to Titus he had iudged this remedie profitable much more necessarie for the brydling of Schismes But whether it were lawfull to ordayne this degree in the Church or not for of this I like not nowe to dispute that thing is not only apparant out of Hierom vpon the epistle to Titus the Bishops are greater than ministers rather by custome than by the truth of the Lords appoyntment But also by witnesses which these men as greater than all exception are accustomed to alleadge as Lucius the Pope Clement the second Anacletus vnlesse their Epistles be rather counterfaite which yet these men cite for authenticall Lombard in his fourth booke of sentences the 24. distinct Gratian and to be short Cardinall Cusan in his booke of the vniuersall vnitie Platina in the life of Pope Bonifacius the third al which plainly witnesse that all this Hierarchicall or priestlike gouernment aboue ministers was deuised by men after the example of the Roman empyre that is to say that it is the true Imag● of the beast described in the reuelalion of Iohn Reuel 13.1 Reuel 14.9 For whose cause some in the beginning also did trauaile which ment not to performe that which afterward insued The thing it selfe in fine taught vs that it was a matter of great importance to decline euen but a nailes bredth from the word of God The conclusion of the disputation touching the succession of persons sundred from the succession of
matter say that the Church of Christe is a schoole in which the worde of the Lorde is not onely barely to be read as out of the letter written but also to bee taught that it maye bee rightly vnderstoode and so to be taught that exhortations corrections and consolations both openly and priuately maye bee vsed which in Paul is vnderstoode by the name of Prophecying Rom. 12.6 Moreouer this also wee adde which thing ought here chiefly to bee marked that the interpretation of those scriptures are to be set no where else then out of the scriptures themselues not onely because the word of God is able to giue credite to it selfe but also because that trueth is reuealed vnto vs no where els then in the writings of the Prophetes and Apostles For that saying of Austen is well knowen and is most true That the scripture is to be expounded by the scripture Neither shall it irke me heere to put downe that nonotable place out of the 49. Homelie of the imperfect worke vpon Mathew because it agreeth altogeather with our times He that will know saith he which is the true Church of Christ let him not know it but onely by the scriptures And by and by after Christians therefore beeing willing to receiue the certainetie of true fayth let them flie to nothing but to the scriptures otherwise if they shall haue respect to other thinges they shall stumble perish not vnderstanding which is the true Church and by this meanes they shall fall into the abhomintaion of desolation which standeth in the holy places of the Church But to whom shall belong will these men say the interpretation of scriptures Verily all be not Prophetes all be not teachers But againe Esay Esay as crieth that both Priestes and Prophetes haue erred in their vision neither would Christ haue admonished Math. 16.6 Math. 23.2 That the leauen of the Pharises should be auoyded if we shoulde without exception haue consented vnto them That sit in Moses chayre Neither should the false Prophetes be eschued if all the Prophetes did speake the truth neither would Caiphas and the whole Synode of the Priestes haue condemned Christ if the holy Ghost had beene tried without exception to those that sit in Aarons seat What then Antiquitye or noueltye maketh nothing at all to instruct men to discerne the true interpretation of scripture from the false Let these men therefore heare at length that which we haue so often times cryed out vnto deafe men to wit that we do not simply reiect neither the old nor the new counsels whether they be particular or generall vnlesse they be plainly theeuish that we do not simply refuse neither old nor new writers vnles they be manifestly either superstitious or ridiculous or by cōmon consent abrogated That we doe not simply cast from vs the writings neither of auncient nor new writers whether they be Ecclesiasticall or Laicall as these men call them for God is no accepter of persons and often times euen by the basest sorte he confoundeth the pride of the most wise vnlesse they be plainly wicked superstitious or foolishe But this onely we require which the most learned and euery the most religious of the old writers monish carefully to be don to wit that all these thinges should be diligently examined according to the rule of the written word of God For antiquitie and authoritie of those that wryte may in deed set some collour of truth vpon falshood but that it shoulde be true which disagreeth neuer so little from the writings of the Prophets and Apostles that truely it can neuer bring to passe Furthermore The Creeds of the ancient Synodes the iudgement of the fathers against