a Total Dissolution of Ecclesiastical Order and Consequently to a Confusion both in Church and State N. C. I do not find my self much press'd by any thing now offer'd If a Toleration unhinges the Law 'T is but making the Law a little Wider and then that Block is removed And so is the Fear likewise of bringing present Importunities into President For All Tolerable Liberties may be comprehended within that Latitude And as to the matter of Imposing Faction for Conscience such a Probiston secures You as well as the Act for Uniformity C. I have spoken as much as Needs to this Point If you think you have any Right to a Toleration make it out and Approve your selves for a Generation of People to Whom the King may with Honour and Safety Extend a Bounty SECT VII The Non-Conformist's Plea for Toleration upon REASON OF STATE C. THe Ordinary Motives to Indulgence are These Three 1. Reason of State 2. The Merits of the Party 3. The Innocence and Modesty of their Practises and Opinions What have you to say now for a Toleration upon Reason of State N. C. The Non-Conformists are the King's Subjects and What 's a King without his People C. By Birth and Obligation they are the King's Subjects but if they be not so in Practise and Obedience They have no longer any Title to the Benefit of his Protection And such Subjects are the worst of Enemies N. C. You will not deny them however to be a Numerous Party And a People of Conduct and Unity Which puts the Government under some kind of Prudential Necessity to oblige so Considerable an Interest C. If they be consequently Dangerous because they are Numerous The Greater the Number is the greater is the Hazard And therefore because they are many already and will encrease if they be suffer'd They are not to be Tolerated N. C. But Men will be much more Peaceable when they are Indulged then when they are Persecuted C. Now I am perswaded that the Multitude will be much quieter without a Power to do Mischief then with it But what is your Opinion of the Honesty of the Party N. C. I do seriously believe the Non-Conformists to be an Honest Consciencious sort of People C. But they must be Knaves to make Good Your Argument for if they be Honest They 'l be quiet without a Toleration If they be Dishonest They 'l be Dangerous with it Consider again If there be any Hazard it lies not in the Number but in the Confederacy A Million of Men without Agreement are but as One Single Person Now They must Consult before they can Agree and They must Meet before they can Consult So that barely to hinder the Assembling of these Multitudes frustrates the Danger of Them Whereas on the other side To Tolerate Separate Meetings is to Countenance a Combination N. C. Mistake me not I do not say 't is likely they will be troublesome in Respect of their Temper and Iudgments but that they are Considerable enough to be so in Regard of their Quality and Number C. Whether do you take to be the Greater Number Those that singly wish to be discharg'd from the Act of Uniformety Or Those that would have no Law at all Those that are troubled because they may not Worship according to their Fancy Or Those that are displeased because they cannot Live and Rule according to their Appetite The Truytor would have One Law discharg'd The Schismatick Another The Idolater a Third The Sacrilegious Person a Fourth The Profane Swearer a Fifth The False Swearer a Sixth The Murderer a Seventh The Seducer an Eighth And in sine Not One of a Thousand but had rather Command then Obey Shall the King therefore dissolve the Law because there are so many Criminals That were to raise an Argument against Authority from the very Reason of its Constitution Shall the People be left to do what they list because a World of them have a Mind to do what they should not Shall his Majesty give up his Government for fear of some Millions perchance in his Dominions that had rather be Kings then Subjects Less forcible beyond Question is the Necessity of the King 's Granting a Toleration if you reckon upon Numbers then That of Renouncing his Sovereignty For doubtless where there is One Man that is truly Scrupulous there are hundreds of Avaricious Ambitious and otherwise Irreligious Persons N. C. Tell me I beseech you Do not you believe that there are more Nâ—…n-Conformists now then there were at the beginning of the Late War C. Yes I do verily believe Three to One. N. C. Why then 't is at least Three to One against You For at That time the Third Part of This Number was the Predominant Interest of the Nation C. That does not follow for you may remember that at the beginning of the late War The Party were Masters of the Tower The Navy of all Considerable Forts Towns and Magazins They had a great part of the Crown and Church Revenues under their Command and London at their Beck Beside the Plunder of Malignants and the Bountiful Contributions of the Well-affected Scotland was already Confederate with them in One Rebellion and they had made sure of Another in Ireland by Persecuting the Earl of Strafford who was the only Person Capable of Keeping them Quiet Which they further assisted by a Gross Opposition of his Majesties Proposals and Resolutions to suppress it See the King's Speech of Decemb. 14. 1641. and the following Petition concerning the same Finally for the better Countenance of their Usurpations the House of Commons was drawn down into a Close Committee and the Votes of that Iunto were Impos'd upon the Nation as the Acts of a Regular and Complete Authority This was their Condition formerly but blessed be God it is not so at present The Three Kingdoms are now at Peace and we have a Parliament that is no Friend to the Faction The King is Possest of a Considerable Guard which his Royal Father wanted The Militia is in safe Hands His Majesty is likewise possest of his Regal Power and Revenue And his Capital City firm in its Obedience To all which may be added that although divers Particulars are as Wealthy as Pillage and Pardon can make them Yet They want a Common Stock to carry on a Common Cause The Thimbles and the Bedkins fail and the Comfortable In-comes of Irish Adventures Moneys and Plate upon the Propositions Confiscated Estates Twentieth Parts and Weekly Assessments and a hundred other Pecuniary Stratagems are departed from them If it be so that these People have None of these Advantages now remaining by virtue whereof they did so much Mischief before What Necessity of Tolerating for fear of Disobliging Them N. C. However It is not for your credit to say these People want Conduct by whom your selves have been worsted C. The Men that worsted us were a sort of People that Voted down Bishops
Convention Look now a little into the Scotch Affairs and observe the Growth of the Non-Conformists Demands from one thing to another till in the End by virtue of what the King Granted them they possest themselves of all the Rest. In their Tumults says his Majesty they complein'd only of the Service Book In their Petition exhibited to the Counsel they complein'd of the Service-Book and Canons In their Covenant they complein of and Abjure the Five Articles of Perth although Establish't first by a General Assembly and Then by Parliament After This they complein of the High Commission And Then of Prelates Sitting in Civil Judicatories Hereupon His Majesty Commissions Marquis Hamilton with full Power and Authority to Conclude and Determine all such Things as should be found for the Good Quietness and Peace of that Kingdom Directing him also to take the mildest Course that might be for the Calming of those Commotions And what Effect had this Peaceable Inclination of His Majesty upon the Covenanters but to blow them up into more Seditious and bolder Practises against the King's Authority and the Publique Peace They pursue their Demands and Clamour for a Free General Assembly and a Parliament His Majesty gives them all their Askings Indicts a Free General Assembly and a Parliament Dischâ—…rges the Service-Book the Canons High-Commission The urâ—…ing of the Five Articles of Perth Commands the Subscribing of the Confession of Faith and the Band thereto annexed in the very Form which they pretended to Impose And offers them an Act of Indemnity for what was past In all which Condescentions the King's Patience and Mercy only served to heighten and confirm those Men in their Undertaking and to expose his Royal Dignity to Contempt In the conclusion the King had so far gratified their Importunities that they had nothing left to Quarrel upon but His Majesties refusal to Abolish Episcopacy and to admit the Authority of their Lay-Elders From hence they brake out into open Rebellion and when the King had them directly at his Mercy upon the Interview of the two Armies near Berwick such was his Tenderness that upon their Supplication for a Treaty he Trusted them again and Concluded a Pacification whereof the Covenanters observ'd not so much as One Article Upon his Return to London His Majesty as is elswhere observed passes the Triennial Bill Abolishes the Star-Chamber and High Commission Court Passes an Act for the Continuance of the Parliament Not to insist upon the several other Concessions concerning Ship-money Forests and Stannary Courts Tunnage and Poundage Knighthood c. Now in Requital of these Benefits the Faction Claps up and Prosecutes his Majesties Friends Prefers and Enlarges his Enemies Rewards the Scots Entertains their Commissioners Votes Them their Dear Brethren for Invading Us Calls in all Books and Proclamations against them They take away the Bishops Votes Impose a Protestation upon the People Take away the Earl of Strafford's Life Charge Twelve of the Bishops with Treason Declare the King's Proclamations to be False Scandalous and Illegal Keep his Majesty out of his own Towns and Seize his Arms and Ammunition They present Him with Nineteen Propositions for the Resignation of his Royal Authority They Vote a General and Raise an Army against him They Usurp the Power of the Militia and give the King Battel Levy Moneys and Declare the Queen Guilty of Treason After all These Usurpations upon the Civil Power They are put to 't to bring the Cause of Religion once again upon the Stage They enter into a Covenant and call in the Scots again They Abolish the Common-Prayer secure the Person of the King Share the Revenues of the Church and Crown They Sequester Banish and Imprison his Majesties Adherents and in the Conclusion Sell Depose and Murder their Soveraign This was the Fruit of that Pious and Unfortunate Prince his Clemency and Indulgence Now to bring the Instance home to the present Times What could be more Pious Gracious or Obliging then His Majesties Declaration concerning Ecclesiastical Affairs in Favour of the Non-Conformists All that was possible for the King to do in Consistence with Conscience Honour and the Peace of his Dominions His Majesty has therein given them a frank Assurance of with their Lives and Estates over and above in the Act of Oblivion And are they one jote the Quieter for all This No but the Worse for no sooner was the King's Tenderness in That Particular made Publique but the Generality even of those that had lately Entred into a Regular and Dutiful Compliance with the Orders of the Church started into a new Revolt which proves sufficiently the Benefit and Necessity of a strict Rule and the hazzard of a Toleration For rather then abide the Penalty of the Act they could Conform but upon the least Glimpse of a Dispensation they Relâ—…pse into a Schism Neither do I find that they were less Troublesom before the Act of Uniformity when they Preach'd at Randome then they have been since Nor to say the Truth that they have much more Cause of Compleint