discretion and Wisdome when the Pastors seate sanctified with God and ordained with so many pretious promises shoulde bee subiect to more follye and headinesse then the chayre of the Byshoppe this inconuenience is as likelye to fall into the Byshoppe as the Minister Further whether is more likely that the Byshop hauing by reason of his countenaunce and Ciuill authoritye bothe more heart-burning betweene the Noble Counsailers and himselfe and being in lesse feare as thinking him selfe better able to shoulder amongest them would be more bold in his conceit then a poore Minister as hee calleth him who neuer woulde for feare but vpon moste necessary and sufficient cause vrged in conscience aduenture suche thing neither if hee woulde could many graue Elders without whom he coulde do nothing bee drawne vnto it especially considering that their feare woulde preuayle where greate Conscience of theire duetie shoulde not ouercome it And maye not this man when his opinion as a Canker shall frette so farre turne all this agaynst the euery of publique rebuking as-well as agaynste the Mynisters execution of Disciplyne for maye he not also demaunde whether the Byshoppe shall retayne his authoritye to preache in his Diocesse and if hee bee in that Parishe who shall haue the preeminence If hee suspende the Minister from preachinge whether hee bee not at the same poynte hee was before And what if the Minister vppon some discretion woulde rebuke openlye some Peere of the Realme vpon bare conceyte or some surmise shall then the duetye of the Minister in Preaching for suche vnitye of the Churche cease and bee counted inconuenient If hee saye no this is the commaundemente of GOD and necessarye for Christian institution so wee saye this is the commaundemente of JESUS CHRISTE and necessarye for holye correction In the nexte place hee asketh to whome the Pastour shall tell it when hee doth admonishe him him-selfe I aunswere for the Pastour easely to the whole Eldership as our sauiour willeth But this question in deed cleane dasheth the sole authority of the Bishop out of countenaunce For to whom shall he tell not to the Congregation of Elders as our Sauiour commandeth but to the Church which standeth of him-selfe only as he desireth not ascending by the stayres of Christ from one to two from two to manye Godly Presidents as Chrisostome speaketh but by the stayres of Rome to descend from two to one and to take the matter wherin he is a party into his own hands and proceed in censure Ecclesiasticall as liketh him-selfe best In the next to blear mens eyes with all he graunteth they may rebuke in publike doctrine bynde and loose by preaching which is a great part of Discipline as though any man were so blynd as when the booke maketh three partes of the Ministers Office ministring of doctrine ministering of the Sacraments and ministring of Discipline as not to see what violence he doth Nay what folly he imputeth to the booke as though they shoulde make three of two For if Discipline be nothing but the open rebuking in preaching and binding and loosing by the same that beeing a parte of ministring the Doctrine by preaching is manifestly contained vnder it and so not onelye maketh one two but carrieth one halfe from one end of the sentence to another placing a thirde betweene and for an vmpier belike leaste they shoulde fall out or else being ioyned orderly togeather should to much annoy him But his reasons which the Jesuites haue shaken against the trueth hefore him do follow Unto which I aunswere that it followeth not that if the Apostle mighte by sole authority excommunicate therefore the Byshop may for an Apostle is of far greater authority then a Byshop is Secondly it is false that the Apostle did onely command vnto them to pronounce the sentence as the Byshop doth the minister giuing them no further authority For although as an Apostle whose duety was to deliuer ordiaunces which the Churches were to obserue and keep hee did iustlye decree as the voyce of Christe and so commaunde them what they should do yet he doth not excommunicate or take it vnto him-selfe but willeth that by the authority of Christ they should caste out not pronounce his sentence of eiection they shold Seperate frō amongst them such that they Should iudge those within that is vnder their authority not that they shoulde only pronounce his sentence of seperation and iudgement which is also most manyfest by his other allegation out of the second to the Corinthes where hesheweth that hee alone would not forgiue but whomsoeuer they forgaue he would forgiue he calleth it the rebuke or censure of many not of him-selfe He sheweth now they ought freely to forgiue he did exhort them to ratifie and by authority confirme their loue towards him Let him therfore take this necessary collectiō cleane against him y ◠if y ◠Apostle wold not nor durst not take vnto himself the sole anthority of excommunication absolution but left it vnto the church How shal any one bishop presume to shut out y ◠Ministers and elders carry it wholy vnto himself His next reason is of as great force The Apostle saith he did deliuer vnto sathan mentioneth neither their Ministry nor segniory therfore he did alone Upon which example I reason thus Paule saith that Timothy receiued grace by the laying on of his hands making no mention of y ◠elders therfore it is false that he saith in the 1. Tim. 4. that he receiued it by the laying on of the hands of the Eldership James Act. 15. saith I determine or iudge Therefore it is false which is after set down y ◠this was the decree of the Apostles Elders with the consent of the Churches But what neede I stande to aunswere this argument which was by a reuerent seruaunt of God aunsweared openly at Paules crosse that although the action be giuen to one who moderated yet neither Peter nor James nor anye Apostle aboue Apostles nor Bishop aboue Ministers had any authoritye ouer others and that as the Senatours were equall in authoritye notwithstanding he moderated so is it amongest the Apostles and Bishops And thus much for his reasons Ours follow that it belongeth to the Pastor the Eldership to excommunicate by the consent of the people If our Sauiour Christ Math. 18. when hee sayth tell the Churche meane not one Bishop because one can not be a number nor one alone a Church and he goeth vpwarde from one to 2. from two to moe not contrarywise from twoo to one neither can it be meant of manye Churches for then it muste bee all the whole Church in the phrase of the scripture and it were a confusion and vnpossibility for many Churches or the whol people to heare all such Ecclesiasticall causes but do meane vpon these reasons a particular Congregation then our assertion is most true and certaine The first we haue proued therfore the second is
is not to be shut out in the Deacons which lesse importeth their libertye and saluation much lesse are they to be debarred in their Pastors and Elders vppon whome as Peter sayth the flocke dependeth Where hee sayth the people chose without the Apostles it is shewed already howe his owne wordes checke him and the trueth is plainly to bee seene in the Texte that neyther the people without the Apostles directing them nor the Apostles without the people consenting vnto them made that Election As for shutting out of the Byshops and Church-gouernours it is meruaile why hee shoulde feare it vnlesse iealousy which is fearefull where no feare is hath blinded his eyes That of the Apostles doing without any expresse worde from Christes commaundement is aunswered before in that alleadged concerning the Saboth Cap. 1. and is further manifest by the example of the Apostle Paule who beeing not with the other Apostles yet followed that rule Acts 14. That he saith there is no certaine forme of their Election hee is refuted by his owne wordes following where he sheweth out of the Text their election to haue beene of this sort that vppon the instruction of the Apostles the people in presenting them necessarily therewithall gaue their consent as the Apostles did in accepting them to their ordination As for agreement of all Churches in all circumstances of this point he hath his aunswere before but that he willeth to be shewed what is ordinary and what is extraordinary His aunswere is that the Apostles instructed the people and they consented which is ordinary as appeareth in that it is kept in all Elections of the Church Actes 1. Actes 14. and 2. Cor. 9. 19. but that which was extraordinary was the presentation of the people the special cause whereof him selfe hath declared out of the text In the rest it is straunge that hee requireth reconciliation where there is no repugnaunce but all the places ioyne hande in hande together For y e first in y e election of the Apostle it lay in the liberty of y e church onely to choose some For the Lot beeing the voyce of God was to assigne which of them should bee the Apostle and this circumstance maketh strongly for the trueth which is mayntayned For if where God is to strike the principall stroke yet the peoples consent is to bee taken as farre as may bee howe muche more is the authoritye of the whole Church to be sought for where the Election is onelye to bee done by men as the Apostle speaketh Galat. 