heretiques are at no hand reiected by vs yea rather they are strongly defended against aduersaries although not as yeelding credite themselues experience it self more than sufficiently declareth that there haue beene long time since builded vpon the foundation layd by the Apostles not onely bay and stubble but also yron and rust to be short lies vppon trueth All which thinges muste at the length be consumed by the light and fire of Gods word Now least these men shoulde agayne complaine that what soeuer hath bene established by counsell after consell in the auncient Churche shoulde by this meanes be called into doubt we confes that we doe acknowledge the Créedes which were alwayes approoued by the common consent of the whole Church to wit the Creed of the Apostles Nice Athanasius his creed the creed of Constantinople Chalcedon togeather with the curses pronounced in the second counsel of Ephesus againste Nestorius And that we both with mouth and hart detest al heresies which either by open or secret consent of the whole Church were out of the word of God condemned in those 4. councels and also ouer throwen in the fifth and sixth councels of Constantinople And all other heresies whatsoeuer which afterwarde eyther newlye sprong vp or are newly polished not that the truth hangeth vpon any Synods or Creedes but because we acknowledge that the thinges which are prescribed and established in them The conclusion of the disputation of the true Christ who is the only true perpetual and absolute necessary note of the true Church may be rightly iudged by the writings of the prophets and Apostles so far of is it that we take away the authority of the church or dispise the consent of the godly either ancient or new writers which thing our aduersaries falsly shamlesly obiect vnto vs. Now the summe of al these things is this that Christ is the true perpetual necessary to be short the onely marke of the Church yea I say the true Christ that is suche a one as he from the beginning hath most perfectly touching the matter and maner of saluation reuealed him selfe both in the writings of the prophets and of the Apostles Mat. 12.13 For that saying standeth sure He that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad and that saying 1. Pet. 2.7 that christ is that corner stone of the foundation vppon whome the whole building riseth vp And that onely head which ministreth vnto his body that is vnto the true catholique Church al féeling and mouing To be short Iohn 10.7 Iohn 14.6 Iohn 11.25 he is the dore the way the resurrection and the lyfe Therfore whersoeuer that word is heard as it ought to be there in deed Christe raigneth and where Christe raigneth there in deed we iudge the Catholique visible Churche to be neither tied to any certaine place nor vnto the multitude for where that dead carkas is Mat. 24.28 to wit Christe crucified there be those Egles there is saluation Act. 4.12 where that onely name is in which we must be saued there be the children of light where that sonne shineth there be the true sheepe Where the voyce of that sheepeheard is heard Mat. 18.20 although two or three onely throughout all the world
they shall proue that there are more wise men than fooles Now then I thinke it doth sufficiently appeare that by this bare successiō which they brag of that true catholike church wherein we must abyde cannot be discerned from the false Churche from which we ought of necessitie to depart But yet before that we conclude this place we muste refell an argument which these Sophisters would haue to be deemed such a one as cannot be ouercome For say they Hovv the fathers vsed the argumēt of personall succession the fathers so dispute from the succession of bishoppes against auncient heretiques But againe what can be more corrupt than this subtle kind of reasoning for this is that which is well knowne euen to children which they are wount to call an elench [a] The fallacie of composition or diuision is a false conclusion made by a wrong application of wordes alleadged or spoken referring that to one which is alleadged or spoken to an other or a fallacy of composition and diuysion First therfore I deny that any of the auncient fathers were mynded to vse the recitall of Bishops but to haue recourse rather euen to the Apostles And why so that the authoritie of doctrine rather than of persons shoulde be mainteined But these men obiect vnto vs the succession of their bishops not in déede bishops so far letting passe the mention of that Apostolicall doctrine that they woulde haue it accounted a wicked thing to demaund it at his handes that woulde proue him selfe to succeed the auncient byshoppes Now I pray you howe many authors of blasphemies haue sit in those chiefe seates of Alexandria Antioche Constantinople yea what seat will these men shew me somewhat more famous where some hereticall bishops haue not helde their seate And as touching the Romish chayre from which these men by a rottē coard hang the catholique church Honorius