Now then they had Then For what are they the worse for a Penalty that is never Executed But if you will have a True Measure of their Moderation and Good Nature I pray'e take notice of their Proceedings upon His Majesties Commission for the Review of the Book of Common-Prayer We will appoint says His Majesty in his Declaration concerning Ecclesiastical Affairs an Equal Number of Learned Divines of Both Perswasions to Review the same and to make such ALTERATIONS as shall be thought most NECESSARY So that the Alterations were to be agreed upon by BOTH PARTIES and found likewise to be NECESSARY Now instead of Alterations joyntly agreed upon They Publish a Complete Liturgy of their own indeed a New Directory but under the Title of The REFORMATION of the Liturgie which in all their Books signifies ABOLITION Give me the favour next to observe upon some of their NECESSARY Alterations They have turn'd WEDDED Wife into MARRIED DOEST THOU Believe into DO YOU Believe All this I STEDFASTLY Believe into All this I UNFEIGNEDLY Believe These are some of the Important Scruples that are cast into the Balance against the Unity of the Church and the Peace of the Kingdom What is This but to make Sport with Authority and Conscience Laws must be Suspended Princes Vilified and Importun'd because forsooth the Godly Party may not be Govern'd by Laws of their own making Nay by Words of their own chusing too So that we are like to have a Schism for Syllables as well as for Ceremonies For what is the Difference betwixt WEDDED and MARRIED but that the One wears the Stamp of the Law-Makers and the Other of the Law-Menders Is it not now evident that they are the worse for good usage And that they have ever been so You see the Effects of keeping to a Rule in Queen Elizabeth and King Iames And we have since felt to our Cost
I Answer that First The Doctrine of our Church speaks directly to the Contrary Secondly The Rubrick directs Kneeling at the Confession and the People continue Kneeling at the Receiving N. C. But with your Favour the Rubrick does afresh enjoyn Kneeling and order the Communion to be delivered into the Peoples Hands KNEELING C. Right And now take your Choice whether we shall rather run the hazzard of being suspected to adore the Breed because we receive it after the English Gesture of Worshipping which is Kneeling or incur the same Censure by Changing Posture and taking it after the Ancient way of Worshipping which is Standing If you can make appear that where the Custom was to Worship Standing they Received Kneeling you say something toward the perswading of us that Worship Kneeling to Receive Stà nding Your Exceptions throughout are much of a Quality Negatively Imposing upon Authority because you will not be Positively bound up your selves For You shall NOT do This or That is an Imposition as well as You SHALL Another Humour you have gotten of Scrupling at Ceremonies because they are made as Necessary to Salvation as the Word it self and the Sacraments This is the Suggestion of the Petition for Peace Pa. 8. Whereas it has been and still it is the Constant Care of the Imposers themselves by an express Solemnity of Explanation to satisfie the whole World to the Contrary Give us leave only for one Word more and that out of Calvin's Institutions concerning Scandal Lib. 3. Cap. 19. which you make one part of your Compleint There is says he a Scandal GIVEN and TAKEN The One is the Scandal of the Weak the Other of the Pharisees who out of a pâ—…rverse Malignity of Spirit turn every thing to the worse There is no Yielding to this sort of Men No Enduring no Hearing of them Qui quum in mille Impietatis Formas Duces se praebent sic sibi agendum fingunt ne proximo sint Offendiculo Who under colour of Tenderness in the Matter of Scandal make no Conscience at all of a thousand Gross Impieties This is His Iudgment and Our Case And there is no Remedy but by concluding upon a Final and Unaccomptable Iudge SECT XXI Whatsoever God hath left INDIFFERENT is the Subject of HUMANE POWER C. AS Reasonable Nature consists of Soul and Body so is the Authority that Governs it Divine and Humane God Eminently over All and Princes Ministerially under Him and as his Substitutes The Dominion of our Souls God reserves Peculiarly to Himself committing That of our Bodies to the Care of the Magistrate Now if Power be a Divine Ordinance so consequently is Subjection for to Imagine the One without the Other were to destroy the Reason of Relatives A Strict and Accurate Disquisition of This Matter would save us much Trouble that arises about the Bounds and Limits of our Duty How far Religion binds us and how far Allegeance That they are severable we are not to doubt since Truth it self has said it Give unto Caesar the things that are Caesar ' s and unto God the things that are God's But that they are only so severable as never to become Inconsistent is founded upon the same Immovable Rock Let every Soul be subject c. A Precept of a Perpetual and Universal Operation and Limited neither to Time Place not Persons N. C. Your Deduction of Government and Subjection from Divine Institution is well enough and that we are to Obey the Magistrate for God's sake and in Subordination to God is easily Prov'd and Granted But I hear nothing yet of the Particular Bounds and Terms of Humane Iurisdiction What 't is belongs to God and what to Caesar. C. And That I confess is the Pinch of the Question For One Duty comes up so close to the Other that 't is not for every Common Eye to pass between them Effectually they Touch but in what Point is of a Nice Decision The nearest way to the Knowledge of our Duty is to apply it to the Laws and Powers of the Authority for a Man must first Know the Rule before he can Observe it We are then to consider that the Almighty Wisdom has invested Kings with an Unlimimited Power of Commanding or Forbidding in all Matters which God Himself has not either Commanded or Forbidden Which Proposition resolves it self into This Conclusion Whatsoever God has left Indifferent is the Subject of Humane Power N. C. Does not that Opinion destroy Christian Liberty C. No But the Denial of it destroys Magistracy If Kings have not This Power they have None at all And it Implies a Contradiction to suppose any Authority in Nature without it N. C. But may not a Prince tye himself up in a thing otherwise Indifferent C. I speak of Power according to the Institution not of Power limited by Pâ—…ction N. C. May not the same thing be Indifferent to One and not to Another C. Very Good And will not every thing Imaginable appear Non-Indifferent to some or other if nothing may be Commanded but what upon such a Phansie may be Disobey'd N. C. Pardon me I do not speak of Matters of Civil Concern but of Matters of Religion C. That 's all a Case for you cannot Instance in any One Civil Action that may not be made Relative to Religion But we are now upon the Extent of Humane Power That there is such a Power and That Authoriz'd too by God Himself you have already Granted Let me but understand now Upon what Subject shall that Power be Exercis'd If you exclude Things Indifferent One Man may have a Real Scruple and All the Rest pretend one Who shall distinguish So that the Rule holding from One to All the Sacred Authority of the Prince becomes dependent upon the Pleasure of the Subject and the Validity of a Divine and Unchangeable Ordinance is subjected to the mutable Iudgment and Construction of the People N. C. And you expect the Magistrate should as well have the Authority of Iudging what 's Indifferent as of Restreining it C. You may be sure I do for I am but where I was If I make You the Judge Is it not all one as to the Magistrate whether you Refuse upon Pretense that the Thing is not Indifferent or upon Pretense that He cannot Restrein a thing Indifferent The Crime indeed is differing in the Subject for the One way 't is an USURPATION of Authority and the Other way 't is a DENIAL of it N. C. Why then it seems I am to believe every thing Indifferent which the Magistrate tells me is so be it never so Wicked C. No There you are bound up by a Superiour Law N. C. Have you so soon forgot your self You would not allow me to be a Iudge just now and here you make me one C. Right To your self you are one but not to the Publique you are a Judge of your own Thought but not of the Law N. C. And does not This way of Arguing as much
endanger Authority as the Other For All may Iudge Thus as well as One. C. 'T is possible they may Nay we 'l suppose an Imposition foul enough to move them all to do so and yet there 's a large difference For Diversity of Iudgment does not shake the Foundation of Authority and a Man may disobey a Sinful Command with great Reverence to the Power that Imposes it N C. You were saying e'en now that my Duty to God and to the King could never be Inconsistent How shall I behave my self I pray'e if the King command one thing and God another I cannot observe the Law without violence to my Conscience nor discharge my Conscience without Offence to the Law What Course shall I take to avoid Enterfering C. Demeaâ—… your self as a Christian toward the LAW of God one the One hand and as a Subject toward the ORDINANCE of God on the Other As considering that you are discharg'd of your Obedience in That Particular but not of your Subjection in the General N. C. Put Case the Supreme Magistrate should by a Law Establish a False Worship C. He 's nevertheless your Prince and even in This Complication you may acquit your self both to God and to Caesar. Though the Worship be amiss The Magistrate is yet to be Reverenc'd and you are to divide the One from the Other in such manner as still both to Fear God and Honour the King This Loyal and Religious Separation of our Duties will set us right in the Main Controversie Where do ye find that Kings Reign upon Condition of Ruling Righteously Or that we owe them Less AFTER Misgovernment then we did Before N. C. But do you say we are bound to Honour an Idolatrous Prince This is not according to the Doctrine of many of our Grave Divines C. They are never the Better Divines for That Doctrine The Prince I tell ye you are bound to Honour though not as an Idolater Shall the Vice or Errour of the Person degrade the Order By That Rule The World must continue without a Government till we can find Men without Failings N. C. So that when it makes for your Turn you can Allow I see of Distinguishing betwixt the PERSON and the OFFICE C. Betwixt the Frailty of the One and the Sacredness of the Other I do for Kings Command as Gods though they Iudge as Men. But I do no more approve of Dividing the Person of a Prince from his Authority then of Dividing his Soul from his Body N. C. And I beseech you What is That which you call AUTHORITY C. It is the Will and Power of a Multitude deliver'd up by Common Consent to some One Person or More for the Good and Safety of the Whole And This Representative Acts for All. Now on the other side The Disposition of such or such a Number of Persons into an Order of Commanding and Obeying is That which we call a Society N. C. What is the Duty of the Supreme Magistrate C. To procure the Welfare of the People Or according to the Apostle He is the Minister of God for a Comfort to those that do Well and for a Terrour to Evil doers N. C. How far are his Laws Binding upon his Subjects C. So far as They that Parted with their Power had a Right over Themselves N. C. Whence was the Original of Power And what Form of Government was First Regal or Popular C. Power was Ordein'd of God but Specifi'd by Man And beyond doubt the First Form of Government was Monarchique N. C. But I should rather think the Popular Form was First For how