1. The obiection of the manner of the election Actes 6. is aunswered before As for the number of 7. who is so simple as not to knowe that the number is to be varied according to the spreade and greatnesse of the Churches where they are and the multitude of causes affayres to be dealt withall As for no imposition of handes in the first and 14. of the Actes it is too simple and scarse tollerable in a catechist seeing such thinges are to be gathered out of other places otherwise one may thinke there were no praiers in the celebrating of the Communion Acts 20. because there is no mention of it in that place which yet were very absurd considering that the order which S. Luke described in the Churche at Hierusalem prooueth that they continued in breaking of bread and praier And if such seely obiections need to bee aunswered as inforcing diuers formes of elections then also wee may proue diuersities of Communions some of the cup and bread together some of the cup alone some of breade alone by Act. 2. Act. 20. 1. Cor. 12. Wher he saith Titus only is willed to appoint priests belike the Jesuites translation was before him when he translated Presbyterous Priestes and that so dazeled his eyes that hee coulde not consider the wordes following that he shoulde do as hee had set him an order which was not to do it without the consent of y e church except Paul would lift vp Titus aboue himselfe Barnabas who chose Elders by voices And if the answerer had bene ignorant of y e vse of y e scripture which oftentimes giueth y ◠action to y e principal directer which yet belongeth to many more as Paule in one place saith Tim. receiued grace by the laying on of his hādes 2. Tim. 6. which in 1. Tim. 4. he declareth to haue beene done by y e laying on of y e handes of the Eldership yet his skil in Logick should haue shewed him y e deceit of this Sophism Titus appointed Elders therefore he appoynted thē without the consent of y e people Of this kind are al the reasons following As al reformed Churches iumpe not in al circumstaunces therefore they shut out the consent of the people In other Churches the Elders of euery congregation haue the chiefe directiō in the electione yet not without the consent of y e people therfore it is fitly according to their example ordered that the Church shoulde once for all gyue vp their interest into one mans handes for the continual election of many Churches The sentence of Maister Beza doth very fitly require an vpright conscience to set down what is expedient according to the circumstance of time and place Which if it had beene found in him at this time and in this matter he would not haue shut his eies against the manifest light of words going before which declare manyfestly that it is a perpetuall and vnchaungeable poynt in Church-elections which neither Church nor magistrate may alter that they be made with the consent of the people His wordes in that place are these Then therefore not in Churches buylded vp must all thinges be committed vnto the suffrages of the multitude neither yet are the Pastours to be chosen without the consent of the whole Church But all thinges are so to be moderated of the Elders and Christian Magistrates that neither they bring in tyrannie into the Church which surely should be done if they shoulde call any vnto publike function of their owne wil neglecting the consent of the multitude neither that the popular state of the Church degenerate into popular rule Neither are these wordes of Beza onely sufficient to shew his corruption but the title of the chap. where he taketh this obiection doth minister sufficient aunswere seeing it declareth that Beza in all that place speaketh not of the consent of the people which he made perpetuall in the chap. before but of the maner how he gaue their voyces which is but a circumstaunce And thus much both generally and particularly for the vnfolding of his vnfit and slender allegations Now followeth a confirmatition of the trueth it selfe which is It is substantiall vnchaungeable in churchelections that they be made by the body of euery Churche the Elders directing the people and them-selues to giue their free consent The reasons of which assertion are these First what soeuer are the wayes of the Apostles in ordinary
compasse of the ordinarye power of the Church who beeing immediatelye called of God coulde not be demissed by the Church For seeing no calling can bee made voyde but by the authority which made it that which hath immediately proceeded from God can not be repealed but by his voyce Now seeing the immediat voyce of God and Christ did not onely not make voyde but further establish the calling of Aaron and Peter how could y e Church meddle with that Or how coulde the rule giuen to the Church for to direct their mediate elections rule the immediate calling of God And if this be not playne inough to cause him to see the difference which is as greate as that which is betweene GOD and his Churche the voyce of man and the voyce of GOD Let him vnderstande it by an other example of lyke reason It hath beene prooued alreadye both by the Scriptures and Fathers that none shoulde be admitted to the Ministery by the Church but such as were sufficiently qualified by ordinary meanes or gyftes giuen them alreadye of God vnto the same function Now if to defend the Bishoppes in admitting Taylors Shomakers Weauers Chaundlers Harpers beeing also men furnished with no gyftes one shoulde alleadge the calling of Amos who by God was taken from the sheepfolde beeing neyther a Prophet nor sonne of a Prophet woulde it not be a manyfest dallying in the sight of God and man But rather as the ordinary power of the Church can not heerein imitate the Lordes prerogatiue because they can not as God with their calling powre in gyftes into the personnes whereby they shoulde bee inabled to their office So they muste not followe the prerogatiue of GOD in this because they are rather to bee gealouse and suspicious for the Churches sake though other-wyse they are bound to hope the beste of a repentaunt Sinner ouer him leaste he shoulde agayne betraye the cause of GOD which in God is farre other-wyse who not onelye knoweth the heartes of men but also what strength he will after gyue him and if hee let him fall hee knoweth how to tourne it to the profitte of his Church Now as these examples in this respecte approche not vnto the matter in debate So the example of AVGVSTINE a Manachie or such lyke because the question is not of such as were before their ministerye such or carryed away with the common ignoraunce before they knew the trueth but of suche as firste seruiuge GOD in his appoynted seruice doe not onely leaue the holy altar and fire but renouncing that betake them-selues to a prophane and idolatrous seruice and priesthoode Wherin he receiueth answere also vnto his allegations of the fathers and counsels which if they should speake of such as fell in capitall pointes from the true seruice of God of which somtimes they were Ministers they should then be directly contrary to the fathers and general counsels which shal anon be brought as direct and manyfest on our side The lyke is to be answeared vnto Viret and the example of the French Churches Hauing thus aunsweared his obiections the truth is confirmed sufficiently by the reasons following out of the Scriptures and auncient witnes from the councels and Fathers 1 Whatsoeuer God hath commaunded to be done in the lawe to declare the honour he hath of his right seruice how he will haue his Ministery beautified and fenced against the cauilles of all which are perpetuall equityes of such their prescription 1. Tim. 3. 7 that is still and perpetuallye to binde the Church 2 But such is the order which now we speake of as may appeare by the 1. King 23. 9. and by the 44. of Ezech 13. 14. 15. c 3 Wherefore this order must be kept holy and vndefiled We know it will be obiected that these commaundementes be in the olde Testament not in the new and that they are ceremoniall They who shall so obiect must consider the old Testament is of equal authority with the new and therefore seeing God hath once established this law for the Church-ministery they must not repeale it but by the same authoritie vnlesse they will make with y â— Manichees one iust God for the law and an other mercifull for the Gospel So that vnlesse it maye be shewed eyther that this law was onely a shadowe for a tyme to come or was made for some cause peculier for that tyme and those persons which they can not doe because of the perpetuall equityes before assigned It followeth that this must stande for an holy and induring constitution of God And in trueth such aunswere vndermineth at once both the glorye and perfection of God his holy Scriptures not onelye in our iudgement but in the iudgement of all wryters holy and prophane who haue continually alleadged the sentences and commaundementes of the olde Testament euen for the matters of the gouernment of the Church The Apostle prooueth the mayntenaune of the Ministerye for preaching of the Gospell by the lawe made for the maintenaunce of the Priestes in the 1. Cor. 9. he prooueth women ought not to exercise authority by the places of Genesis and in the first of Tim. 2. Cyprian