Counsells and to labour to understand the minde of God and to set up his Government over Beleevers in the Kingdome of England And whereas you say that many of the people who yet be not in this Church way are possessed with these principles of the Independant way and much looking towards it I say it is pitty they should any longer be led about by the way of the Wildernesse 2. You doe affirme that the mindes of multitudes of Professors in England and especially in the City of London are upon all occasions very apt to fall to any way in Doctrine or discipline that is not commonly received by the Church I answer Indeede the Proverbe is verified upon them The burned child dreads the fire for they have beene so long deceived by your false glosses that now their eyes being a little open the light appeareth very sweete unto them yea although they see men but like trees as the blinde man when his eyes began to be opened who had beene blinde from his birth The third thing which you have laid downe in this Reason is That the Ministers will not be tied from preaching those points in publike nor from speaking of them in private To which I answer I hope they will not indeed for it were their great sinne if they should not declare Gods whole Councell so farre as he hath revealed it unto them But if they would you say the people both men and women are sâ— strangely bold and pragmaticall and so highly conceited of their way as the Kingdome of Christ and the onely way of Christ that out of those principles they would be drawing many of their friendship and kindred and many would say you come unto them I answer that this I hope you count a vertue for it is the property of the Sheepe when they fare well to call their fellowes But Hogges will not doe so The fourth thing to be minded is that you say Liberty the power of government and rule to be in the people are mighty pleasing to flesh and blood especially in meane persons and such as have beene kept under To which I answer that they that have beene kept under have beene kept under by the tyranny of the Man of Sinne This you confesse to be especially the poore upon whom those Taskemasters have laid the greatest burthens Therefore for them to affect liberty is no wonder And whereas you say they would have the power and Rule I answer It is not any power or Rule which is pleasing to the flesh as you speake thinking them to be like those Priests Whose god is their belly whose glory is their shame who minde earthly things but it is the power of Christ which they stand for as they are members of the Churches of Christ to which Churches Christ the King thereof hath given all power in spirituall things And that the Church of Christ consisteth of meane persons is no wonder for wee have learned that the poore receive the Gospell and you know you have granted that it stands with the light and Law of Nature That the liberty power and rule should be in the whole and not in one man or a few so that the power must rest in the body and not in the Officers though the Church be never so poore Now the fifth thing you minde in this Reason is That Tolleration will be made use of to strengthen their way And you also conclude it will be granted that the ablest Ministers could not answer them and therefore were content they should have a Tolleration You doe very well to feare the worst but you had done better if you had armed your selfe against them and answered the Scriptures they bring by Scripture But it is a plaine case you could not do that therfore your feare was just but if you were a wellminded man or a wellmeaning Christian man you should not have feared the comming of the truth to light nor have been afraid of reformation because it would worke to your greater divisions and rents for Christ came not to set peace upon the earth as I have told you before but the seede of the Serpent will be ever playing his part Thus much for your second Reason IN your third Reason you affirme That Tolleration will breed divisions and Schismes disturbing the peace and quiet of Churches and Townes I answer I have told you already we plead for no tolleration that shall disturbe the peace of Churches or Townes Moreover you say it will not onely doe so but it will also breed divisions in families betweene husband and wife brother and brother To which I answer There was a division in the first Family that ever was and brother rose up against brother but Tolleration was not the cause of it but the malice of Sathan in the seed of the Serpent as it hath beene and is now at this day And this is according to Christs words Luke 12. 52 53. which saith That there shall be five in one house two against three and three against two c. and in Matth. 10. 34 35 36. Thinke not saith he that I come to send peace into the earth I came not to send peace but the sword For I am come to set a man at variance against his father and the daughter against her mother and the daughter in Law against her mother in Law and a mans enemies shall be they of his owne household and moreover in Luke 21. 