could there be a King without a People C So was the Son before the Father you may say for How could there be a Father without a Son But the Qâ—…estion is First Was the World ever without a Government since the Creation of Mâ—…n Secondly Whether was there first in the World One Man or More But we are not here upon the Form of Government but upon the Latitude of Humane Iurisdiction be the Sovereignty where it will And my Assertion is that It extends to whatsoever God has left Indifferent If you deny This you overthrow all Government N. C And what are you the better If I should grant it unless we could All come to an Agreement about what is Indifferent and what not C. Which must be procured by the Allowance of some Iudicial Authority to decâ—…de it SECT XXII No End of Controversie without a FINAL and UNACCOMPTABLE JUDGE from whose Sentence there shall be no Appeal C. WHen Subjects come once to Dispute Laws The War is already Declar'd against the Government For it is not the Equity or Iniquity of the MATTER of the Law that is the Question but the AUTHORITY of the LAW-MAKER under the countenance indeed of somewhat that might be mended in the Law it self And the Business comes Immediately to This Issue Whether the King or the People shall Determine in what concerns the Good of the Community That is to say Whether the Government shall Stand or Fall Whether or no we shall submit our selves quietly to be over-ruled in all Controversies by a Definitive Sentence of Law according to the End and Intention of Government in its first Institution Or otherwise by receding from that Common Peaceable and Impartial Arbitrator of all our Differences from our Faith given our Oaths and Contracts throw our selves back again into a State of Nature and Dissolution and for want of a Moderator leave all our Disagreements to be decided by the Sword The certain Event of all Popular Appeals from Laws to Multitudes This was tbe Ruine of us in our Late Confusions The Faction you saw could do nothing upon the Suggestions of Right or Wrong Convenience or Inconvenience till they came to make Themselves the Iudges of it And no sooner were they Possest of That Pretension but all went presently head-long to Destruction From Questioning the Legal Power of the King they proceeded to the Exercise of an Arbitrary Power Themselves From Asserting the Subjects Liberties to the Invading of them And from the Reformation of Abuses to the Extirpation of the Government The Two Houses led the Dance and outed the King The Commons did as much for the Lords and the People as much for the Commons Which comes to no more then what was reasonably to be expected upon turning the Course of Publick Affairs into a wrong Channel and subjecting the Indisputable Rights of Sovereign Authority to the Censures and Expostulations of the Rabble N. C. What are those Indisputable Rights I beseech ye C. I reckon among others The Power of Making Laws and likewise of Enforcing the Execution of them without admitting any sort of Demur or Contradiction for let the People break in once upon any One Law and they will hardly quit their hold till they have worm'd out or unsettled all the Rest. In short I do esteem it a matter of Absolute Necessity to the Peace and the very Beeing
Churches by it self or More of them in Combination I will never open my Mouth after it in a Plea for the Independents Presb. It were a hard matter indeed to fasten any thing upon the Principles â—…f a Party that professes to have no Principles but still refers it self to the Guidance of a Further Light Indep And yet you can blame us for our Principles though by your own Confession you know not What they are Now for the Reserve of Acting according to a Further Light It is exprest in the Ordinary Form of our Church Covenant that it is to be reach'd unto us out of the Word which most assuredly will not lead us into any Evil. If this be all you have to say against the Independents I would gladly hear what Defence you are able to make for the Presbyterians Either Simply and in Themselves or else Comparatively with any other sort of People Nay I should not much care if you took the Iesuits Themselves for your Foil Presb. How can you say This Considering that Thundring of Excommunication which has sounded in all Ages since the beginning of the Papal Reign against Kings Emperours c. And These Practises Iustified by their Decretals and Canons Divines of greatest Authority and some of their Councils Ascribing to the Pope a Power of Deposing Princes that are Hereticalâ—… or Favourers of Heretiques The Iesuits Doctrine of KING-KILLING hath made them Odious c. Indep Do you tell us of PAPALEXCOMMUNICATIONS justified by Canons Divines Councils DEPOSING of Kings for Heresie and the Iesuits Doctrine of KING-KILLING c The Disciple should speak Reverently of his Master for I assure you a Iesuits Cloak sits exceedingly well upon the Shoulders of a Presbyterian To Discipline must all the States within the Realm be Subject as well the Rulers aâ—… the Ruled According to the Discipline of the Kirk of Scotland Printed in London 1647. The Person of the Magistrate ought to be Subject to the Kirk Spiritually and in ECCLESIASTICAL GOVERNMENT Submitting himself to the Discipline of the Kirk if he Transgress in Matters of Conscience and Religion Beza Buchanan and in truth the whole Brotherhood are for the Excommunication of Princes So that there 's Presbyterial EXCOMMUNICATION you see as well as Papal And in Case of Superstition and Idolatry the Presbyter can DEPOSE too as well as the Pope in Case of Heresie Was not the Queen-Regent in Scotland 1559. Deposed upon the Encouragement and with the Approbation of Willock Knox and their Fellows As not doing her Duty to the Subjects and as a vehement Mainteiner of Superstition and Idolatry Did not the Commissioners of the Kirk in 1596. threaten an Open Protestation against King Iames and his Council in Case of either Pardoning or Restoring the Popish Lords that were at that time under Banishment As to the Iesuits Doctrine of KING-KILLING We are able not only to Match but to Out-doe it out of the School of the Consistory There is no doubt but the Iesuits are Guilty of Delivering Doctrine that naturally leads to King-Killing Conclusions But do ye find that ever they said in plain Terms It is Lawful for Subjects to take up Arms against their Sovereign in Case of Religion Or that ever they Publiquely Applauded the Murther of a Prince after the Fact was Committed Certainly in this Particular the Consistorian Copy goes beyond the Papal Original Upon a dangerous Uproar that was raised by the Ministers in Edinburgh 1596. The King by Proclamation discharged all Iudicatories from Sitting there Whereupon the Ministers prest a Bond of Association upon the Noblemen and Barons and sent a Letter drawn by Robert Bruce and Walter Balcanquel to the Lord Hamilton to Head them For by the Motion of God's Spirit and animated by the Word the People had gone to Arms in Defence of the Church c. Not to trouble you with a Rabble of Unnecessary Instances In the Ninth Section there has been said more than enough upon this Subject already You shall now see the Veneration they have for the PERSONS of Princes Gibson in the Pulpit denounced that Curse against King Iames that fell upon Ieroboam that he should die Childless and be the last of the Race An. 1585. which words by the Assembly with much a do and after declining the Question were found to be Scandalous David Blake preached that all Kings were the Devils Barns and His Majesty had detected the Treachery of his Heart For which he was cited before King and Council and appeal'd to the Presbytery who by their Commissioners moved his Majesty for a Surcease of the Process with a charge in case of refusal to Protest against the Proceedings of the Counsel Quasi Pulpita sayes Cambden a Regum Authoritate essent Exempta As if Pulpits were priviledged from the Authority of Princes Iohn Welch at the High Church in Edinburgh preached that the King was possest with a Devil and that the People might Rise Lawfully and take the Sword out of his hand But what is all this in comparison with the License of the late times here at Home when the Two Houses and Assembly were daily entertained with Sermons and Pamphlets of this Quality for which the Authors had their Thanks and Imprimanturs But I shall rather confine my self now to the Arbitrary excesses of the Scottish Presbytery as the Model of the Covenanted and blessed Reformation To come now to their Usurpation upon the Civil Power King Iames was surpriz'd at Ruthuen 1582. under pretext of Religion and kept 5 months a Prisoner This Act was publiquely justified by the Assembly at Edinburgh as done for the Preservation of the Kings Person and Religion In the Case of Andrew Melvil It was insisted upon that Treason in the Pulpit fell under the Cognition of the Presbytery and that neither King nor Counsel Primâ Instantiâ ought to meddle with it But it is a much easier matter to find what a Prince may not do under the Inspection of a Presbytery then what he may He must not receive an Embassader nor pardon an Offender without the Approbation of the Kirk Nor so much as chuse his own Guards Court-Officers or Counsellers nor Issue out any Proclamations or Decrees They are to direct him what Forfeitures to take and how to dispose of them when to Arme and whom to Trust. If the King has a a mind to Feast an Embassader they presenly indict a Fast and Curse the Magistrates almost to Excommunication for not observing it Nay so little Power had King Iames with these people that when his Mother was under a Sentence of Death he could not get them so much as to Pray for her That God would Illuminate her with the Light of his Truth and save her from the Apparent danger she was in On the other side they claim to themselves the Power of Warr and Peace of Calling and Dissolving
the very supposition of a Law possible which may not some way or other be said to CONCERN Ecclesiastical Matters Presb. You take no notice how this Power is clogg'd with Limitations If they be found Unprofitable Unseasonable or to be abused by the People Indep Very good And if the Kirk shall think fit to find them so or so Pray'e What Remedy Bâ—…t their own Avowed Actions and Declarations are the Best Comments upon their own Principles Under King Iames in Scotland nothing was more ordinary then over-Ruling Acts of Parliament by the Acts of the Assembly Did they not erect a Counsel of the Church in Edenborough 1596. and take upon them to Convene Examine and Censure at pleasure such as they suspected to hold any Correspondence with certein Excommunicate Lords did they not also appoint to meet in Armes at the Tryal of them Nor did they think it enough to Rescind or supersede Acts of Parliâ—…ment and General Assâ—…mblies but People must be Quâ—…stion'd too for yielding Obedience to Acts of Parliament and of General Counsels under Colour of Unjust Laws Wee 'l close this particular with the Judgment of the Commissioners of the General Assembly of Scotland of May 5. 