as all know that read him prooueth the election of the people by the place of Numbers and that men are not to attempt further then their calling by the places of Dathan Abiram Uzza in the carrying of the Arke and such lyke If this exception serue howe shall we any longer with the Fathers and Godly wryters of our age stoppe their mouthes for the proofe of the Baptisme of Children with the reasons from Circumcision drawne out of the lawe Nay that they maye see they can not vndermyne the gouernment of Christe with such aunswers but they must also shake the brazen Pyllers of the Sacred authoritye of the Magistrate Let them shew with what Argumentes they can stoppe the Mouthes of Papystes in maintayning the Supreame authoritie of the Prince and our moste gratious Soueraigne in Ecclesiasticall causes to reforme religion according to Gods word to plant Church-officers by the rules of the same and according therevnto to depose Abiather and set vp Sadotk to call synodes Ecclesiastical when need is or when the Church-gouernours neglect their dutye other then by the examples of Ezechias Solomon Jehoshaphat Josias and by the pregnant reasons drawn from them Wherfore let them leaue these euasions and shifts vnto popish diuines to whom they appertaine But least they should thinke we haue but one piller to vpholde this trueth and that onely in the olde Testament let them answere the reasons following out of the newe If Paule did rightly think It so vnlawfull to take Mark such a one as went from them from Pamphilia and accompanied them not vnto the worke y â— he would rather be at sharp strife with Barnabas the sonne of consolation and be seperated from so worthy a companion in all his labors then accept Mark herein being iustified aboue Barnabas by S. Luke
both in assigning of these iust causes of S. Pauls refusall and giuing the Testimony of the Churche to Paul who commēded him to y e grace of God of both which cōcerning Barnabas he keepeth silence Then by how much more right may and ought we to striue with such as haue not only left the work of the Lorde but haue beene annointed with the filthy grease of the vncleane priesthoode and haue receiued the balde marke of the beast and haue in continuall ministry blasphemed the most holy that they should not be taken againe into the fellowship of this worke and seruice of the Gospell Lastly when as the Apostle requireth y ◠all Ministers must haue a good Testimony of those who are without least he fal into the reproch and snare of the caueller 1 Tim. 3. 7. howe cā they auoid this reproch who are to be taunted with their back-sliding with the turning of their coates and with high treasons againste their GOD how are not they in danger of the snare who haue opened a way vnto Sathan and the world how they may deal with them already Nowe vnto this deuine voyce of the Prophets we add the reuerend though humane testimony of auncient time Wherein the sentence of the generall Councel of Carthage alleadged before vs by Cyprian is of most reuerend account Cyprian lib. 1. epist 4. And there be other both many and grienous faultes wherewith Basilides and Marshall are inwrapped such do in vaine go about to occupy the place of a Byshop seeing it is manifest that such men may not gouern the Churche of Christ nor offer vp Sacrifices vnto God Especially when of late both with vs and with all the byshops in the worlde euen Cornelius also our fellow in ministry peaceable and iust and whom the Lord vouchsafed the honour of a Martyr decreed that such men might be admitted to repentance but should notwithstanding be kept from the cleargy or ministery By which also it is manifest y ◠this Counsel was not that prouinciall which concluded rebaptization whereunto Cornelius neuer consented And how Cyprian himselfe mainteineth our reasons may appeare by his discourse in the 7. Epist lib. 1. and his wordes following How dare he challenge vnto him the ministery which he hath betrayed as though it were lawfull after hauing beene at the Alter of the diuell to come vnto the Alter of God And againe Seeing therefore the Lorde threatneth such tormentes and punishmentes in the daye of his wrath to such as obey the Deuill and sacrifice to Idolles howe can hee thinke that he may doe the office of the minister of God which hathe obeied and serued the priests of the deuils or howe doth hee thinke that his hand can be translated to the sacrifice praier of the Lord which was captiue to sacriledge such a crime These may suffice for this point that after we haue mainteined the due honour of God his Embassadors we should also maintain the iust lawfull and holy authority committed vnto them of God Of the authoritie of Ministers of the Worde COncerning the authority of Ministers he speaketh thus Page 53. And heereuppon I woulde bee resolued by the Authour or some other whether hee thinke this indowment of euerye Minister with the execution of all dicsipline admitting but not graunting it to be so by law to be a conuenient pollicy for the vnity quiet of the Churche And whether he him selfe had not rather be vnder the forme now in practize in regard of his owne contentment then vnder the infinite dictatorship of his owne minister or else whether shoulde appellations frō the iudgement of the minister in this respect be allowed of and whether to the byshoppe or to whome and whether the Byshop by this interpretation of lawe shall not retain his authority of executing the Discipline of the Church vpon euery particuler minister and in euery seuerall parish as afore time seeing the authour sayth as well as the Byshop in his diocesse And if he shall what if the Byshop vppon good cause and for abusing of the authority shall suspende the Minister from his iurisdiction of executing Discipline is hee not at the same point he was before what if the Byshop him-selfe dwell in the parish who shall then haue the preheminence and what if the ministers discretion serue him vpon some small or surmised cause to excommunicate some great pear or noble counseller of his parish whose indignation may turne the whole Church to greate mischeefe or to proceede against his Patrone who peraduenture hath a bōd of him to resign And a little after page 54. The author seemeth to me to deuide the discipline of the Church which he would intitle euery Minister vnto into admonition denuntiation and excommunication If by denuntiation he meane the publishing of Excommunication done by him selfe then is it a part thereof If as I rather think he mean the second degree of proceeding vpon faults not publike specified in the 18. of S. Mathew then is this common with the minister vnto all other Christians euen as admonition is being the first degree And where the minister is the party offended and hath not preuayled neither by his admonition in priuate nor his denuntiation before two or three to whome shall hee tell it in the third place where he himself hath the authority to excommunicate and a little after in this respect hee calleth the Ministers priuate and inferiour And againe pag. 59. Yes truely as was touched afore they doe and may execute the discipline of declaring by doctrine according to the Worde of God mens sins to be bound or losed and the censure of rebuking and prouing openly those that doe freeze in the dregges of theire sinnes which are not the leaste partes of discipline which is as much as for auoiding intollerable inconueniences which otherwise would insue as is expedient to bee attributed to euery one c. A little after And if no especiall preeminence might be attributed in matter of execution of discipline to one minister aboue another why is it sayde by S. Paul excommunicating the incestuous Corinthian Absens decreui being absent I decreed seeing they had Ministers of their own and willed the denuntiation afterward to be done openly in the Church And at the time of his absolution Paul being absente saith to whom you forgiue any thing I forgiue also likewise speaking of the Anathematisme of Hymenaeus and Alexander I haue giuen them vp vnto Sathan not naming their owne Minister or any segniory Againe fol. 61. But if hee meane the discipline passiuely I thinke hee and his fellowes haue had some wrong at the cheefe prelates hands a great while If actiuely that euery minister without check might haue the execution of all discipline in his owne Parish I do verily beleeue that this man and others who so earnestly call for they knowe not what If they might not be them selues also Elders auncientes or what you will