16. our Saviour doth declare that we shall be betrayed both by parents and brethren and kinssolkes and friends Now if Christ may be said to be the Author of evill then you may say that Toleration of true Religion is the cause of this division Againe you say O how this will occasion disobedience To this your Lamentation I answer O that you would remember the rule * that every servant ought to count his Master worthy of all honour and in the judgement of charitie beleeve that persons professing the Gospel will learne that lesson Next you say O! how will this take away that power authority which God hath given to Husbands Fathers and Masters over wives children and servants To this I answer O! that you would consider the text in 1 Cor. 7. which plainly declares that the wife may be a beleever the husband an unbeleever but if you have considered this text I pray you tell me what authority this unbeleeving husband hath over the conscience of his beleeving wife It is true he hath authority over her in bodily and civill respects but not to be a Lord over her conscience and the like may be said of fathers and masters and it is the very same authority which the Soveraigne hath over all his subjects therfore it must needes reach to families for it is granted that the King hath power according to the Law over the bodies goods and lives of all his subjects yet it is Christ the King of Kings that reigneth over their consciences and thus you may see it taketh away no authority which
very suggestion of Sathan into the hearts of our first Parents for they having a desire of some thing more then was warranted by God tooke unto them the forbidden fruit as you would have the Lords Churches to doe when you say they must take some others besides these Churches and Officers and that to interpose authoritatively and these something else you make to be Apostles Evangelists and Elders of other Churches whereas you confessed before that these are the furniture of Christs Kingdome and wee know their authoritie was limitted within the bounds of the Word of God as first If any of them would be greater he must be servant to all Secondly they were forbidden to be Lords over Gods heritage Thirdly they were commanded to teach the people to observe onely those things which Christ had commanded them And whereas you seeme to affirme that these Offices were extraordinary and ceased and yet the Churches have still neede of them You seeme to contradict your selfe and would faine cure it againe in that some other way which you say you have to supply the want of them but this other way you have not yet made known You presuppose it may be by some Sinods and Councels to make a conjunction of the whole If you meane such a Counsell as is mentioned Acts 15. 4. 22 consisting of Apostles and Elders with the whole Church then you have said no more than you have said before and that which we grant for this is still the furniture of the Kingdome but if you intend that your Counsell should consist of an armie of Arch-Bishops Diocesan Bishops Deanes Suffragans with the rest of that rabble which be for their titles names of blasphemy and such as were bred in the smoake of the pit I deny that any of these be ordained of God for they have no footing in his word therefore indeede these are a part of the fruit of the forbidden Tree which the Churches of God have taken and eaten and this seeking out inventions of their owne after that God made them righteous hath brought them into a state of Apostasie even as Ieroboams high places and Calves did the people of Israel which may plainely appeare by the Churches of Asia If these be that some other supply which you meane and have produced to helpe the Churches and Cities of God as you call them to determine for those Churches and Cities the cases of Doctrine and Discipline in stead of those many Ministers which you conceive them now to want it tends to make as they have now done a conjunction not onely of all the Churches professing one faith into one body but also of all the Armies of the Man of Sinne and so to confound the Church and the world together which the Ministers of the Gospell ought to divide by separating the precious from the vile And whereas you affirme The Independent Congregations now have but few Ministers It is very true for indeede they are but a few people and a few hands will feede a few mouths sufficiently if God provide meat But whereas you affirme That those Congregations may have no Officer at all by their owne grounds and yet be independent I thinke they conceive by those grounds the Office onely of Pastor and Teacher but not that the Church of God hath need at any time of the helpe of any other then God hath given and set in his Church which be all the Officers that are before mentioned as Apostles Prophets Evangelists Pastors and Teachers and to have recourse to any for counsell helpe or assistance either of Church or Ministry which is not of Christs owne were very ridiculous For it is recorded Ephe. 4. 11. 12. That he gave these for the gathering together of the Saints for the worke of the Ministry and for the edification of the body of Christ being so gathered The time they must continue is till all the Saints be in the unitie of faith The reason wherefore they were given was to keepe people from being tossed too and fro with every winde of Doctrine And these are they by whom all the body is coupled and knit together by every joynt for the furniture thereof according to the effectuall power which is in the measure of every part and receiveth increase of the body unto the edifying of it selfe in love And this is according to the promise that Christ made Matth. 28. 19. 20. to be with his Ministers in teaching his people to the end of the world And thus you may see Mr. Edwards you cannot gather from our owne words that we have neede of the helpe of any other Churches or Ministers to interpose as you unjustly affirme as it may plainely appeare by Mr. Robinsons owne words in the Justification of the Separation pag. 121. 