1648. The Authority of Parliament is one thing an Act of Parliament another thing We do still acknowledg their Authority when we obey not This or That Act. And whatsoever be the TREASON of Impugning the Authority of PARLIAMENâ—… It can be no Treason to obey GOD rather then MAN Neither did the General Assembly of Glasgow 1638. and such as were active for the Covenant at That time commit any Treason when they Impugned Episcopacy and Pâ—…rch Articles although ratify'd and strengthen'd by Acts of PARLIAMENT and standing LAWS then Unrepealed Presb. When we have once gotten Power into our hands we are all too apt to abuse it But I cannot yet perswade my self that the Root of these Practises is to be found in their Principles Their Books of Discipline are Publick and no Government would ever entertein it if there were such danger in it Indep How was the Covenant entertein'd or who would have dream'd of any harm in a League for the Preservation and Defence of the King's Majestie 's Person and Authority And yet the Presbyterian Interpretation and Salvo of Subordinating his Majesties SAFETY and PRESERVATION to the Defence of the TRUE RELIGION immediately following and the Kirks assuming to Themselves the Judgment of that Religion brought both King and Church to Destruction Nor can you choose but Observe the Holy Discipline and Covenant to be both of a Stile and both of a Design Their Claim concerning Ecclesiastical Matters hooks in all Laws and In the Defence of the true Religion They usurp an Authority over all Magistrates This Discipline at the best is but a Worm at the Root of Civil Government Wheresoever it comes the Secular Power hangs the head and droops upon it and never thrives after But to Sovereign Princes a man might say of it as God said to Adam of the Apple In the day you eat thereof you shall dye the death Now as it is manifestly destructive of Law in the very Foundations of it to carry an Appeal from all Temporal Governours and Constitutions to the Scepter and Sentence of Christ sitting upon his TRIBUNAL in the PRESBYTERY the Language of Beza himself so likewise have they their Preparatory Artifices for Obstructing the Execution of Law and for the Weakening and Distracting of a Government before they enter upon the Great Work of Dissolving it And this is effected by the Trojan Horse as one calls it of their Excommunication that carries all the Instruments and Engines of Publique Ruine and Confusion in the belly of it By Virtue of this Device they do not only impose upon all Ministers and Courts of Justice but they may when they please as Hooker observes send out their Writs of Surcease and fetch in the whole Business of Westminster-Hall to the Bar of the Consistory Or at the fairest according to Beza's Distinction if they allow the Civil Iudg to try the Fact as mere Civile yet de Iure Controverso Ecclesiasticum Synâ—…drium constat Respondisse The Church was to determine in matter of Law and the Civil Magistrate after That to pronounce Sentence according to That Decision Briefly Beza gives the Presbytery the same Power under the Gospel which was Exercised by the Synagogue under the Law But now to the Point of your Excommunication and to shew you in what manner it is apply'd to hinder the Execution of Law and to obstruct Civil Iustice. By One Clause of your Discipline You may Abrogate what Laws you please concerning Ecclesiastical Matters And by Another The Minister is Authorized to handle External things for Conscience Cause So that your Authoritâ—… is without Controul in Ecclesiastical Matters and so is your Liberty of handling Civil Matters as Ecclesiastical Upon which Bottom was founded an Assertion not long since mainteined at the Savoy i. e. That the Command of a most Lawful Act is sinful if That Act commanded may prove to any One a Sin per Accidens Now if the Kirk shall think fit to Abrogate a Law as nothing more frequent whoever shall presume to Execute That Law is sure to be Excommunicate And the Supreme Magistrate himself is no less lyable to Church Censure for not Executing That Sentence then the Inferior Magistrate was for his Original Disobedience The Bishop of St. Andrews in 1586 was Excommunicate for Advising King Iames to a Declaration against Certein Fugitive Ministers that were denounced Rebels and Contriving the Statutes of 1584. touching The Kings Authority in Ecclesiastical Causes Knox is for Excommunication in all Crimes that are Capital by the Law of God and in effect for the Churches Tryal of the very Fact It was not for nothing that the Two Houses held the Assembly so long in Play upon this Point and in Despight of all Importunities to the Contrary kept the staffe still in their own Hands and reserved to Themselves the Ultimate Appeal in Cases of Excommunication Presb Was it not rather the Work of the Independents Who to say the Truth were as much against any Settlement at all as against That And against the very Convening of the Assembly it self Indep And they had done the State a good Office if they had totally hindred it But this is beside our Business We have said enough as to the Dangerous Influence of Presbytery upon the Security of his Majesty and the Law It remains now to be considered with a respect to the Rights and Liberties of the People SECT XXX The Question of Toleration betwixt Presbytery and Independency Debated with a Regard to the Rights Liberties and Advantages of the PEOPLE Indep YOU see how it is with Kings Parliaments and Laws under the Dominion of Presbytery We are now to look into the Condition of the Nobility Gentry Commonalty and of the Presbyterial Clergy it self under
Heedlesness of the Common-Souldier contributed in a High Measure to the General Fate Nay that his Late Majesty was oppress'd even by those that thought they fought for him before they understood what they did But yet let me Commend to your Observation that these relenting Intervals in the Heads of the Army did manifestly Vary according to the Pulse of their Affairs Which evinces that it was a Deliberation upon the matter of Convenience rather then upon a Point of Conscience But thus far however we are agreed That many of the Non-Conformists were engaged Whether upon Ignorance Interest or Faction take your Choice That is to say upon Which of These Three you will found the Merits of your Party We are next to Enquire How far your Principles and Actions will comport with the Duties of Society and the Ends of Government SECT IX The Non-Conformists Plea for Toleration from the Innocence and Modesty of their OPINIONS and PRACTISES C. IN the Question of Government and Obedience there are many Points wherein the Non-Conformists agree Many more wherein they differ and not a few wherein they are altogether Fluctuant and Uncertain We have Nothing to do in this Place with their Disagreements or Uncertainties save only in those Matters wherein they are United by Common Consent And to Determine what Those are will be a New Difficulty Unless you tell Us before-hand What Authorities we may depend upon Your Principles must be Known or they cannot be Examined Wherefore Pray'e Direct us Where we may find them N. C. Why truly in the History of the Reformation for This Controversie has been on foot from the very beginning of it to this Day C. If you speak of the Reformation beyond the Seas I do not find any thing there that comes neer our Purpose Here is first Pretended a Reformation of a Reformation Secondly A Conjunction of Several Parties and Perswasions at utter Enmity One with Another in a Confederacy against the Order of the Government Whereas in the Great Turn of Affairs Abroad I see little more then a Defection from the Church of Rome and People setling themselves in some other way as well as they could Muncer's Party in Germany had I confess some Resemblance of the Tumults here in England that usher'd in the late War both for the Medly and for the Rabble In Scotland indeed there was a Contest for the Reforming of a Reformation and it went high But it was only a Struggle for the Geneva-Discipline Which Humour was brought over to us too and driven on for a while under Q Elizabeth with much Contumacy and Bitterness But our Case in short was never known in the Christian World till the late Troubles and thither it is that we must resort for satisfaction to our present Enquiry Now whether you 'l be tried by the Declarations Votes Orders and Ordinances of that Pretended Parliament that carry'd on the Quarrel Or by the Undeniable Doctrines and Positions of your own Divines and those the very Idols of your Party is left at your Election N. C. As for the Parliament let them answer for themselves We had no hand in their Proceedings And for our Ministers They were but Men and may have their Failings as well as other People If you would know our Principles We are for Worshipping according to the Light of Our Consciences for Obeying God rather then Man and for yielding all due Obedience to the Civil Magistrate C. All This comes to Nothing For you may make that Light what you please and Qualifie that due Obedience as you list What does all this Evasion and Obscurity signifie but that there is somewhat in the bottom more then you are willing to own There are a sort of People that tell us The War raised in 41 in the Name of King and Parliament was Lawful And That the Soveraignty was lodg'd in the Two Houses Nay in the People in Case of Necessity That Kings are but the Peoples Trustees Their Power Fiduciary and the Duty of Subjects only Conditional That Princes may be Depos'd Nay and put to Death in Case of Tyranny And That their Persons may be Resisted but not their Authority That the King is Singulis Major Universis Minor And that the People may Enter into Covenant for the Reformation of Religion without the Consent of the Chief Magistrate nay against his Authority and Propagate Religion by the Sword They make their Appeals from the Literal Construction of Law to the Equitable from the Law Written to the Law of Nature and Necessity A Man might ply You with fresh Instances upon this Subject till to morrow morning But here we 'l stop And pray'e speak your Opinion now of Granting a Toleration to a Party that Professes and Teaches These Principles and Acts accordingly N. C. What is all This to the Non-Conformists Who are already come to an Agreement that In the Question of Toleration The Foundation of Faith Good Life and Government is to be Secured C. Very Good So that what Party soever shall be found Guilty of the Positions aforesaid and of Actions answerable thereunto cannot reasonably pretend to a Toleration from the Innocency of their Opinions and Practises Now to Particulars The POSITIONS of Divers Eminent Non-Conformists I. The War raised by the TWO HOUSES in the Name of King and Parliament 1641. was Lawful I cannot see that I was mistaken in the main Cause Nor dare I repent of it Nor forbear the same if it were to do again in the same State of Things And my Iudgment tells me That if I should do otherwise I should be guilty of Treason Or Disloyalty against the Soveraign Power of the Land Pag. 486. A King abusing his Power to the Overthrow of Religion Laws and Liberties may be Controuled and Opposed This may serve to justifie the Proceedings of this Kingdom against the Late King who in a Hostile way set himself to overthrow Religion Parliaments Laws and Liberties P. 10. The Righteousness of the Parliament's Cause is as clear as the Sun at Noon-day And like the Law of God it self in These Excellent Qualifications of it That It is Holy Just and Good P. 6. II. The Lords and Commons are the Supreme Power Nay the People in Case of Necessity Parliaments may judge of Publique Necessity without the King If deserted by the King and are to be accompted by Virtue of Representation as the Whole Body of the State P. 45. Whensoever a King or other Superior Authority creates an Inferior They Invest it with a Legitimacy of Magistratical Power to Punish Themselves also in Case they prove Evil-doers P. 7. England is a mixt Monarchy and Governed by the Major Part of the Three Estates Assembled in Parliament P. 111. The Houses are not only requisite to the Acting of the Power of making Laws but Co-ordinate with his Majesty in the very Power of Acting P. 42. When as a Part of the Legislative Power resides in