sauing Priests of the Seigniory would be the the first weary of it For if I knowe their disposition they are as vnpatient as any men to bee at controlment and moste of all by a poore Minister It hath alwaies bene the practise of y e subtile Serpent who that hee might vndermine the authorye of Gods Embassadours and bring the Messengers of the most highest vnto disgrace to lift vppe some who neglectinge the moste essentiall duetyes of a Pastoure and Elder in feeding the flockes and being a Pattern in their whole life and example vnto them are wont to climbe into the ambitious throne of exercising a vsurped ecclesiasticall Dominion and a Lordship ouer their fellow-ministers that whilste by their place and pompe they might amaze the people as beeing men of great learning and wisedome and might also by their authority make the poore Ministers as the aunswearer sayth Priuat Ministers to speake when they wil wryte to what they list and to be their Commissaries cryer y t is their mās man to promulgat his sentence of excommunication at his pleasure hee might also bring to passe that which the Prophet Jeremy complayneth of in both The Prophets prophesie for reward and the Priestes exercise dominion * by their meanes and my people loue it so and what will they doe in the ende Which we see hath not onely won much vnto the cause of Sathan in popery but also it keepeth much power vnto him amongest those who do professe the Gospell For by this meanes it commeth to passe that they will goe 5. mile to heare a Lord preach when they will hardly come to Church to heare their owne Pastour By this meanes they becomme so irreuerent or rather sawcie with their Pastour that they care no more for his admonition and rebuke then for the bleating of a sheepe by this meanes they maye call him before a Commissarye a lay-man as he speaketh they may fetch out Excommunications thicke and three-folde if hee appeare not and so not only not haue him not to exercise dominion ouer them which Peter forbiddeth but also be Lordes ouer their Pastour beeing but priuate personnes which the lawe of reason disaloweth Which pollicy of Sathan although it become odious in the sight almost of all men but especially of true and louing subiects who are greeued that some not onelye exercise Lordship ouer theire fellow-ministers but also pearche so high as they pray vpon the right of princes whilste they forsoothe may not eate flesh in Lent or on a Fryday but by a Byshoypes lycense yet this man who hath giuen his tong leaue to reuile the Ministers with diuers slaunders reproches cannot content himselfe with that but must open his mouth against the due authority of the Ministers of Jesus Christe In which respect wee account our selues bounde by the Canonicall obedience which we owe vnto y e Archbishop of our soules Jesus Christ according to y e Canons which he hath made in his worde first to shew how this man disordereth y e questiō according to his maner voweth consent as it seemeth with the Jesuits in these his assertions proofs and then hauing discussed his allegations to confirm the plain truth by holy authority of scripture and worthy witnes of ancient times In the entrance therfore the Answerer is not content only to fly from y e issue whether according to the word of God the minister shold exercise the censures of the Church according to y ◠word of God which with vs is executed by Commissaries meere lay-men vnto another thing namely what inconueniences the excommunication committed to the pastor might bring but also to set vpon a matter neuer affirmed by vs that a minister should without the rest of the ecclesiastical senate perform this thing His agreement with the Papists may appeare manifestly by their Annotation the 4. ver of 5. cap. 1. Cor. Their wordes are these Though he commanded the Acte shoulde be done in the face of the Church as such sentences and censures bee at this day executed also yet the iudgement and authority of giuing sentence was in himselfe and not in the whol multitude as the Protestants and populer sects affirm Wherfore seeing his cause is that which is betweene the sworne enimies of GOD and his Church we are not to fear but the truth which hath preuayled so often against them shall also carry the Garland from this newe Wrestler His first reasons are drawne from the inconueniences which hee thinketh will come vnto the Church by this means as requiring rather like a Ciuilian not a diuine what is safe then what is according to God his wil Amongst which he demaundeth whether the Authour had not rather be vnder the forme that nowe is then vnder the infinite dictatorship of his owne minister which I aunswere by another Question why should the ministers censures proceeding by the equall authority of an Eldership vpon causes determined by God his worde in a small volume be more infinite then y e Commissaries who cannot but proccede according to the infinite and contradictorye Canons of their Law who can excommunicate vpon non apparaunce for a matter of 12 pence Is it liker that one Minister shal haue many elders more tied to his wil pleasure then one Commissary his own affections Againe may not their appeale from one Eldership to a Conference or assemblie of many Ministers and Elderships be as safe as from the Commissary to another Byshop And if it were granted that the Byshop should haue authoritye in euerye particuler Churche yet with the Ministers consent vnlesse he will iustle one lawe against another why were it not more reasonable safe then as it is nowe in the Byshoppe alone Seeing then the Minister might haue more particuler knowledge of the causes in his Congregation then the Byshop and yet if hee were rash the Byshops wisedome might stay him And if the Byshoppe shoulde suspende the Minister vppon abuse of his authoritye yet hee were not at the same poynt he was before because then they which did not abuse their authoritye mighte exercise it still And if the Byshoppe dwell in the Parish and had preheminence yet hee shoulde not draw the execution of Discipline to himselfe onely but to holde it in common with him But what doe I answering his cauelles agayuste the Lawe seeing I doubt not but the Abstractor will soone aunswere his cauill in this behalf For the fountayns which are in his Booke already are not yet dammed vp by the answerer Wherefore I passe to his incōuenience which he fetcheth from the want of discretion in y ◠Minister which is What if hee vpon want of discretion doe excommunicate some greate peere of his Parish vppon some surmized cause whose indignation may turne the whole church to great mischeefe To this I answere that vnlesse the Byshops seat aboue a Pastors be so sanctified as Hierome sayth by humain constitutions as that it can alwaies proceede with
matter of the Sacrament of the vbiquiti other points may be reiected of y e papists and their reason must be held as good because they haue as learnedly and truly gathered our diuersities betweene our selues inconueniences following vppon our Doctrine as this man hath doone in the matter of Ecclesiasticall Discipline Next vnto this fowle iniury done vnto religion his iniury done vnto so many worthy lerned men which haue so well deserued of the Church of God nay his inuiry done vnto all the reformed Churches in setting them together by the eares in slaundering them to like of vphold and maintain such a gouernment as hath no witnesse of the Scriptures or ancient times thogh they main tayne it by both such as bringeth with it not onely a maze and labarinth vnto all common-weales but which is at flat ennemity with Princes ouerthroweth their gouernment in Ecclesiastical causes and by sudden alteration turneth euery thing vpsie-downe Which reproch though it be so apparaunt as his owne conscience smote him with the gylce of it so as he would fayne auoyd the shame of it by colourable protestation and that before God not to derogate from any tollerable order established in these externall matters yet he cannot chuse but charge them that they make Princes raunge with the rest of their Seniours and Church-gouernours and that they debar princes of that right of gouernment in matters and ouer persons Eeclesiastical which the word of God al the examples of godly kings of Iudae doe aford vnto vs. The falsehoode of which is not onely manyfest by this witnes of haste as good as a thousand agaynst him but also by the testimonye which so manye worthy wryters nay Princes and Magistrates in their practise and confessions haue giuen to the same Now when the Christian Reader hath considered of this iniurye donne vnto GOD and his Church to vnderstande also firste that these are but Rapsodies gathered at leasure boasted of cast in the teth of some long since such as had other-wyse been vttered ere this but that no market would serue so well this Secondly that although He do as Sanballet send vs in wryting worde that we woulde builde vp the wall of Ierusalem and make our selues kinges when these thinges come to passe and that we set vp Prophetes which may preach of vs at Ierusalem there is a King at Iuda euery Pastor will be Pope yea and aboue the Prince in his Presbytery Yet with good Nehemias we can truely aunswere There is none of these thinges done but thou dost inuent them in thine hart and that all this is but to cast a feare vnto vs for they say their handes shall be weake from this worke that they perfect it not And therefore that our remedy is seeing we vse no meanes but by supplication but by manyfestation of the truth and seeke for nothing but Discipline which by the booke of ordination we promise to further according to our power euē to pray with the sayde Neh. Confirme O God our hands The first contradiction interlased with a lie that they make him Antichrist which refuseth the Presbytery is y ◠we vrge this as perpetual out of the place of Timothy which Caluin doth referre to his ministery which is no contradiction seeing if it be referred to his office yet it being a