122. These are his words It is the Stewards duty to make provision for the family but what if he neglect this duty in the Masters absence Must the whole family starve yea and the wife also Or is not some other of the family best able to be employed for the present necessity The like he saith concerning the government of a Ship of an Armie and of Common wealths alluding to the Church of Christ And further expresseth that as a private Citizen may become a Magistrate so a private member may become a Minister for an action of necessity to be performed by the consent of the rest c. Therefore it appeares plainely by all that hath binsaid that the Churches of Christ may be truely constituted according to the Scripture and subsist a certaine time without Pastor and Teacher and enjoy the power of Christ amongst themselves having no dependancie upon any other Church or Churches which shall claime Authority or superiority over them And thus much for your first Reason NOw in your second Reason which runneth upon the calling of the Ministry you affirme That the government of the Independent Congregations is not of divine institution Which I utterly denie and will prove it by disproveing the following Instances by which you affirme to prove it Whereas you affirme That their Independencie forces them to have Ministers without Ordination I Answer it is a plaine case by the foregoing Answer to your first Reason that you speake untruely for their practise is there made knowne to be otherwise and if you will still affirme that they have not power so to practise you will thereby deny the truth of the Scriptures for the Apostles were commanded to teach the Churches to observe all things whatsoever Christ had commanded them But Christ commanded the Apostles to ordaine Elders in every Church by election therefore the Apostles taught the Churches to ordaine Elders by Election also And whereas you bid us produce one instance if we can for an ordinary Officer to be made without Ordination it is needlesse for we whom you call Independant strive for no such thing as you have proved it plainely out of Mr. Robinsons Booke Apol. Chap.
all his commandements and who hath greater authority upon the earth then they that are visible Saints and what makes men visible Saints if not the manifestation of their obedience to God the Father and Christ his sonne in the practise of all his Ordinances and not to have some other Presbyters present with them to assist them as you affirme for by these other Presbyters I know not yet who you meane And whereas you say that the Church may be led into errours or kept in a low estate by unfit Pastors and Elders I answer It is a cleare truth as wofull experience teacheth us who live here in the Land of England And whereas you affirme that visible Saints cannot ordaine Officers because they have no gifts of prayer I Answer Here you make prayer the Ordination of Ministers And whereas you say they are not able to conceive prayer Here you give the holy Ghost the lie for Beleevers have received the Spirit of adoption to cry Abba Father But say you they cannot conceive prayer according to the action in boâ—â— Here you would seeme to make beleevers which have the Spirit of God to leade them into all truths more voide of common reason then men that have but gifts of nature Againe you say they have not gifts to make publike exhortation and admonition To which I answer If they had first knowledge to feele the want of a Pastor and also divers able men out of whom to elect and ordaine a Pastor then they out of whom this person is chosen are able to exhort and to admonish for he that hath not the gift of teaching may have the gift of exhortation againe the man that undertaketh to teach others ought to be taught by God and likewise to be able by sound Doctrine to withstand the Gainesayers but a man may give good exhortations and that publikely that is not able to withstand the Gainesayers by â—ound Doctrine By this you may see the Church of God can never be without some Ministers except it be according to that spoken by Zachaâ—iah in the day of very small things indeede when God shall take away their Ministers by death prison or exile for seeing the Churches were planted by Ministers of Gods owne ordaining therefore they were not without Ministers in the very beginning and still the Churches are planted by the Ministeriall power of the Lord Jesus which cannot be exercised without fit instruments Yet that they must want the word preached or Sacraments administred till they have Pastors and Teacher in Office is yet to be proved but that page of Mr. Robinsons which hath beene alledged before is sufficient for this present purpose against you even to prove that the family must not be unprovided for either for the absence or neglect of a Steward But now you seeme to insinuate an affirmation or a supposition I cannot well tell whether That a ruleing Elder may be destitute of the guift of discering and seeme to imply that if he be destitute then all the Church must be destitute if there be no more Officers then be Here you would faine make the ruling Elders the eyes of the Church and then all the rest of the body must be blinde and so unfit to have any hand in election and also voide of the Spirit of Grace to discerne the gifts by though it hath beene proved unto you before that she is the