and Unity of the Church for Trifles Things Indifferent and relating to Outward Order and Worship N. C. In Prescribed Forms and Rites of Religion The Conscience will interpose and concern it self and Cannot resign it self to the Dictates of Men in the Points of Divine Worship And Those Injunctions which to the Imposers are Indifferent in the Consciences of the Dissenters are Unlawful And What Humane Authority can warrant any One to put in Practice an Unlawful Or Suspected Action Pa. 26. C. If This be really Conscience You will be found as Cautious in venturing deliberately upon a Suspected Action in all other Cases as you are in This. But what if it shall appear that This Fit of Tenderness only takes you when you are to pay an Obedience to the Law and that you are as Bold as Lions when you come to oppose it Will you not allow us to think it possible that there may be somewhat more in the Importunities and Pretences of the Non-Conformists then Matter of CONSCIENCE 'T is a Suspected Action to Kneel at the Sacrament but None to hold up your Hands at the Covenant You make a Conscience of disclaiming the Obligation of That Covenant in Order to the Security of the Government But None at all of Leaguing your selves in a Conspiracy for the Subversion of it Where was your Tenderness in Suspected Cases when to Encourage Rapine Sacriledge and Rebellion was the Common Business of your Counsels and Pulpits When it was safer to Deny the Trinity then to Refuse the Covenant When the same Persons that started at a Ceremony made no Scruple at all of Engaging the Kingdom in Blood and laying Violent Hands upon their Sovereign Is not This Streining at a Gnat and swallowing a Camel N. C. The Non-Conformists I know are charged with Principles that detract from Kingly Power and Tend to advance Popular Faction It is true They have been Eager Asserters of Legal Liberties Pag. 40. But These are Things gone and Past and Nothing to our Present Purpose The Wise Man says He that repeateth a Matter separateth very Friends A looking back to former Discords mars the most hopeful Rediâ—…egration Acts of Indemnity are Acts of Oblivion also and must be so observed Pa. 41. C. The Non-Conformists The Sole Actors in the late War were only Eager Asserters it seems of Legal Liberties You do not deal so Gingerly with the Bishops in the Point of Ceremonies as to let them come off with the Character of Eager Assertors of Legal Authorities So that herein also Your Consciences stumble at Straws and leap over Blocks Now Whereas You will have it that a Reflection upon former Discords is a Violation of the Act of Indemnity And Impertinent to Our Purpose My Answer is First That I do not revive the Memory of former Discords as a Reproach But I make use of some Instances out of former Passages to make Good my Assertion That Your Conjunct Impâ—…rtunity for a Toleration is not grounded upon Conscience And to shew you that your Practises and Professions grin One upon Another For Conscience is all of a Piâ—…ce Not Tender and Delicate on the One side and Callous and Unfeeling on the Other Secondly Suppose We should make a little Bold with the Act of Oblivion I think We have as much right to do it as You have to fall foul upon the Act of Uniformity Unless you conceive that the Mercy you have received by One Law gives You a Privilege of Invading all the rest As to Authority it is One and the Same in Both and if there were any place for Complaint against the Equity of a Legal Establishment it would lie much Fairer against the Act of Indemnity on the behalf of the Royallists that have ruined their Estates and Families in the Defence of the Law and yet after all are thereby condemned to sit down in Silence and Despair Then against the Act of Uniformity on the Behalf of the Non-Conformists Who by the One Law are secured in the Profits of their late Disobedience And by the Other are taken into the Arms of the Church according to the Ancient and Common Rule with the Rest of His Majesties Protestant Subjects The Same Rule I say saying where it is Moderated with Abatements and Allowances in Favour of Pretended Scruples N. C. Whereas you make the Non-Conformists the Sole Actors in Our late Confusions You run your self upon a great Mistake For It hath been manifested to the World by such as Undertook to Iustifie it when Authority should require That the Year before the King's Death A Select Number of Iesuiâ—…s being sent from their whole Party in England Consulted both the Faculty of Sorbonne and the Pope's Council at Rome touching the Lawfulness and Expediency of Promoting the Change of Government by making away the King Whom They Despaired to turn from his Hereste It was Debated and Concluded in Both Places That for the Advancement of the Catholick Cause It was Lawful and Expedient to Carry on that Alteration of State This Determination was effectually pursued by many Iesuits that came over and Acted their Parts in several Disguises Pag. 15. C. If This be True and Proveable as You affirm it is You cannot do the Protestant Cause a more Important Service then to make it out to the Parliament Who You know have judg'd the Matâ—…er Worthy of their Search and have appointed a Committee to receive Informations Pa. 2. Nay which is more You are a Betrayer of the Cause if you do it not The WHOLE PARTY in England do you say Prove out This and you kill the whole Popish Party at a Blow This was the Year before the King's Death it seems Whas not That within the Retrospect of the Act of Indemnity If so tell me I beseech you Why may not We take the same Freedom with the Non-Conformists that You do with the Papists N. C. We shall never have done if you lash out thus upon Digressions Pray keep to the Question C. As close as you please What if a Man should shew You a Considerable Number of the Eminent and Active Instruments in the late War to be now in the Head of the present Outcry for Toleration Take This into your Supposition too that These very Persons promoted Our Troubles This very Way and Proceeded from the Reformation of Discipline to the Dissolution of Government Are We bound in Charity to take all their Pretensions of Scruple for real Tenderness of Conscience N. C. Beyond all Question unless you can either Evidence their Errour to be Unpardonable or the Men Themselves Impenitent C. Why then let Amesius determine betwixt Us. Peccata illa quae publicè fuerunt nota debent etiam Confessione Publicâ damnari quià ad quos malum ipsum Exempli Contagione pervenerat ad eos etiam Poenitentiae ac Emendationis Documentum si fieri possit delet transmitti PUBLIQUE SINS require PUBLIQUE CONFESSION To the End that as many as
the Meâ—…nest Prisoners and Greatest Malefactors But They that Envy my being a King are loth I should be a hâ—…istian While they seek to deprive me of all things else they are afraid I should save my Soul These are the Words or that Pious Prince in his last Extremity N. C. That Rigour was the Barbarism of a Faction Not the Principles of the Party C. Hear your Party speak then It is much that our Brethren should separate from the Church but that they should endeavour to get a Warrant to Authorize their Separation from it and to have Liberty by drawing Members out of it to Weaken and Diminish it till so far as lies in them they have brought it to Nothing This we think to be plainly Unlawfuf Toleration would be the Putting the Sword in a Madman's hand A Proclaiming Liberty to the Wolves to come into Christ's Flock to Prey upon his Lambs Extirpate all Achans with Babylonish Garments Orders Ceremonies Gestures Let them be rooted out from among Us. You of the Honourable House Up for the Matter belongs to You. We even All the Godly Ministers of the Countrey will be with You. Toleration makes the Scripture a Nose of Wax A Rule of Faith to all Religions Liberty of Conscience and Toleration of all or any Religion is so Prodigious an Impiety that this Religious Parliâ—…ment cannot but abhor the very Naming of it Such a Toleration is utterly repugnant to and Inconsistent with the Solemn League and Covenant for Reformation It is unreasonable says the Defender of the London Ministers Letter to the Assembly that Independents should desire That Toleration of Presbyters which they would not give to Presbyters For With what face can I destre a Courtesse from Him to whom I do onenly prosess 〈◊〉 would deny the same Courtesse Does not this hold as well for Us as it did for You N. C. You must not Impose the Iudgments of Particular Persons upon Us as Instances of Publique Authority C. What do ye think then of your National Covenant Was That an Act of Authority Wherein you bind Your selves by an Oath to settle an Uniform Presbytery to the Exclusion of all other Forms of Church-Order or Government what soever under the Notion of Schism and of Prelâ—…cy by Name Are your Consciences FOR Toleration Now that were so much AGAINST it Then Nay there are many among you that â—…eckon your selves under an Obligation to pursue the Ends of that Covenant even to this very Day And do you think it Reasonable for a Government to grant Privileges and Advantages of Power and Credit to a Party that owns it self under an Oath of Confederacy to endeavour the Extirpation of it N. C. You mean I suppose of Church-Government C. I mean of Both Church and State Was it not the Test of the King's Enemies as well as of the Bishops Was it not made Death without Mercy for any Man having taken the Solemn League and Covenant to adhere to his Majesty The League and Covenant says Rutherford was the first Foundation of the Ruine of the Malignant Party in England And whoever refuses to Disclaim it must be rationally understood still to Drive on the Intent of it So that to Tolerate the Non-Conformists is to Tolerate the Sworn Adversaries both of Royal and Episcopal Authority Nay to Tolerate Those that have Sworn to persist in that Opposition all the Days of their Lives Over and above the Tolerating of those upon Pretence of Conscience FOR a Toleration that deny to Tolerate all other People upon as strong a Pretence of Conscience AGAINST it Where was This Spirit of Moderation toward the weak Brethren in the Total Suppression of the Book of Common Prayer and the Imposing of the Directory to be Oâ—…served in all the Churches within This Kingdom No Ruling Elders but such as have taken the National Covenant No Electors of Elders neither by the Ordinance of March 14. 1645. but such as have taken the National Covenant No Ordination without a Testimonial of having taken the Covenant of the Three Kingdoms None to be Admitted or Entertained in the Universities without taking the Solemn League and Covenant and the Negative Oath and Upon Conditions of Submission and Conformity to the Discipline and Directory Nay further You will find in the Four Bills and Propositions sent to his Majesty in the Isle of Wight March 1647. when the Two Parties Presbyterian and Independent were upon so hard a Tugg That the Presbyterian Government and Directory seem'd to be resolv'd upon in one Line and unsettled again in the very next By a Provision That no Persons whatsoever should be liable to any Question or Penalty for Non Conformity to the Form of Government and Divine Service appointed in the Ordinances then in Force but be at Liberty to Meet for the Worship of God so as nothing might be done to the disturbance of the Peace of the Kingdom Yet in This Crisis of Affairs they could clap in another stabbing Proviso against Us upon the neck of That i. e. That This Indulgence shall not extend to Tolerate the Use of the Book of Common-Prayer in any Place whatsoever And at this rate you treated the Episcopal Party throughout the whole Course of your Power N. C. And good Cause for it Were not they the most likely of all others to disappoint our Settlement C. Agreed But as to the matter of Conscience Did you Well or Ill in 't Or rather Was there any thing of Conscience in the Case N. C. Certainly it was very fit for the Civil Power to look to it self And the Power Ecclesiastical was no less concern'd to exact a Consormity to the Laws and Ordinances of Christ. C. How can you say This and consider what you say without blushing If you did well in Refusing to Tolerate the Episcopal Way because you thought it not Right the Reason is as strong for Our Way that have the same Opinion of Yours If you did Well on the Other side out of a Political Regard to the Publique Peace so do We now upon That very scâ—…re So that you must either confess that You did Ill Then in Refusing a Toleration to Us or otherwise allow that Authority does Well Now in not permitting it to You. N. C. There might be some Plea for a little Strictness more then ordinary in the Heat of an Eager and Publique Contention But methinks a Persecution in Cold Blood does not savour of the Spirit of our Profession SECT XV. The Non-Conformists JOYNTCOMPLAINTS of Hard Measure and Persecution confronted with their own JOYNT-PROCEEDINGS C. WHat is it that you call Hard Measure and Persecution N. C. Your Unmerciful Impositions upon Tender Consciences by Subscriptions Declarations c. There are few Nations under the Heavens of God as far as I can learn that have more Able Holy Faithful Laborious and Truly Peaceable Preachers of the Gospel Proportionably then Those that are now