peece of Timothies office to procure that the thinges which he had learned of Paule shoulde be kept according to their nature and difference perpetually in the Church it sufficiently prooueth the matter in hande otherwise how Could he keepe it vntill the comming of Christ Like to that is the allegation out of the French discipline that those articles which were there contayned touching discipline are not so setled amongst vs but that the vnity he should say vtility of the church so requiring they may be chaunged which I saye is a meere cauill for they speak not nor meane not it of the substance of discipline contained in y ◠word but their maner of setting it downe according to the circumstaunces of their time as is plaine by Their title which calleth it but the firste cast brought of the substance of it as it is contayned in the Scriptures of the Apostles Which substaunce they were not so mad to change though they iudged they might alter thē in many points of circūstances For these sily contradictions let him take these monstrous ones proceding from this y ◠they wil not acknowledge the perfection of y ◠scriptures cōcerning discipline One nūbring vp as a circumstance to come clothed or naked to the supper of the Lord saith of those circūstances None of these circumstances are commauded in the Scriptures nor can by necessary collectiō be granted yet he knoweth it doth necessarily appertaine to comelines The next is that the Abstractor saith the Ministers ought not to wrest any thing into the gouernment of the church without due authoritie from the magistrate which he would haue contrary to that of the admonition M. Cartwright that our life must not be deare as thogh we can not by suffering if need were for so the condition is put aforde that without doing any thing which hath not due authority from the Magistrate His mingling of our sentence with Brownes is but a malitious proceeding Seeing him-selfe testifieth after that wee doe more then mislyke his doinges and writinges in respect of such proceedinges Like to this is that he alleadgeth out of Iunius that if the Prince doe hinder the building of the Church the people may by force of armes resist him Which as it is not in the Page which he noteth nor in all his booke of Discipline so how malitious a slander it is brought vp vpon so worthy a seruaunt of God maye appeare by his whole treatise of the ciuill Magistrat Lib. 3. cap. 5. Where hauing shewed how the Magistrate cannot alter the substantiall poyntes of Discipline and handled that question to one obiecting What shall the Church doe if it be by the Magistrates authoritye commaundement threatning and violence compelled Hee aunsweareth If the Magistrate ordayne any thing contrarie to God his worde that the Ministers shoulde plainly and modestly declare with Paule that they can do nothing against but for the truth But if the thinges be not contrarye to the truth and necessitie that the Churches are bound rather patiently to beare it then to bring the holy ordinaunce of God their body and the common peace into daunger Concerning excommunication shall be spoken after The booke he nameth of obedience I haue not The other matter out of the book deiure Magistratum as not pertayning to vs I purpose not to meddle with especially considering he handleth it more like a Lawyer then otherwise But after he hath alleadged testimonies to prooue that Which none but Papistes and Annabaptistes will deny that it is traiterous to teach the people that they shoulde owe no
Churches in his dominions both lawfully may by duety ought not onely to disanull what-soeuer election the Elders and people haue vnlawfully made but also by his ciuil preeminence to compell them to make a newe election according to the Worde of God Which as it is as much as the sole election by the Byshop giueth to the Prince yea or rather more so if they can shew any further thing due vnto the Magistrate all such as with a sincere minde seeke for the reformation of the Church are alwayes as readye with all humblenesse to giue it as they will be willing with singlenesse to shew it To the place of the Councell of Laodicea and Origin let this be the aunswere The meaning of the Councell in those words Non populo concedendum electionem facere c. We ought not to giue leaue to the people to make electioÌ„ is they shold not bear y e whol sway without the gouernment or direction of the Elders and not to shut out the due consent of the people as is manifest by the counselles going afore as shall hereafter appeare against which this counsell woulde not haue decreed vnlesse it had repealed the same or shewed some reason but most of all by Counselles following who haue authorized the consent of the people and namely the 4. of Carthage which was confirmed in the sixt generall Counsell at Trullum together with that of Laodicia which would not haue confirmed contrary decrees The wordes are these When he speaking of the bishop shal be examined in al these and founde fully instructed then let him bee ordayned with the consent Clericorum laicorum of the Clearks lay men As for that of Origin it is nothing to the purpose which hee sayth of the people except there could be some priuiledge shewed that partly the same or such like as daungerous infirmities were not to be founde in a Byshop The next reason maketh as much against the election of Byshops as of the people seeing they may bee hypocrites as well as the people in all mens iudgement one man is sooner carried with ambition couetousnesse then an whole Church of godly Elders and Christian people vnto disorder And if for the contentions striuings of y â— people y e church may abrogate the consent of y e people in Ecclesiastical elections theÌ„ may she by the same authority disanull Synods and Counselles which as often haue beene full of rage and vprores and of which Nazianzen saith He neuer sawe good issue but that thorough merueilous ambition desire of contention thinges out of order were not remedied but made worse Epist 42. ad procopt Neither for this cause as the promise of God made to counsels is not lightly to bee regarded so ought hee not thus prophanely to reiect it when it is brought to vphold y t consent of y e people Further wher as he saith that Churches both of elder later times haue for that cause abandoned such elections it is to be thought he can bring as much for the proofe of it as hee hath already alleadged which is nothing Whatsoeuer hee can doe the Doctrine of the auncient Fathers and the examples of the elder Churches is farre otherwise For Chrysostome vpon Actes 1. aunswering the Question why Peter communicated the election with the Disciples saith Least the matter should be turned into a brawle and haue fallen to a contention For the elder Churches he cannot be ignoraunt how many haue beene troubled with such inconueniences and yet haue not sought such extream remedies nay the example of good Constantine the Emperour is notable who when the citizens of Nicodemia had chosen an Arrian a runnagate and a rayler on the Emperour he did not take awaye the Churches consent but by his Letters according to his duety mooued them to a newe Theodoret lib. 1. Cap. 19. Againe if these infirmities of the people bee a good reason to take away their libertye in the Election of their Ministers then the contrary vertues which oftentimes haue beene found in them in staying the rage of the Scribes and Pharisies Mat 21. 26. Actes 3. 26. in preferring catholique persons before Arrians and in being themselues catholiques when their Byshops haue been heretiques Zozo lib. 7. cap 7. Theodo lib. 2. cap. 7. is a good reason to maintaine their liberty â—till As concerning his questions following which as they declare rather a mind giuen to cauell at that which he cannot by sound reason auoyde so are they easilye aunswered out of the course and proportion of trueth in the Scripture Women not being in the seate of Magistracy are forbidden by the Apostle to speak in such publique assemblies and exercise authority ouer men Which rule being spoken of y â— mother doth also barre children and such as shall bee in greater subiection vntill by yeares and Christian knowledge they shall by the iudgement of the Church growe vnto the liberty of Christians in that behalfe and then if they followe the greater and better part their sentence ought to preuaile As for the Question of the Patron seeing it is a constitution not of God but of man let the wise and skilfull lawyers define so they do no iuiury to the holie trueth of GOD and his Church The next Question is vayne and friuolous For first by due authoritye diuers be propounded and the Church consent to haue one of them it must needes bee that hee which is approued of the Elders and hath most voices must receiue the charge seeing that can not be sayde to be done with generall consent which thing the Scripture giueth to Church-elections where the fewest but where the moste directed aright do agree And as for them that be absent sicke or imployde if they haue any thing of waight to signify to the Church the Church is to harken vnto them by whome soeuer they sende their aduise And as it is no reason that when eyther sicknesse or theire duetie to the Church doe withhold them that shoulde abridge that libertie so if by negligence or wilfulnesse they bee absente after competent warning the whole Churche is not to depend vppon them who doe not so much loose as cast awaye theire interest in the election Lastly who seeth not that anye idle brayne may make these and such like demaundes both against the rules in the Scriptures and the obseruation in the primitiue Church Where he sayth that in the sixth of the Actes was not done by anie expresse commaundement of Christe but vppon the mutinye of the Greekes agaynst the Hebrewes as it is to bee graunted that it was an occasion why the people did present so that was no cause of their free consent is manifest by the other places where that is maintained without any particuler cause Actes 1. and Cap. 14. If Actes 6. speake of Deacons onely yet Actes 1. Actes 14. speake of Apostles and Elders and theire election by the consent of the people And if the peoples consent