greatest of all having the Spirit of God to leade her into all truth being the Spouse of Christ and endowed with all his riches gifts and donations And thus you still deny the Authority ability of the Church giving to the persons in office all power and deserning But this is indeede according to your practise here in England but not according to the minde and Spirit of God And for the neighbour Churches Counsell I deny not but that it may be imbraced and the Saints have cause to praise God for any helpes of Gods ordaining But if they want the helpe of a neighbour Church to Counsell them or neighbour Ministers to direct them yet if they be a Church of Jesus Christ they have as hath beene said before power among themselves to elect and ordaine their owne Officers as also the Spirit of discerning whereby to try their gifts and yet be farre from falling into that evill which they complaine against in the Episcopacie namely for one man to have the sole power of Ordination By all these particulars you may clearely see all your pretended proofes and former assertions disproved as I promised you in the entrance of this my answer to your second Reason So that these two first Reasons being as I conceive the greatest Champions which you have sent out in this skirmage are now both slaine and made voide of all the life that ever was in them for they were made most of suppositions and of things that appeared unto you by likelihood without any ground from the Scriptures and of some other thing than Gods Word allowed and of some triviall affirmations which were not grounded upon any truth of Gods Word Now these two being thus turned aside by one of the meanest of all the Army of Jesus Christ you may justly feare that all the rest of your souldiers will run away wounded IN your third Reason You say it is not to be thought that Christ would institute such a Government of his Church which affords no helpe nor allowes no way or remedy for innocent persons that are wronged Which thing I grant to be very true but touching the means and helpes which you pleade for that is some other Synods to appeale unto I tell you I know not what Synods you meane But this I affirme that there are no larger Synods to be kept to settle Church differences then the comming together of the Ministers and Brethren as it is mentioned in the 15th of the Acts which I have granted you in my Answers to your former Reasons And whereas you strive for appeales I Answer It is the rule of Christ that if one brother doe trespasse against another and if the brother offending will not be reclaimed by the private admonition of the brother offended he is to be admonished by one or two other brethren with him but if he will not heare them the brother offended is to tell the Church and if he will not heare the Church then he is not to be accounted a brother but as a Heathen man and a Publican if not as a brother then out of the fellowship then if the wrong be any personall injury as oppression or fraud or any other sinne of these natures the Law is open where he may appeale for Justice to the Magistrate in any part of the Kingdome where-ever he liveth but if it be a matter of scandall as if hee should be a drunkard or incontinent or the like then he hath sufficient remedy when such a one is cast out of his society By this you may see
peace Rom. 14. 19. So Phil. 4. 8. And you conclude that Synods aâ—e found to be for edification peace and order But you have brought no Scripture yet that proveth it and I know all Scripture is against it therefore I deny it And as for the Scriptures alleadged as you say by Amesius they are such as were spoken to particular Congregations and in the particular Congregation of Colosse Paul beheld a comely order notwithstanding there were no Synod consisting of any but onely the members and Ministers of that Congregation Col. 2. 5. And as for commands which you say are some generall and others particular Here you labour by evasions to turne away the truth for you your selfe know that every particular command reacheth not to the generall though a generall command reach to every particular Now if you can shew us in the Scriptures any generall command that all the Churches should or an example that all the Churches did gather a Councell of some Ministers out of every particular Congregation to make Decrees oâ— Lawes to impose upon the whole then you will speake speake something to the purpose but as yet you have not spoken one word that proveth any such thing And whereas you alleadge that Scripture That the Spirits of the Prophets must be subject to the Prophets 1 Cor. 14. 32. I Answer That that is given to particular Congregations and therefore not to all in a Province or Nation and so not to Synods And Paul never sought to winne credit nor obedience to Orders established by himselfe as you say for he never made any other Orders nor taught the people any other thing than what he had received of the Lord Jesus as it is plaine in 1 Cor. 11. Be ye followers of me saith he as I am of Christ and in the 23. verse of the same Chapter I have received of the Lord saith he that which I have delivered unto you Paul also writes unto these Corinthians whom he had converted unto the faith to be followers of him 1 Cor. 4. â—6 in ver. 17. he sheweth them that therefore he sent Timothy unto them to the end that Timothy should put them in remembrance of Pauls wayes in Christ as Paul had taught every where in every Church Here you may see Paul brings not the Example of the Synod before them nor layes upon them any Decree or Command to practise otherwise than he himselfe had learned in Christ yet I hope you will not deny but that this Church spoken of was a Church of Christ as well as the Church of Colosse Now the next thing to be considered is that which you alleadge of Pauls submission to the practise of what was agreed upon by the common consent of Iames and the rest of the Elders Acts 21. from 18. to 27. The Reason why they counselled Paul to doe the thing was because of the information that the Jewes had then against Paul that he taught the people to forsake Moses Acts 21. 