most of the REFORMED CHURCHES c. As who should say The Church of England is the only Protestant Church in the Christian World that pretends to This Way of Proceeding and the Protestants Abroad are all of the Non-Conformists side Let this Matter be fairly Examin'd I beseech you and we shall quickly see where the Fault lies In the first Place What is the Judgment of the Reformed Churches abroad touching the English Episcopacy N. C. You may read their Iudgments in their Practises Or 't is but looking into the Reformation in France Holland and the Neighbourhood and you may resolve your self in that Point C. Truly I find nothing at all to your Advantage which way soever I look Luther himself distinguishes betwixt Popish Tyrants and True Bishops and professes to Condemn them as Popish not as Bishops The Authors of the Augustane Confession profess that they would willingly preserve the Ecclesiastical and Canonical Politie if the Bishops would cease to Tyrannize over their Churches Bucer declares himself wholly for Bishops and Metropolitans And Melancthon to Luther You would not Imagine says he how some People are Nettled to see Church-Polity restor'd as if it were the Romish Sovereignty again Ita de Regno suo non de Evangelio dimicant Socii nostri As if the Quarrel were Dominion not Religion Calvin acknowledges that the Ancient Government by Arch-Bishops and Bishops and the Nicene Constitution of Patriarchs was for Orders sake and Good Government And delivers himself to Cardinal Sadolet with an Anathema upon the Opposers of that Hierarchy which submits it self to Jesus Christ. Zanchie the Compiler of the Gallican Confession observes a Change of Name rather then of Office throughout most of the German Churches As Super-Intendents and General-Super Intendents in the place of Bishops and Arch-Bishops Acknowledging that by the Consent of Histories Counsels and the Ancient Fathers Those Orders have been Generally allowed by all Christian Societies Where they are in Exercise let them continue and where by the Iniquity of the Times they have been abolish'd they ought to be restor'd Beza the rigid Successor of Calvin in excuse to the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury for meddling beyond his Sphere We do not charge says he all Arch-Bishops and Bishops with Tyranny The Church of England hath offorded many Learned Men and many Glorious Martyrs of That Function If That Authority be there still may a perpetual Blessing go along with it This in the Name of the whole Church of Geneva and Addressed To the Primate of all England Totius Angliae Primati Saravia arguing for the Hierarchy out of the Apostles Canons Beza returns him This Answer This is no more then what we wish might be restor'd to all Churches Quid aliud hic statuitur quam quod in omnibus locis Ecclesiis restitutum cupimus The Three Kingdoms of Swede Denmark and Norway as Mr. Durell observes retein the Order still of Bishops and Arch-Bishops In the Protestant Cantons of Switzerland there is also a Subordination of Ministers And so in the Palatinate in Hessen the Duke of Brandenburgh's Territories Anhalt Bremen Poland Lithuania c. Come we now into France Holland and Geneva And first hear Mr. du Bosc of the Reformed Church of Caen. Well-ordered Episcopacy hath most Important and Considerable Utilities which cannot be found in the Presbyterian Discipline Mr. Gaches one of the Ministers of Charenton The best Men in our Churches says he have honour'd the Prelates of England The Name of Schism may do more harm to the Church in one Year then the Excâ—…ss of Episcopal Authority can do in an Age. And again Sin hath brought in the Necessity of Government and the Failings of Ministers make the Order of Bishops Necessary Mr. le Moyn of Rouen pronounces it to be want of Prudence and Charity if any seek the Ruine of Bishops I trust that his Majesty will be sure to re-establish the Authority of the English Church and use his Power for a perfect Re-union of all the Reformed Churches which that be may Effect His Majesty must preserve his Bishops I hold it impossible says Mr. Gayon of Bourdeaux that England can ever be quiet and flourish but under the Episcopal Government In Holland Bogermannus the President of the Synod at Dort upon a Suggestion from the Bishop of Landaff how fit a Remedy Episcopacy would be for the Suppression of Heresies and Schism made this Reply Domine non sumus adeò foelices We are not so happy My Lord. And for Geneva we have the Voices of the Principals of that Church also for the Authority and Advantage of Episcopal Government So that if you be no better Seconded against our Ceremonies then you are against our Bishops you have the whole Stream of Protestant Divines against you This is according to what I have formerly had occasion to deliver upon This Subject N. C. We do dissent upon just Reasons from the Ecclessastical Hierarchy 〈◊〉 Prelacy DISCLAIMED IN COVENANT as it was Stated and Exercised in These Kingdoms yet do 〈◊〉 nor ever did renounce the True Ancient Primitive Episcopacy as it was Balanced or Menaged by a Due Commixtion of Presbyters therewith C. We are not here to Debate the Qualifications and Limits of the Episcopacy you pretend to but to proceed having made it appear that the Hierarchy which under Colour of Reduction or Commixtion you formerly rooted out and are now again undermining is That very Hierarchy which you have now heard Reverenced and Recommended by so many Venerable Testimonies Or if after all This you can but produce one Publick Act of any Protestant Church beyond the Seas in favour of your Claim do it and save your Party the Credit of not being Single and Particular in your Schism What have you next to say against our Ceremonies N. C. All the best Reformed Churches of Christ who only are Competent Iudges in this Case and to whose Iudgment and Example we ought rather to Conform our selves in Ceremonies then to the Synagague of Anti-Christ do esteem those Ceremonies Needless Inexpedient and Fit to be Abolished How the Churches of other Countries approve of them may appear sufficiently by this that they have banished the use of them out of their Assemblies C. Are they only NEEDLESS INEXPEDIENT and FIT to be Abolish'd then I thought you would have found them absolutely UNLAWFUL IDOLATROUS and upon pein of DAMNATION not to be RETEINED According to This Measure What will become of the whole Frame of our Government if it shall take you in the head to say the same thing of every Law and Constitution of the Land Ceremonies will not down with you because they are Needless Inexpedient c. I beseech you shew me the Needfulness of Killing and Plundring or the Expedience of Dissolving Publique Laws and Depopulating Kingdoms And yet These are Matters you can Swallow even without Chewing Needless And Inexpedient Soâ—…ly I beseech you
of all Government to have some Unaccomptable Iudge some Unquestionable Expedient of Law or Authority for the Ending of Controversies The Determination to be Final and Decisive No Appealing from it and no contending beyond it N. C. What not in Case of Errour I could be well enough content with a Iudge and with Indispuâ—…able Laws if you could but assure me of Infallible Law-Makers But I should be sorry to see a Roman-Infallibility set up in England C. So that rather then a Fallible Iudge you will have None at all You could be content with a Iudge you say but then That Iudge must be Questionable in Case of Errour so that Another Iudge is to Judge Him and the very Iudge of This Iudge is Himself Questionable and so is his Iudge and his Iudges Iudge in Infinitum in Case of Errour Which Case of Errour may be Alledg'd wheresoever there is no Infallibility and if there be no Infallibility in Nature then by your Rule there can be no Iudge in Nature N. C. I do not say but a Man may Iudge Certainly in some Cases though not Infallibly in All and all I ask is only a Free Exercise of my Iudgment at Discretion without being ty'd up to an Implicit Resignation There is but a Right and a Wrong and the One I must Embrace and Reject the Other How shall I know This from That without Enquiry And what am I the better for That Enquiry if when I have Learn'd my Duty I am debarr'd the Liberty to Practise it C. You turn the Question from the Necessity of a Judg to his Infallibility 'T is all one to me whether you make him Infallible or Credible or what you make him or where you place him provided that he be Acknowledg'd Necessary and Unacâ—…omptable That He is Necessary I presume you will easily afford me for there can be no Peace without him every Man being at Liberty to Wrangle where no Man is Authoris'd to take up the Strife But would you have him Unaccomptable or no N. C. What greater Encouragement is there in the World to Tyranny then the Opinion of an Unaccomptable Sovereignty C. What is it rather you should have said that Excites Sedition and Depopulates Kingdoms so much as the Contrary And doubtless the Fiercest Tyranny is much more supportable then the Mildest Rebellion N. C. Truly as to the Convenience of a Definitive Sentence I should be glad to see it without the Hazzard of a Dâ—…finitive Injustice C. You mistake your self if you oppose a Possible Injury on the One side to a Certain Wrangle and Confusion on the Other If Infallibility you cannot find why may not the fairest Probability content you N. C. But would you have that Probability govern by Unquestionable and Authoritative Conclusions C. By any means you do nothing else For where Controversies are Inevitable and Concord if it may be had Necessary What can be more Reasonable then to chuse the most Competent Iudge of the Matter in Controversie for the Concluding Umpire of the Controversie it self N. C. But a Man may Iudge Probably in One Case and Improbably in Another Suppose the Determination to be manifest Errour or Injustice would you have the same Submission paid to it as if it were Equity and Truth C. Yes To the Determination though not to the Errour You are to stand to the Authority of the Sentence without Contesting the Equity of it for Right or Wrong 't is a Decision The Principal Scope and sure End of