or plainly directly or indirely with protestatiō or without to defend or any way vphold such a base ministery But seeing it is the righteous iudgement of God vpon all our vnrigteousnesse but especially vppon their sinne who haue admitted tollerated and defended such vnsauory salt that instead of putting them to their right vse which our sauiour sayth is to bee cast on the dung-hill and to bee troden vnder the feet of men they do not only not remoue the stincking snuffe out of the candlesticke to place the bright-shining candle in their roome but also hauing cast downe a third parte of the starres from Heauen vnto the earth doe still by publique writing vnderprop suche crazed and rotted pillers It shall be expedient before the particuler examining of his seueral allegations to let the world see how that while they are strugling with the light of their owne conscience the Lorde as the Apostle sayth hath made their madnesse manifest to all men For when as they should haue bene mooued with the pitifull bowels of our Sauiour Christe who had compassion on the people though they came to his preaching and had their doctors and teachers of the Lawe such as they were in euerye Towne and Uilladge as sheepe scattered without a shepheard they haue made themselues a laughing stocke vnto the prophane but a pitty and heart-bleeding to the godlye by their ridiculous aunsweres open shiftings contradictiōs assertions and by such positions as come nearer to the prophane spirite of the Jesuites then to the holy Doctrine of any old or new writer of whome this question hath beene handled For how vnsauory is it For to decline the sharp stroke of Gods worde hee is faine to turne the rule of the Apost 1. Tim. 3. Which by Councels and Fathers is made an ordinary rule for the examination of those which stande to bee admitted into the ministery into a Platonical Idaea which should neuer be found in any And to shift of the plaine forme of their ordination wherein they are willed to receiue authority to preach the word he sayth that It is not in vain but to instruct vs forsooth that mere lay-men are not inhabled to this office as though ther were no booke to learne that lesson vnlesse the Byshop taught it by giuing authority to ignoraunt men to open their mouthes in preachiuge which after by a straight charge he is faine to sowe vp And lastly to leaue out other which the wise reader maye easilye see going aboute to prooue reading to bee a kinde of preaching he is dryuen to demaunde whether declaring of the Worde in the mother tongue be not a kinde of declaration c. Secondly what open shifts are these to couer the shame of thē who ordained ignoraunt Ministers hee is compelled to aske What if hee made him not or that the Parish were little or poore When in his own conscience he dareth not deny and all the worlde knoweth such are dayly made and as though fewenesse or pouertie deserued a blinde guid that they might both fal into the ditch Againe how simple and naked was that where to excuse the colde exhortatious of the ignorant Ministers he is forced to say that they are as profitable as they who through more audacity take vpō thē to preach come iust as nere the text as Iarmās lips are said to come together as if one to shew y ◠goodnes of y ◠pestilent feuer should alledge y ◠commodities of the plague Also how is this whole discourse at war with it selfe for to defend vnpreaching Ministers he challengeth mē to proue it simply vnlawfull to ordain men ministers of the Worde and Sacramentes which cannot preach when in another place he is driuen to confesse y t they receiue authority to preache to teach thē that they are addicted to the same as a thing incident to their office Which is as much to say Al ministers must receiue authority to preach as a thing incidēt to their calling yet some ministers may be ordained to the ministery of the Word Sacraments only y t is must receiue no authority to preache Nowe what concord ther is betweene him the Iesuites let this comparisō following declare They say vpon 17. vers of 1. Tim. cap. 5. Wee may note that all good Byshops and Priestes of those dayes were not so well able to teach as some others and yet for the ministery of Sacramentes and for Wisdome and Gouernment were not vnmeete to be Byshops and Pastours He sayth that they may bee Ministers of the Word Sacraments though they cannot preache They say Although it be due high commendation in a prelate to be able to teach as the Apostle before noteth yet al cā not haue the like grace therein it is often recompensed by other singuler giftes no lesse necessary He saith y ◠the aptnes to teach is an high eminent Idaea of y e Apostle rather declaring what is requisite in a Minister then what is necessarily required They say some times and countries require more preaching then others He saith vnpreaching Ministers are fitt for small Congregations though not for populous and troublesom people In all which let the reader mark whether the Jesuits be not one step nerer the trueth then he Now although this be bee sufficent to bewray the aunswerers halting yet because a great muster of faint Souldiers is thought to bee a mighty armye till being incountered withall they bee seuerally scattered and put to flight it is necessary to meet euery one of this valiant host hand to hand And first we ouerthrowe his Idaea which serueth for nothing else but to set out the holy Cannons of the Apostle to the laughter of all prophane men by these reasons following 1 Whatsoeuer the Apostle inferreth vpon the worthy worke of a Byshop or Ministers office as that which must be in him for y ◠necessity of that work or for the necessary adorning of it the same cannot be such an Idaea 2 But the Apostle hauing saide that hee that desireth a Bishoppes charge desireth a worthy worke thereon concludeth 3 Therefore he must be apt to teach Wherefore seing he sayth Dei einai didacticon y t is he must be apt to teach how dare he say it is onely good and requisit or an Idaea which a Minister cannot attaine vnto for if he can not be so apt to teach as is there required thē it followeth he must not be apt to teach seeing in y e gouernment of y ◠Church a man must not be y ◠he cannot be althogh in the perfection of God his Lawe which was giuen to shew man his sinne and that man could fulfill the same yet in the rules of the church-gouerment it is farre otherwise which are set downe for a direction to the Church in their triall who are fit to such or such offices Secondly if that property of being apt to teache bee an Idaea that is an imagination
true 1 That which the Apostle maketh the iudgement of a particular Congregation that must needes appertaine to the Pastor and the rest of the Elders as the gouernours and to the people as consenters 2 But this the Apostle plainelye expresseth 1. Cor. 5. 12. Why iudge you not those who are within Seperate him therefore from amongst you 3 Therfore it is true which we affirm If it be the especiall dutye of the Pastor by the authority of the Eldership to deliuer the holye Sacramentes to the worthy and detayne them from the vnworthy Then vnlesse he should be compelled to gyue them to the vnworthye and with-hold them from the worthy excommunication muste belong to him with his fellow Elders But the first is manifest by these Scriptures Leuit. 10. 11. Zephan 3. 3. They haue polluted the holye thinges And 1. Cor. 11. 26. 