21. Now I hope you will not deny but that this was a false affirmation The thing wherein they conceived he transgressed was by bringing in Trophimus an Ephesian as they thought into the Temple because they saw him with him in the citie This was but their supposition as it appeares in the 29 verse of this Chapter Now what the Elders counselled Paul to doe in respect of giving offence to the Jewes was no injunction to any to follow the same example except it were in the same case Now Paul himselfe was a Jew and taught all men that Christ was come to fulfill the Law and not to destroy the Law therefore he condescended to circumcise Timothy because his mother was a Jew and the Jewes knew his father was a Grecian But Titus a Grecian was not compelled to be circumcised yea though there were false brethren crastily crept in to spy out their liberty Paul gave not place to them no not for an houre Gal 2. 3 4. 5. Now the things that the Elders counselled Paul to doe was to purifie himselfe with them that had a vow and to contribute with them and the reason wherefore they counselled Paul to doe this was that it might appeare to the Jewes that Paul was a Jew and not an uncircumcised person for the Jewes knew that it was a sinfull thing to bring into the Temple any uncircumcised person in heart or flesh Ezek. 44. 7. Now Paul in all this did nothing but what was commanded in the Law as purifications and vowes c. Moreover this counsell of Iames and the Elders unto Paul was not generall to the beleeving Jewes neither was it generally or particularly to the Gentiles but particularly to Paul and the rest with him because of the false report which the Jewes had received of him And as this Counsell was not generall so it was not perpetuall but served to put an honorable end to the Law which Christ came to fulfill and not to destroy By all this it appeares it maketh nothing for any counsell that you plead for to establish any unwritten verities for such counsels are the counsels of darkenesse because they are not according to the Law and the Testimony it appeares there is no light in them therefore they are not of authoritie to bind any particular member of the Church much lesse the generall as you say they are But seeing you confesse that no Synod can say It seemeth good unto the holy Ghost and to us it plainely appeares that your counsels presume without the counsell of the holy Ghost But you may see that the Church of Ierusalem did nothing without the counsell of the Spirit neither determined of any thing that was not written in the Scripture So the Churches of God now ought to presume to do nothing but what the written Word allowes them being taught the true meaning thereof by the Spirit that God hath given them Moreover the counsell of Ierusalem imposed nothing upon the Gentiles for a Law but counselled them to abstaine from some necessary things which would be either offensive to the Iewes or sinfull in themselves Acts 15. 29. 20. 28. 29. Now seeing the Church of Ierusalem hath done nothing but by he counsell of the written word in forbidding things sinfull in themselves and offensive to their brethren it appeares to be plainely against your Synods and dependencie in government which in cases difficult doe establish things which have no footing in Gods word neither have they by your owne confession in their Counsels any one who is immediatly and infallibly imspired by the Spirit and able of himselfe to satisfie the controversie they being by your owne confession inferiour to Paul and Barnabas And Paul and Barnabas might teach nothing but what was taught in the Law and the Prophets And therefore by this it appeares you have not grounded any affirmation or supposition upon Gods word for the proving either of your Synods or dependencie Thus much for your fifth Reason IN your
to pray for the Kingdome of God to come we are not to limit it to this that Christ may come to rule in us onely but that-he may rule as a King in the heart of all his chosen Neither ought wee alone to acknowledge praises but wee ought to desire that prayses to God may be acknowledged by others also and that they may grant the Kingdome and power and glory to be his not that he should be a King onely to rule in the hearts of men but also that he may rule and governe the actions of the bodies of men in his outward worship as we are commanded to glorifie God with our bodies and soules and the reason is because they are his 1 Cor. 6. 20. Now if our bodies and soules be Gods then it must needs be granted that it is in spirituall worship for in all civill things it hath beene acknowledged already that both bodies and lives are our soveraigne Lord the Kings in whose Land we dwell Now if there were any forme of prayer for men to bind themselves unto it would have beene shewed either in this Scripture or in some other which thing you have not yet proved That they were not tied to this forme of words is plaine by another Evangelist which doth not use the same words but addeth some and leaveth out other some and also the whole forme of thankesgiving is left out by Luke Luke 11. 