a Reference is Peace The Hopeful Event and Issue of it is Righteous Iudgment Is it not well then to be sure of the One and in so fair a Likelihood of the Other Put it to the worst You are not bound to be of the Iudge his Opinion but to be over-rul'd by his Authority Neither do you undertake that he shall Judge Critically as to the Subject of the Question but that he shall Judge Effectually as to the purpose of the Reference N. C. This Resignation may do well in Cases of â—…ivil Interest but it will hardly hold in Matters of Conscience Who shall pretend to Iudge of my Conscience beside God and my Self C. The Scripture which is the Rule of all Consciences shall be the Iudge of Yours But the Question is not What the Conscience Is but what it Ought to be Not what your Private Iudgment says but what the Scripture means and the Thing I strive for is a Judge of That A Iudge of the Rule of Faith which I take to be all out as necessary as a Iudge of a Political Law You cannot but allow that there are Diversities of Opinions as well in Religion as concerning Secular Affairs And such is our Corruption that we draw Poyson even from the Fountain of Life and the Word of God it self is made the Warrant of all Crimes and the Foundation of all Heresies Look behind ye and you may see a Prince Murther'd by his Subjects Authority Beheaded by a Pretended Law and all this Defended by a Text. The Church Devour'd by a Divided Ministry The Government overturn'd by a Solemn League and Covenant to support it An Arbitrary Power Introduc'd by the Patrons of Liberty The Lord's Prayer Cashier'd to make way for the Motions of the Holy Ghost and Charity it self Extinguish'd for the Advancement of the Gospel We have liv'd to see as many Heresies as Congregations and a Consistorian Scrutiny prest beyond the Rigour of a Spanish Inquisition We have seen some that abhor Idols committing Sacrilege Christ's Kingdom cry'd up till his Divinity is Deny'd Strictness of Life Inculcated till the very Rule of it The Decalogue it self is Rejected And Blasphemy hunted out of the Tavern into the Pulpit In fine What Sin and Misery have we not known and felt since under the Form of Liberty of Conscience This Freedom of a Private Spirit came in vogue Nor are we ever to expect better from it till all Men shall conspire to do the same thing where every Man is left to his Own Gust to do what he pleases And whence flows all this Mischief and Confusion but from a License of Wandring from the Rule Methinks These Practises should put you and your Cause out of Countenance N. C. I am no Advocate for Anarchy though no Friend to Uniformity And I know 't is with Non Conformists as with other People there are Good and Bad of All sorts But to go with the Moderate Would you have all Mens Consciences Gobern'd by the same Rule C. Better Particulars suffer for Incompliance with the Publique then the Publique suffer for Complying with Particulars Uniformity is the Ciment of both Christian and Civil Societies Take That away and the Parts drop from the Body One Piece falls from Another The Magistrate for Orders sake requires Uniformity You and your Associates oppose it upon a Plea of Conscience The Question is Whether He shall Over-rule your Opinions or You Over-rule His Authority This Dispute
Supposition likewise into Consideration and Word the whole Matter as plainly as we can The Church says Ye may Do And the Law says You must Do That which your Conscience says You ought not to Do. How will you reconcile your Duty and your Conscience in This Case N. C. Uery well For I think it my Duty to Obey my Conscience upon This Principle That Conscience is God's Substitute over Individuals C. Keep to That and Answer me once again Is not the Civil Magistrate God's Substitute too If He be How comes your Conscience to take place of his Authority They are Both Commission'd alike and consequently Both to be Obey'd alike Which is Impossible where their Commands are Inconsistent N. C. The Magistrate is a Publique Minister and his Commission does not reach to Particular Consciences C. And on the Other side You are a Private Person and there is as little Reason for your Opinion to Operate upon a Publique Law So that if I mistake you not we are upon accord thus far That every Particular is to look to One and the King to the Whole Now if you would deal as Candidly with me about the Ecclesiastical Power as you have done in the Civil we might make short work of This Question I hope you will not deny that the Church is as well Authorized to TEACH and INSTRUCT in all the External Acts of Worship as the Magistrate is to COMPEL to Those External Acts. N. C. There is no Doubt The Church as the Church has a Ministerial Power Ex Officio to Define Controversies according to the Word of God And that A Synâ—…d Lawfully Conven'd is a Limited Ministerial and Bounded Visible Iudge and to be believed in so far as they fellow Christ the Peremptory and Supreme Iudge speaking in his own Word C. This will not do our Business yet for to say that a Synod is to be believed in SO FAR as it follows Christ seems to make Those the Iudges of That Act that are to be Concluded by it and leaves the Credit of the Authority dependent upon the Conscience Fancy or Humour of the Believer For 't is but any Man's saying that the Synod does not follow Christ and that he trusts in it so far as it does follow Him And this is enough to keep the Controversie afoot without any hope of Decision N. C. We are indeed to believe Truths determined by Synods to be Infallible and never again liable to Retraction or Discussion Not because so says the Synod but because so says the Lord. C. Still you are short for 't is not in Our Power to disâ—…elieve what we acknowledge to be a Truth But That which is Truth at the Fountain may be Corrupted in the Passage Or at least appear so to Me and What then N. C. It must be look't upon as an Errour of the Conscience which is no Discharge at all of your Obedience From which Errour you are to be reclaimed either by Instruction or Censure For the People are obliged to Obey Those that are OVER THEM IN THE LORD who Watch for their Souls as those who must give an Accompt And not oblig'd to stand to and obey the Ministerial and Official Iudgment of THE PEOPLE He that Heareth YOU MINISTERS of the GOSPEL not the PEOPLE Heareth ME And He that Despiseth YOU Despiseth ME. C. Why should not We Two shake Hands now and Join in the Act for Uniformity You cannot say that it wants any thing of the full Complement of a Binding Law Either in regard of the Civil or of the Ecclesiastical Authority Here is first the Iudgment of the Church duely conven'd touching the Meetness and Conveniency of the Rites and Forms therein Conteined You have next the Royal Sanction Approving and Authorizing Those Rites and Forms and Requiring your Exact Obedience to them Now so it is that you can neither Decline the Authority of your Iudges nor the Acknowledgment of your Duties What is it then that hinders your Obedience N. C. That which to Me is more then all the World It goes against my Conscience C. Only That Point then and we have done with This Subject We have already concluded that God is the Iudge of the World That the Church is the Iudge of what properly concerns Religion That the Civil Magistrate is Iudge of what belongs to Publique Order and Peace and That every Man's Conscience is the Iudge of what concerns his own Soul The Remaining Difficulty is This How I am to behave my self in a Case where the Law bids me do One Thing and my Conscience Another To take a True Estimate of This Matter We are first to Ballance the Two Interests that meet in Competition The One for the Law and the Other against it There is in Favour and for the EXECUTION of the Law meaning That of Uniformity 1. The Personal Conscience and 2. The Political Conscience of the King There is moreover for the EQUITY of it the Solemn and Deliberate Iudgment of the Church which is effectually the Publique Conscience and lastly for the OBSERVANCE of it There is the Duty of the Subject which if it be withdrawn does not only Invalidate This Particular Act but it loosens the Sinews of Sovereign Authority and which is more it destroys even a Divine Ordinance For take away Obedience and Government lapses into Confusion Now for the Counterpoise AGAINST This Law and Thus Supported appears your Naked Conscience Nay That 's the Fairest on 't It may be worse and in Truth any thing that 's Ill under That Name N. C. But what 's the World to Me in the Scale against my Soul C. You have great Reason sure and 't is no more then every Man may challenge That is to Stand or Fall to his own Conscience Is that your Principle N. C. Yes out of Doubt 't is Mine and Yours and any Man's that's Honest. C. Well Hold ye a little Your Conscience will not down with This Law and This Law will as little down with your Conscience Weigh now the Good against the Bad What if it stands What if it yields Make the Case worse then it is as Bad as Bad may be in your own Favour You cannot comply with the Law And the Law will not stoop to You. What follows upon it N. C. The Ruine of many Godly People that desire to Worship God according to his Word C. That Plea wrought little upon You from Us but let that pass What sort of Ruine do you mean Ruine of Liberty or Estate For this Law draws no Blood State your Misfortunes I beseech ye N. C. No Man must Hold a Benefice or Teach a School but upon Terms of such Subscription or Acknowledgment as many an honest Man would rather Die then Consent to So that We are Distrest not only for Our Selves as being deprived of the Comfort of all Spiritual and Heavenly Freedoms But Our poor Infants are exposed to be Undone wanting the Means
them nor would they stand them in any stead if they had a mind to play the Villeins for want of an Orderly Dependence to unite and to oblige them Presb. And for That Reason you Imagine the Independents may be better Tolerated then the Presbyterians Indep Truly for That Main Reason with Twenty Great ones more in the Belly of it It were a wild thing for a Man to apprehend any danger to a Government from a Faction that is Divided and Distracted within it self and without any Common Tye of Agreement to Unite it And This do I take to be the Condition of the Independents which for Discourse sake we will suppose to be a Faction Their Congregations are generally small The Members of them gather'd up here and there and so Scattered and Intermix'd with People of other Perswasions that they have neither Opportunity nor Encouragement to joyn in a Conspiracy Besides that in Respect of their Church-Parity they want that ordinary Medium of Superiority and Subjection to link them together in a Combination upon the Point of Common Interest Another Difficulty will arise from the Affections of the Pastors themselves who are not without their touches of Disgust and Emulation to see themselves either Out-vied or Deserted the One by Fuller Congregations and the Other by the Removal of their Members from one Church to another Presb. If I am not mistaken you have provided against the Inconvenience of Breaking in One upon Another by an Obligation at your Entrance into any Church not to forsake it without Leave But proceed Indep There remains yet behind another Obstacle equal to all the rest Which is that the Independents have no Men that are Eminent for Popularity Interest Great Fortunes and Abilities to head them Now how it is possible for a Party under all these Disadvantages to work any Mischief to the State I am not wise enough to imagine If you object that the late Independent Government had many Persons at the Helm that were qualified with these Circumstances I must