27. Wherefore our assertion is true The consequent of the firste part is manyfest because he must deliuer them to all not suspended and excommunicated and to the rest hee must not The consent of the auncient tymes agree vnto this The counsell of Arles 2. Can. 30. authoriseth the suspencion which the Elders and Clearkes decree against the Bishop And they doe it by the authority of auncient decrees Also seeing the councels conclude both generallye that the Bishop shall not proceed in any cause of gouernment Ecclesiasticall without the Elders and that they shall not ordayne without them and that they alone can not so much as gyue leaue to any of the Cleargy to goe vnto the Widowes or Uirgins but with the consent of the Elders it followeth much more that they mighte not excommunicate without them Now the first sort are directly prooued by these Canons following Concil Carthag 4. cap. 23. That the Bishops heare no cause without the presence of his Clearkes otherwise the sentence shall be voyde vnlesse it be confirmed by the presence of the Clearkes And the 22. That the Bishop ordayne not Clearks without the counsell of his clearks so that he seeke the assent and leaue or conniuence testimonie of the citizens Canon 3. An Elder when he is ordayned the Bishop blessing him holding his hand vppon his heade let also all the Elders which are present holde their handes by the handes of the Bishop That the Clearkes or those who containe come not to the Widowes or Virgins but by the commaundement or permission of the Bishops and Elders And Can. 32. That the Elder reconcile not the penitent not hauing asked councell of the Bishop Ierom. ad demetri 1. Epist The Elders in other censures of the Church and the Church hath interest in excommunication Cyprian lib. 3. Epist 19. Speaking of excommunication of which vntill we shall haue vnderstanding what he haue done after which thing when it regardeth the Counsell and sentence of vs all I dare not preiudicate the matter and draw it only to my selfe And lib. 3. epist. 14. epist 15. epist 16. and August speaking of the elders saith because all thinges in tradition of the Lord are done by the holie Ghost therefore when a rule and forme of this Discipline is deliuered vnto them it is sayde vnto them receiue the holy ghost because it doth truly appertaine to ecclesiasticall righte whose sinnes you forgiue c. Of the Doctor or teacher that he is an ordinary and perpetuall officer in the Church of Christ distinct from the Pastor by the Worde of God COncerning which y â— words of y â— answerer are these And I hope that the authour will not heereby gather that by law nowe in force a man is vtterly simplie forbidden to haue an other preach in his cure for then all our new doctours De robe curté who iutrude themselues vppon must bee faine to giue ouer their cloakes and put vp their Pipes fol. 41. If this had bene directed against the particuler persons of some it had beene beyond the rule of charitie and modesty though he should be a Doctor who spake it thus to slaunder any with intrusion and hauing nothing to saye to their doctrine and lyues to gybe at the apparel which they weare in iourney or otherwise vpon occasion being both sober and graue yea when as commonly they vse a gowne with as much grauitie lesse flanting then the most of their Doctors consecrated according to the order of men and not of God But now that it is brought to deface as shall be proued the ordinaunce of God thus without all proofe to flout and to taunt the officers of God beseemeth neither the grauitye of a Cambridge Doctor nor the modesty of a Christian nor the ciuility of an honest man Their intrusion forsooth is this that hauing first according to the order of the Church of England authority to preach they come vpon the earnest desire of the CongregatioÌ„ with the consent of the Pastor vnlesse being no preacher and ignoraunt for enuy he can not beare him to instruct the people with wholsome doctrine out of the true interpretation of the Scriptures their Pipes which he sayth prophanely they may put vp is the Vtteraunce of knowledge a gift of the holy Ghoste which is more sweete to GOD his Children and acceptable to the Lord then al the gilded Organes and Pipes in the Realme For in the spirituall battell their Sound is vncertaine when as these as the Siluer trumpets of Gods sauctuary giue certayne warning to the people to serue the Lorde aright Thus hauing in a worde with as much patience and modesty as the Lord woulde giue me touched not the Salt but vnsauory brine of his floutes hauing no reason of his to deale withall I set downe these following first for profe out of y t scripture then for witnes out of ancient wryters 1 Whatsoeuer the Apostle setting downe the ordinary perpetual members of Christs body in euery particuler Congregation doth make an ordinarie member in the same distintâ—t in his proper workes and action from all the rest the same is a perpetuall ordinary Church-officer 2 But he maketh the Doctor in that reckoning a distinct member hauing a distinct action from all the rest to wit teaching distinguished there from exhortation from gouerning from distributing 3 Wherefore it is plaine that he is a Church-officer ordinary and perpetuall for his giftes and vse are ordinary and perpetuall and also distinguished from the Pastor 1 Whatsoeuer Christe hath giuen to his Church with an ordinary and perpetuall gift for the perpetual work of the ministery gathering and building vp of the Church vnto perfection that is an ordinary Church-officer 2 But so he hath giuen Pastours and Doctors Ephes 4. 11. 3 Therefore both are perpetuall and ordinary officers and by consequent distinct Unto this argument they obiect because the Apostle hauing sayde some Apostles some Prophets some Euangelistes he saith in the last place some Pastors and Teachers which because they are coupled by and they say they
seruice to euil kinges he addeth least this long treatise shoulde seeme altogeather impertinent that he could not chuse but oppose to the fanaticall spirites and traiterous allegations both of these dangerous innouators of the rebellious Papistes But alas why are we poore Ministers as he calleth vs before whom a man of meane estate wil not regard so dangerous He answereth because we would haue our soueraignes kingdome to be holden at the chiefe inferior magistrates the people or Presbyteries deuotion Oh heauen O earth O Lorde our God the searcher of the secreats of all hearts the author of the holy discipline we seek reueale we besech thee our horrible treason bring vpon vs our children for euer vtter cōfusion in this life in y ◠life to come if this wickednes be either intended thought vpon or be likely to follow vpon the discipline which we seeke or vpon our desire of the same If you O you holy fathers and ministers of God which haue writetn for defended mayntained with great danger attained vnto this may not cleare our cause by y ◠vn fained fidelitye which you haue shewed to christian Princes yet let your wisedome experience Oh you Princes and Magistrates which haue receiued it honored it tried it beare witnesse vnto the innocēcie of this cause Shal that which hath bin a friend to magistrates when they were enemies to it be enemies to Magistrats when they should be friends vnto it Shal that which D. Whitgift himself confesseth namely That such Seniors were but long ago worne out of vse For which he alleadgeth the sentence of Ambrose before alleadged shal that I say called for of that holye man become traiterous pernitious to the state Can the office of an Archbishop in the second place of the land doing al that alone and more in Church-matters then the seniours hauing with it ciuil power and authority be free from this suspition and cannot Ministers and Elders of base account in the world medling onely as the Apostles with spirituall matters that according to the word of God be void of al surmize of such vilanous practise can their counsels be accounted safe where none come but themselues whō they wil who are deuoted to their honor kingdome ecclesiasticall And shal the ministers consultations be so fit for such practises where so many Elders as he sayth lay men of all degrees may be present where the Magistrates may haue both their eyes their eares Whose decrees in al matters of greatest waight of Excōmunication Election Abdication ending of common controuersies must come vnder the conscience of all men yea whose whole acts and counsels may easily be seene by the Magistrate who may force them to a new course if they doe any thing preiudiciall to the estate The good king Iehoshaphat according to the Word of God and the example of his father Dauid ordeined besides the Priests and Leuites in all Cities the cheefe of Families for the iudgementes of the Lord and for the matters of God besides others appoynted for ciuill matters called the kings matters Now shall wee thinke that hee coulde not see into the matters of a kingdome and the safety thereof aswell as this man The Princes of Iuda at their returne when their state was subiect vnto so many dangers when their Prophets conspired against them yet vphelde the Ecclesiasticall Presbytery to threaten excommunication and seperation from Gods people to the obstinate sinners as wel they thē-selues did confiscation of goodes and ciuill punishment neither were they euer iealous ouer their estate Wherefore seeing we haue such a cloude of witnesses of these tymes and of former both vnder the law and vnder the Gospel we need not feare but their lying irōforhead in charging vs with such traiterous opinions shalbe manifest to all and shall tourne vppon their owne heades For manifestation whereof let the Magistrates consider what is written of them highly derogatorie vnto their estate and freedome which they make them beleue that they maintaine First they say the forme and maner of Church gouernment may be altered by the Magistrate then they say the externall gouernment of the Church vnder a Christian Magistrate must be according to the forme of gouernment used in the common-wealth Which is flat contrary to that that the Christian Magistrate may alter at