the [a] Monothelites were certain heretiks about the yeare 565 who affirmed that there vvas but one will and one action in Christ denying that ther was in him two naturall willes and actions which might aunsvvere to his two natures Monothelite openly condemned of the sixt general councell and priuately of Agatho another Roman Bishoppe And Iohn the 22. thinking euill touching the soule of man in like manner condemned of the colledge of Sorbon in Paris were sounde to haue sit in that seate To let passe [a] Liberius for ambitions sake fell into the Arrian heresie Liberius [b] He while Siluerius the Pope liued by the ayde of Belisarius the captaine of the Emperors armie obteined the popedome Vigilius and [c] He meaneth of Anastasius the 2. who fell into the heresie of Arrius and Eutiches which heresies Acatius also him selfe did propound about the yeere 484. Anastasius whom I see of some to be excused although Gratian. 2. Disti 19. reckeneth this last also as an Acatian heretique amongst the condemned Popes But if any man would obiect that these are blotted out of the number of Byshops and therfore are not comprehended in that title or role of succession yet this he shal be inforced to graunt vs to wit that the succession of the seat of Rome was then at the least broken of when these were therefore blotted out which persons notwithstanding they themselues as yet number in their Catologue because they had declined from the Apostolicall doctrine Whervpon followeth that which Tertulian rightly affirmeth that religion ought to be proued or tried not by the persons Tertulian but the persons by religion But here truly I confesse that I do somwhat ouershoot my self for seeing the question is of doctrine what doth this appertaine to the Byshops of the Churche of Rome whome all Christendome knoweth nowe so manye yeeres to haue beene for nothing lesse carefull then for anye doctrine eyther true or false but onely for to establishe and enlarge theire owne tyrannie But they will say no man hath condēned these Popes I confes it For who would haue taken to himself this lawful authority against their tiranny who had perswaded all men that they ought to be iudged of none Therefore there hath bene not of late onely but many ages together not an interruption but a full abruption or renting of the succession of Rome from the body of the catholique true church except peraduenture these men iudge that it is something lesse eyther to belleeue nothing or to teache nothing than to be an Heretique And I beséeche you what impudencie is this True doctrine ought to go before true succession to haue the knowledge of trueth to hang vpon succession wheras on the contrary these men themselues can not deny but that the trueth ought necessarily to go before succession And these Sophisters The Christian church in the time of Christe coulde not be knovvne by the succession of Persons if they had bene in the times of Christ by what Bishoply succession would they haue acknowledged the true church surely not by the title or name of the Leuiticall high priests because that priesthood was then at an end and Christ cannot be called the successour of Aaron vnlesse Iudaisme be agayne established wherefore also he is sayd to be made a high priest Heb. 7.16.17 not according to the order of Leui but according to the order of Melchisedec Therefore the holy men at that time acknowledged the Catholique church without the marke of personall succession to wit by the comparison of the doctrine of the Prophetes with the doctrine of Christe him selfe and the Apostles Which is so farre true that on the contrarye none haue lesse acknowledged Christe than they that haue cleaued to a Byshoply succession Therefore that personall succession is no true and perpetuall marke of the Catholique Church These men happely beeing driuen from the Leuiticall succession will againe obiect another succession from the Prophetes But neyther so shall they speake the truth if they sticke in the persons them selues for the succession of Prophetes was not perpetuall no more than the succession of Priests yea rather it was broken of a long time especially after Malachie They wil also obiect vnto vs that saying Mat. 23.2 The Scribes Pharises sit in Moses chaire But agayne they shold remember the same Christ to haue said Take heed of the leauen of the Pharisees Mat. 16.6 And therefore by that saying of Christ we are not called backe to a succession of persons but to a succession of doctrine But I haue besides an other thing more peremptorye as they them selues speake to aunswere againste that in which these men falsly boast themselues to followe the authoritie of the Fathers in discrying the church by which thing also their wilines may more and more be made manifest I denie therefore The auncient fathers vsed not the argument of personall succession against all heretiques that any of the auncient fathers haue at any time made mention of this succession but either against Schismatiques whilest