Answer you that whatever they were they did not set up Originally for Independency Presb. So that upon the Result to save your Party from Appearing Dangerous you have made it Contemptible And your Argument would have run very well in These Words The Independents may better be Tolerated then the Presbyterians for no Body that has either Brains or Reputation will own Independency Indep As an Interest you should have said whereupon to work any Change of Government And this would have been point-blank to the Question and your Period never the worse for 't Now if my Reason be good on the behalf of the Independents that They may be Tolerated without any Risque to the Commonwealth upon the Considerations before mentioned It will hold as good against the Presbyterians because of the very Contrary Circumstances in their Government and Case That is to say They are at great Agreement in the Orderly Reduction and Connexion of their Polity and they have commonly found Great Friends to uphold them in their Pretenses My first Exception to Presbytery is that it is a National Church-Government And Methinks Two National Church-Governments in the same Kingdom looks like a Sharing of the Sovereignty and the setting up of Christs Vicar against Gods Vice gerent And what will the People say in the Matter but either that the Government thinks them in the Right or else that 't is affraid of them The former Supposition draws the Simple into the Party upon Conscience and the Latter engages the Crafty upon Interest To take it now in the Constitutive Parts of it The Scale of the Presbytery rises Thus From Parochial Inspection to Classical from Classical to Provincial and from Provincial to National Which Extensive Latitude and Comprehension does plainly discover that there was a Design of Sole and Sovereign Dominion in the very Institution of the Discipline To say nothing in this Place of the Absolute and Independent Authority Claimed and Exercised by the General Assembly I shall only observe this to you That they have the best Security in the World for their Subjects Obedience to all their Acts and Conclusions whatsoever For Life Fortune Soul and all lies at Stake They Fine Punish Degrade Excommunicate at Pleasure And this is the True Reason that from time to time the Presbyterial Discipline has had the Countenance of so many Popular Advocates and Abetters For certainly it is the best Foundation for an Alteration of State that ever was yet laid upon the Face of the Earth and their Work is three quarters done to their hand in the very Disposition of the Model Only one Observation more and I have done And That is The Provident Commixture of Laity and Clergy in all their Counsels These to Attaque the Church the Other the State by which means they may the more commodiously carry on Schism and Sedition in their proper Seasons and leave a Door of Preferment and Advantage open to all Comers I will not say yet that it is absolutely Impossible for a Protestant Monarchy and this Double refin'd Presbytery to prosper in the same Soil But if I had Money in my Pocket I would not give any Prince in Christendom above Eighteen Months Purchase for his Crown that should put it to the Venture For he has nothing in the World to trust to but Miracles The Gratitude Faith Good Nature and Pure Integrity of the Party SECT XXVIII Whether may be better Tolerated in This Kingdom The Presbyterians or the Independents in Respect of their PRINCIPLES and Ordinary PROCEEDINGS Debated First With Relation to his Majesties PERSON and AUTHORITY Indep THe Government of England is Monarchique but so attemper'd with Legal Provisions for the Comfort and Benefit of the People that every Englishman has his Interest in the Preservation of the Law as That which Intitles him to the Free Enjoyment of his Life and Fortune So that we are to frame our Discourse with a Regard to His Majesties PERSON and Royal AUTHORITY The Foundation and Execution of the LAW The Rights and Just Liberties of the PEOPLE Utterly excluding from the Limits of Our Toleration all Power or Pretense whatsoever that shall presume to Usurp upon any of These Particulars Now to begin with the First What do you find in the Independent Way that may endanger his Majesty either in his Person or in his Prerogative Presb. The Princes of Germany would Answer you that your Proceedings are Sanguâ—…nary and Violent not only against your Actual Opposers but against the very Ordinance of Magistracy it self Indep What are the Furies of the Anabaptists to us that have Declared against them as well as You But if you can fasten upon those of the Congregational Way any Antimonarchical Opinions or Practises which are either wrap't up in the Bowell of That Profession or naturally Issuing from thence and make good your Assertion by proving what you say to have been the Formal Act of any One of our
that Discipline Which will best appear by a view of the Powers which the Presbytery claims and Exercises But let me Commend One Note to you as Previous to that Examination This Party has constantly screw'd it self into the World by an Oath of Mutual Defence Which Oath they apply as well to the Ruine and Extirpation of their Opponents as to their own Preservation by making it a Test of good Affection to That Interest and Excluding all People whatsoever from any Office or Benefit Ecclesiastical or Civil without subscribing it You cannot deny but this Oath in the very Institution of it is a Violence both upon Law and Conscience and Consequently that the Imposition falls heaviest upon those that make an Honourable and Religious Scruple of their Actions So that here is already exposed the most Considerable part of the Nation for the Subject of their Displeasure with their Lives Liberties and Fortunes at Mercy as you will find upon a further Consideration of their Usurped Authority and Iurisdiction Presb. Leave this way of General Discourse and come to Particular Instances Where is it that you find This Exorbitant Power that you talk of Indep In the very Declaration of the Commission of the General Assembly of Scotland 1648. page 53. The Duties of the Second Table as well as of the First As namely the Duties between King and Subject Parents and Children Husbands and Wives Masters and Servants and the Like being conteined in and to be taught and cleared from the Word of God are in That Respect and so far as concerneth the Point of Conscience a Subject of Ministerial Doctrine and in Difficult Cases a Subject of Cognizance and Iudgment to the Assembly of the Kirk The Dispute here was about the Assemblies Authority in the Question of War or Peace Is not This at one Blow to destroy the Order of all Relations Political Natural and Moral Princes must not presume to make War or Peace To Enact Laws or Abrogate To Spare or Punish without Ecclesiastical Licence The Subject must go to the Masters of the Parish to know whether he shall Obey Authority or Resist it And after the same manner it fares with Parents and Children Husbands and Wives Masters and Servants So that there is not any Person either Publique or Private Or any Action or Office of Regard to Community Family or Alliance that scapes their Pragmatical Scrutiny and Inspection Presb. So far as these Duties are matter of Conscience there is no Doubt but they are of Ecclesiastical Cognisance and further then so they make no Pretension Indep But you must give me leave to tell you then that their Consciences are larger then other Peoples The Old Nonconformist as au Expedient for the settling Ecclesiastical Affairs Page 43. proposes the setting up of Work-Houses for the Poor the Carrying on of the Fishing Trade The taking off of Protections that none may be Imprison'd but according to Law and the Abatement of Taxes The Assembly at Glasgow 1638. passed an Act concerning Salmon Fishing and another about Salt Pans And all This I Warrant ye so far as they concerned Point of Conscience But if you would see what the Consistory calls Conscience in the full Extent we must repair for satisfaction to their Direction and Practises in the matter of Conscience and Excommunication The Kirk proceeds to Excommunication in all Capital Crimes where the Offender that deserv'd to dye is suffer'd to live And in Cases of Fornication Drunkenness Swearing Cursing Sabâ—…ath-Breaking Wanton Words Contempt of the Orders of the Church Oppression of the Poor Deceipt in Buying and Selling by wrong Mete and Measure Presb. Well and what hurt 's in all this Indep None at all But let me proceed They Censure also Excess in Apparel Meat or Drink UNCOMELY GESTURES Contentiousnes without reasonable Cause Chiding Brawling VAINWORDS Every fault that tendeth to the Hurt of a Man's Neighbour or to the Hindrance of the Glory of God Whether by Force or Fraud Word or Deed Manifestly or Secretly Purposely or Ignorantly And the Judgment of the whole is left to the Discretion of the Church So that your very Thoughts are not free The Spiritual Ruler says the Book of Discipline Iudgeth Both Inward Affections and External Actions in respect of Conscience by the Word of God Upon which ground they take upon them to Censure the very SUSPICION of Avarice and Pride Superfluity or Riotousness in Chear or Rayment But upon Dancers Robin Hoods and all Games that brings Loss they have no mercy These particulars are extracted to a syllable out of the most Authentical Records they have to shew for the Warrant of the Scottish Discipline Our Blessed Model But many People perchance will make it a matter of nothing to be Excommunicate upon a Supposition that the Anathema is the uttermost spite of the Censure They never dream of Carâ—…ings Iogges Pillories Shaving their Beards and Cutting half the Hair of their Heads Banishments Pecuniary Muâ—…cts Close Imprisonments and all sorts of Studied Defamations Nay If any man refuse to Subscribe their Confession of Faith Rule of Government and Manner of Worship He is forthwith Excommunicate and upon Remonstrance of a Commissioner from the Presbytery to the Civil Iudg a Warrant granted commanding him to Conform by a Day Certein or to be OUTLAWED If he Conform not within that time his ESTATE MOVE ABLE is FORFEITED and if not within a Year and a Day he Loses his whole REVENUE for his Life After This at the further Instance of the Churches Commissioner Out go Letters of Caption for Apprehending of his Person and Committing him as a Rebel And if he be not to be found These are follow'd with Letters of Inter-Communing forbidding all men either Personally to Confer with him or by Letter or interposed Person to Correspond with him upon Pein of the Inter-Communers being Iudged and Reputed a Rebel of the same Guiltiness As to the General Rule of Excommunication no Person Wife and Family excepted is to have any Communication with the Excommunicate be it in Eating or Drinking Buying or Selling Yea in Saluting or Talking with Him Unless at Commandment or License of the Ministry for his Conversion His Children Begotten and Born after That Sentence not to be admitted to Baptism till of Age to require it Unless the Mother or some special Friends Members of the Kirk Offer and Present the Child Damning the Iniquity and Contempt of the Impenitent There are that do not allow Husbands to accompany with their Wives in the State of Excommuni cation Now upon what has been deliver'd Let any Man Consider the Unchristian Rigor of This Disciplinary Inquisition not only in the Actual Tyranny of it but in the more Miserable Consequences First as it Scandalizes the Gospel and makes the Death of Christ seem to be no Effect by Imposing upon Us such Conditions of Salvation as if the Blessed Angels should descend and Indue Humane shapes they were