their good pleasure Which also driueth the Queenes moste excellent maiesty eyther to part her Crowne with some other or else muste make one Archbishop not only of byshops but also ouer Archb. y ◠in the Church there maye be a Monark as wel as in the common-wealth Againe when they say y ◠Archb. is contayned vnder S. Paules Bishop they leaue it not in the Magistrates power to take away his iurisdiction how daungerous so euer it be to her estate Agayne let them consider into what a low place they bring the Magistrate into in the Church when expounding the place of the Corinthes of him they make him go after the teacher therfore much more after the Archbi Hauing therfore noted these their open contradictions most absurd opinions preiudicial indeed to her maiesties authority let vs ere we passe from this general what the forme of ecclesiastical gouernment is consider once againe of his assertion and see whether it bewray not manifest ignorance containe not cōtradiction repugnance in it selfe and be not highly derogatory to Christ his scriptures His words are these pag. 192. Now as concerning the inward gouernment of the Church of Christ by his spirite God working in his children by the Ministers of his writtē reuealed word also touching the essential poynts of the outwarde policy gouernment of the church consisting in the true teaching of the word of God in the due administration of sacraments according to christs holy institution in the aduancement furthering of vertue with the beating downe of sinne and impiety and in keeking the Church in a quiet vnity and good order there is no difference of opinion amongst vs. And a little after we affirm that no such precise exact forme of external gouerment of the Church by discipline as they depaint it out is so much as by any exāple recōmended vnto vs in scripture but much lesse commanded as a continuall platforme for euer to be followed In which assertion omitting the nakednes of it armed with no proofe out of the scripture or any good reason let vs see how it sheweth such grosse ignoraunce as is not to be lucked for in a man of his gifts for it deleareth that he can not distinguish betweene the cause instrument and meanes of a thing and the thing it selfe betweene gouernment and the essentiall partes of gouernment and the fruits of it For gouerment Ecclesiasticall that is the spirituall administration of Christ by the order and instruments of his Church which he hath ordayned is a different thing from the truth of
not only without reason but also sence contrary to his professed knowledge to proclayme warre amongst the Churches for this matter of circumstaunce when they all haue the substaunce agreed vppon in Gods worde and doe not tye them-selues or others to the particuler circumstaunces It is also as absurde that he setteth downe as a contrarietie to the election of the Elders and people that they allowed the Officers chosen by the Consistorye or by voyces of the people or by one Minister as thogh that were derogatory to a right order to ratifie that by good authority which was at the first imperfectly donne Yet that is most absurde which he doth obtect againste the authour of the Abstract as though he were contrarye to this order because he woulde haue the people giue their consent seeing as hath beene shewed these may not only agree but ought vnseperably to be ioyned togeather in Church-lections For if eyther by silence or otherwyse they signifie their consent and the election be not made but sufficient deliberation be giuen them to shew iust causes of their dislyke or gladly to accept them It is all one as hath beene prooued in the treatise to that purpose In the next obiection he must first prooue that we dissent before he haue an answere for to haue it done by the Consistorye and to adioyne a conference are not contrary The next is answered in the treatise of the election of Church-officers The next is an vntruth For the confirmation De la dis Eccles sheweth that the people giue their consent and approbation according to the 14. of the Actes Page 233. The next we take but for a poore cauil grounded vnlesse hee make it appeare which he speaketh of some which hold it lawfull to picke a quarrel and leaue the ministery vpon a slaunder In deed if at one mans pleasure for truthes sake they be put out to seeke an honest way to lyue is not vnlawfull nor contrarye to the decree of the French Churches that they be chosen to be Ministers their whole life vnlesse they be discharged lawfully vnto which decree all agree The next of depositions receiueth the same answere which the elections doe for the authority which electeth must be that which deposeth and the Discipline of Fraunce meaneth no otherwise And of Excommunication ther is the like iudgement The Author of the Abstract can best expound his meaning and his words bear no such collection as hee gathereth For in saying the Minister may do it and that by Lawe in his charge aswell as the Byshop in his Diocesse He doth not authorize the Byshoppe to doe it alone but with due consent to whome it doth appertaine In the nexte when hee sheweth who that some bee which make decision of controuersies incident to euery Presbytery otherwise then if they can with contentation agree of the trueth amongst themselues we will giue his aunswere to it In the meane time we iudge of it as of the rest that it is vntrue The like of the two other excepting Brown for whome he hath his aunswere and of the next about God-fathers Concerning the next poynt the which he sayth of the Churches of Fraunce that they think it lawfull to baptize without an assembly I can not beleeue it vnlesse I haue better direction then the 7. article of their Discipline in which I can finde no such thing though I finde some other articles there which he hath aledged thence wherefore I feare that it is a fiction Concerning Holy-dayes let him firste shew that the Churches obserue them in maner of a Sabboth wholly to rest from their labour and then T. C. with his reasons or the churches with theirs must giue place to the truth The diuersity about popish Priestes is aunswered before in the tretise of that matter The next are but slaunders to which he gyueth no credite by anye testimonye and are confuted before in the treatise of the Doctor It is also a manifest vntruth that T. C. mislyketh wholly That anye are suffered to preach nor hauing a Pastorall charge For he speaketh generally of such as haue no charge neither Pastorall nor Doctorall For he would haue both tyed to a certayne place yea the Elders Preaching in other mens cures or charges wherevnto men are not lawfully called wee condemne according to the iudgement of the French Churches neither doth he note any wher we might finde the contrarie In ordaining of ceremonies the admonition meaneth no otherwise than the Frenche Churches for though the Eldershippe abollishe those which are vnprofitable yet it may be don with consent alowance of other Churches for which cause hee entreateth of conferences page 30. 31. c. That hee saith of the admonition as though they misliked a prescript forme of prayer is an vtter vntruth for there are not anye wordes which shewe they mislike a prescript forme of prayers As for vnleauened bread it is but proper to Geneua onely now our Church hath alowed the other why should he then make any difference or strife about it The matters of mariage or such like heere named as they are handled with vs are ciuil but as they become doubtfull in any question of God his worde or what is expedient for the Church to doe for auoyding of offence belongeth vnto the Ecclesiasticall seigniorie and so that difference is aunsweared In the other also it is defended as vnlawfull for a Minister of the Worde to be occupied in Ciuill affayres Againste this he in vaine bringeth an exception in Elders which rule onely Neither is it simplye a Ciuill thing to giue testimonies in writinges for to doe it for matters Ecclesiasticall as for soundnesse of fayth for assuring them to be receiued which were excommunicate or such like it is an Ecclesiastical not a Ciuill action Touching the order of the French Church for publishing of Bookes we consent that where the Discipline is established and an order taken that men with modesly in a Synode may be sufficiently heard and satisfied that it ought to be in force and as an Eeclesiasticall order obeyed from which yet a man may swarue being dryuen to gyue defence to the truth of God The next setteth his conceits in the laughter of all men For maye we not mislyke that he which ordayneth shoulde bydde the ordayned receaue the holye Ghoste which he can not gyue nor hath promise that his imposition of handes shall distribute auye gifts and yet alow that that place for instruction be repeated and intreased of Concerning his long srory of subscription this may be sufficient shortly to aunswere both to shew our â—uitye in iudgement with the Churches and also to satisfie the Church of England First therefore we say that we haue alwayes beene readye according to our dutye to subscribe to her Maiesties supreame authority and to the Articles of religion concerning the doctrine of fayth and of the Sacramentes which is all that is requyred by law Secondly when as it is