2. 3. 4. Compared with Matth. 6. 9. and to seeke the helpe of any booke but the Bible to teach men to pray is to disable God which hath promised to give Beleevers his Spirit whereby they shall cry Abba Father c and that that Spirit should leade them into all truth and bring all things to their remembrance d Therefore a forme of prayer for men to tie themselves unto cannot be sufficient and pleasing to God though it were never imposed by any Thirdly you lay another slander upon us as though we should affirme that Christian Princes and Magistrates who are defenders of the Faith have no more to doe in and about the Church then Heathen Princes This is not true for we know that Christian Princes and Magistrates ought to be members of Christs Church and so being they may be Officers in the Church And if they be Defenders of the Faith they be such as defend the pure worship of God manifested in his Word as also the true professors thereof and that against all tyrannicall power that shall attempt to suppresse either it or them as the good Kings of Judah and Israel did by slaying the Servants and Prophets of Baal who had slaine the Lords people But Heathen Kings cannot be said to be members of the Church of Christ before they know Christ and then they become Christian Kings Therefore to vent upon all occasions such principles as you see wee hold and maintaine is not as you say dangerous and insufferable neither are the people But you say further that the people for a great part of them are heady and refractory and proud and bitter and scornfull and dispisers of authoritie and that they will not suffer publike prayers to be prayed but that by their gesture and threatning of the Ministers they have laboured to hinder the use of them And these people I gather from your owne words are the professors in England and especially in the city of London and it is very like to be so because they were there at the time of your service for neither the Separates nor Semiseparates as you call them use to be there at the time of your service for ought I know and these Professors you have also called Idle busibodies tatlers also as it is said 1 Tim. 5. 13. very wanton in their wits say you affecting novelties in Religion and liking of points that are not established nor commonly held and these you say are many of the professors * And in your second Reason against Toleration Pag. 24. you say that the mindes of multitudes of the Professors in England and especially in this citie are upon all occasions very apt to fall to any way in Doctrine or Discipline that is not commonly received by the Church c. But I tel you you ought not to blame any for withstanding any thing in Gods worship which is not grounded in his Word Neither if the whole body of the worship there tendred be the invention of man ought any of them to be blamed for opposing such a worship because it is according to their Protestation Yet I justifie none that will oppose disorderly as either by casting up of hats or threatning the Minister or any the like unseemely behaviour for I judge it better for them to depart in peace if they have not faith in the action performed But methinkes Mr. Edwards you have foulely missed it in that you have thus vilified your brethren to call them by the names of those mockers which Paul testified should come in the last time that should be heady and high minded and proud boasters and dispisers of authority for such as these have not the power of godlinesse and by this you make your Church a foule Church and defile shrewdly your owne nest and make it appeare to all men that you live in a Cage of uncleane birds therefore you are commanded from such to turne aside * if the feare of God be in your heart Moreover You say you feare they will not tolerate the Government established by the Ecclesiasticall and civill Lawes and you would faine father the cause of this your feare upon Separates and Independancie whereas you cannot be so ignorant but that you must know that the government established by Law may stand without the leave of Separates for they have neither power to give toleration nor to prohibit toleration for or against any thing But you say you would rather pray against toleration than prophesie of the wofull effeâ—ts of it I answer if you can make such a prayer in a time acceptable then sometimes such prayers will be accepted which are not grounded upon Gods Word But of the wofullest effects of toleration you have prophesied already in that you say they will withstand your Doctrine and your dues * and that will be a wofull effect indeede when you shall be driven to cry out Alas alas that great city Babylon for in one houre is so great wealth come to desolation Thus much for your Seventh Reason IN your Eight Reason you affirme That these Independant men where they have power as in New-England will not tolerate any Churches or Government but in their owne way In using the word these you carry the matter so darkely that I know not whom you meane for you have named none But you seeme to say they be men that have power in New England I answer Indeede it may happen to be so That there may be some men there that take upon them authority to binde mens consciences